Indian Army Armored Vehicles

abingdonboy

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One of the more refined looking domesticically produced armourded vehicles. Would be a good alternative to the TATA LATCs being procured in sizeable numbers by police forces across India.
Good move, If inducted in IA this will ease up the logistics..
This vehicle is primarily aimed at CAPFs and state police units- not IA.
 

Kunal Biswas

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If you read my post again, I used the word 'If' ..
 

abingdonboy

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If you read my post again, I used the word 'If' ..
Fair enough mate- but I don't think the IA should be sinking too much of their cash into vehilces that have no utility in war (which is the IA's bread and butter). I think you can see a real trend of the IA trying to hand over such CT duties to the civilian law enforcement agencies who are the ones that are buying such vehicles. The fact that the CAPFs seem to be doing a pretty good job in Op Greenhunt has surely eraised a few eyebrows in the IA top brass. And as border infiltration ceases the IA can no longer claim they are in JK to fight an external enemy thus keeping true to their creed of protecting India from external threats.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Firstly I am sure that you meant CRPF..

There are few questions comes to mind reading your comment :

1. How you are sure it has no Utility ?
2. What is ' IA bread and Butter ' and that ?
3. What is your understanding of IA giving responsibilities to Paramilitary or working jointly with them ?
4. IA is not interested in Naxal insurgency, then why IA top brass 'surely' raise eyebrows ? Is some one told you so ?
5. How much you know about J&K to say so about this and that 'claim ' ?

I find that you have no clues on lots of things but if no please do ask such kind of talk only spread disinformation about force, Which leaves is Ugly impression..

Fair enough mate- but I don't think the IA should be sinking too much of their cash into vehilces that have no utility in war (which is the IA's bread and butter). I think you can see a real trend of the IA trying to hand over such CT duties to the civilian law enforcement agencies who are the ones that are buying such vehicles. The fact that the CAPFs seem to be doing a pretty good job in Op Greenhunt has surely eraised a few eyebrows in the IA top brass. And as border infiltration ceases the IA can no longer claim they are in JK to fight an external enemy thus keeping true to their creed of protecting India from external threats.
 

abingdonboy

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Firstly I am sure that you meant CRPF..

There are few questions comes to mind reading your comment :

1. How you are sure it has no Utility ?
2. What is ' IA bread and Butter ' and that ?
3. What is your understanding of IA giving responsibilities to Paramilitary or working jointly with them ?
4. IA is not interested in Naxal insurgency, then why IA top brass 'surely' raise eyebrows ? Is some one told you so ?
5. How much you know about J&K to say so about this and that 'claim ' ?

I find that you have no clues on lots of things but if no please do ask such kind of talk only spread disinformation about force, Which leaves is Ugly impression..
Well-

1. In the sense that during a conventional war (which is what the IA trains for) these kind of vehiles have very little utilty when facing armored formations or conventional military. These vehicles are designed for UNCONVENTIONAL threats and a very specific kind of conflict that is very diffferent to what the IA woul face in an all out war. These sorts of vehicles having little utilty in war is an established fact- the US recognises this with their MRAPs, they have said as much (that these vehicles are not useful to them outside of a CT enviroment). This is why they are either leaving these vehciles behind for local forces or selling them off dirt cheap to freindly nations like SK.


2. IA's "bread and butter" like any army in the world is fighting a conventional war. That is not to say the IA is not extremely adaptable or very succesful in CT ops but armies are desgned to fight conventional wars and the IA is no different. That is why it buys tanks, APCs, bridge layers etc


3. I understand that over time the CAPFs/local police units have been takin over certain duties from the IA in NE and JK.


4. The IA is not interested because the CAPFs/local police have been able to contain the Naxal movement and are now counter-attacking. It is not for the IA to say what it is interested in or not- that is for the civil establishment. If the IA was ordered into fight the Naxals tommorow you better belive they'd do it! What I was trying to say with the "raised eybrows" bit was that the fact that, despite all the calls for the IA to step in by the media, the CAPFs and local police have been increasingly succesful in battling the Naxal menace-with significant IA assitance in the form of training that is. As such this may "raise eybrows" because it can show that CAPFs/local security forces have the capacity to fight such conflicts without the IA heving to put boots on the ground. I am told that this has intrigued the IA as in the past the CAPFs were seen as purely "lathi forces" (except a few like BSF). But they have proven that with the right training and the right kit and the righ support they can fight intense insurgencies effectively.


5. Admittdely I don't know a huge amount about JK except some anecdotal evidenc eand what I can find out from the media. But any sane person can see the situation is improving in JK for many reasons (including in no small part the blood,sweat and tears of the fear-less IA). The situation is still far from ideal but it is improving by all accounts.

And btw I have nothing but respect for the IA.


And I admit I don't know everything but I am learning and I always try my best to be as accurate and truthful as possible. I apoligise if I offeneded you in any way mate.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Well-

1. In the sense that during a conventional war (which is what the IA trains for) these kind of vehiles have very little utilty when facing armored formations or conventional military. These vehicles are designed for UNCONVENTIONAL threats and a very specific kind of conflict that is very diffferent to what the IA woul face in an all out war.
India and Indian army are and still fighting unconventionally since independence, this is something very commonly known to mention..

Indian army have dedicated training center for fighting unconventional warfare, Its details is on utube as you make nice vids on our forces you must see those..

As i give you the possible imaginable picture of the situation, based on that i made that comment..

And i have no idea what US does dont see them dont know them..


2. IA's "bread and butter" like any army in the world is fighting a conventional war. That is not to say the IA is not extremely adaptable or very succesful in CT ops but armies are desgned to fight conventional wars and the IA is no different. That is why it buys tanks, APCs, bridge layers etc
1. IA is more successful counter terrorism than its western counterparts..
2. IA is fighting all out both unconventional as well as conventional wars even right now..

Based on above points, World 2nd largest Army needs all it can get to fight a non stop wars on two fronts..

3. I understand that over time the CAPFs/local police units have been takin over certain duties from the IA in NE and JK.
Firstly its not CAPF, Its CRPF..

That is because they have to be, Its not Army job there, Army did its homework eradicating terrorist and its sympathizers once its done the its upto police and Paramilitary to keep out Terrorist and terrorist influence getting in, But Army in J&K have to remain coz of POK, And that is why RR is formed..

4. The IA is not interested because the CAPFs/local police have been able to contain the Naxal movement and are now counter-attacking. It is not for the IA to say what it is interested in or not- that is for the civil establishment. If the IA was ordered into fight the Naxals tommorow you better belive they'd do it! What I was trying to say with the "raised eybrows" bit was that the fact that, despite all the calls for the IA to step in by the media, the CAPFs and local police have been increasingly succesful in battling the Naxal menace-with significant IA assitance in the form of training that is. As such this may "raise eybrows" because it can show that CAPFs/local security forces have the capacity to fight such conflicts without the IA heving to put boots on the ground. I am told that this has intrigued the IA as in the past the CAPFs were seen as purely "lathi forces" (except a few like BSF). But they have proven that with the right training and the right kit and the righ support they can fight intense insurgencies effectively.
Who ever told you so, Is dead wrong or wherever you read it from..

IA is not interested coz we see them our own and this is internal issue needed to be handled by paramilitary forces not Army, Army was told to do so but refused, As far as Paramilitary progress they have done little compare to what Army able to do in J&k, Indian army trains CRPF on first place they have almost zero experience in such environment compare to IA, they are just taking there first steps and still learning what IA did in early 80s..

About the kit and tactical stuff, Good for them we asked in late 90s and still we dont have but we do with what we have..


Admittedly I don't know a huge amount about JK except some anecdotal evidenc eand what I can find out from the media.The situation is still far from ideal but it is improving by all accounts.

I admit I don't know everything but I am learning and I always try my best to be as accurate and truthful as possible. I apoligise if I offeneded you in any way mate.
Media information is good for the basic image and idea dont fall for 100% as it show what good for there channel ratings..
You dont know, Do ask but dont get to quick conclusion which is not pleasant at all..
 

abingdonboy

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India and Indian army are and still fighting unconventionally since independence, this is something very commonly known to mention..

Indian army have dedicated training center for fighting unconventional warfare, Its details is on utube as you make nice vids on our forces you must see those..

As i give you the possible imaginable picture of the situation, based on that i made that comment..

And i have no idea what US does dont see them dont know them..




1. IA is more successful counter terrorism than its western counterparts..
2. IA is fighting all out both unconventional as well as conventional wars even right now..

Based on above points, World 2nd largest Army needs all it can get to fight a non stop wars on two fronts..
I am very much aware of this. I agree the IA has the most experience of any army in the world when it comes to CT. And areguably some of the finest CT shcools in the world like CIJWS.

Firstly its not CAPF, Its CRPF..
.
By CAPF I MEAN CAPF, as in Central Armed Police Forces, CAPFs (formaly called Para-militaries). And I use this term because it is not just the CRPF engaged in Op Green hunt but numerous CAPFs like SSB and BSF so it is easier to just label the entire group CAPFs.

Central Armed Police Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do ask but dont get to quick conclusion which is not pleasant at all..

Fair enough but I don't know what unpleasant conclusion you think I have painted.


I am not trying to detract in any way from the IA's achivements-they speak for themselves. The IA is in a unique situation that much is clear. But it is clear in an ideal world the IA would not want to be doing CT work, rather train for conventional missions. The role it is playing in NE and JK is one that was forced upon them, they have risen to the task and excelled that is clear for all to see.
 

abingdonboy

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And sir, I may not be as experienced as you but I am no idiot, I do try to make educated and informed conclusions based on research and reason. Of course I am prone to being wrong but I would appreciate you doing the courtesy of educating rather than attacking me. And I feel I am free to have an opinion.

You are one of the members whom I respect here the most and I feel there is much I can learn from you and much we can talk about together.
 

Kunal Biswas

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You cannot separate conventional warfare from unconventional warfare One have to know the both and train hard for it, Something IA is good at from very beginning..

I dont think anyone should say it has been 'forced' in both case the cause is from outside of India not pure domestic issue..

I am not trying to detract in any way from the IA's achivements-they speak for themselves. The IA is in a unique situation that much is clear. But it is clear in an ideal world the IA would not want to be doing CT work, rather train for conventional missions. The role it is playing in NE and JK is one that was forced upon them, they have risen to the task and excelled that is clear for all to see.
 

abingdonboy

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You cannot separate conventional warfare from unconventional warfare One have to know the both and train hard for it, Something IA is good at from very beginning..

I dont think anyone should say it has been 'forced' in both case the cause is from outside of India not pure domestic issue..
"Forced" in the sense it was responding to external threats ie Pakistan. The IA went in because in reaction. Their hand was forced in this sense.
 

Kunal Biswas

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And sir, I may not be as experienced as you but I am no idiot, I do try to make educated and informed conclusions based on research and reason. Of course I am prone to being wrong but I would appreciate you doing the courtesy of educating rather than attacking me. And I feel I am free to have an opinion.

You are one of the members whom I respect here the most and I feel there is much I can learn from you and much we can talk about together.
I think we had a good discussion & I was not attacking you but your comments, Which i found offensive..

Glad if you absorb what i was trying to tell..

"Forced" in the sense it was responding to external threats ie Pakistan. The IA went in because in reaction. Their hand was forced in this sense.
In that sense its true..
 

JBH22

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Correct me if I'm wrong it appears to be Good truck for riot control unit not a real MRAP, i guess the Mahindra is the one to look forward.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Its a Simple bullet proof Vehicle..

Correct me if I'm wrong it appears to be Good truck for riot control unit not a real MRAP, i guess the Mahindra is the one to look forward.
 

bhramos

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it looks like updated version of already existing vehicle of Army version used in J&K .....
 

AshutoshNSingh

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Ukraine plans to sell India 100 BTR-4 | idrw.org

Ukraine plans to sell India 100 BTR-4

Ukraine plans to sell India 100BTR-4 with an Indian companypartner Shrilakshmi Defence Solutions Ltd. . Bronetrnapsotery designed for the needs of the armed forces to provide special operations under obedinennyh UN forces. Note, currently Ukraine is seeking totake a leading position in the global market of light armored vehicles. This was said Defense Minister Dmitry Salamatin. The basis for leadership of Ukraine has become the new BTR-4E, which from now enters the Ukrainian troops.It is designed "Kharkiv Machine Building Design Bureau of the AA Morozov. "
The machine is equipped witha 30-mm automatic cannon ZTM-1 of Kamenetz-Podolsk factory precision mechanics, anti-tank missile system Kyiv Design Bureau "Luch" grenadeKBA-117 KB "Armament" gun Kiev plant "Mayak". Presented arms merged into a single firecontrol system, created as Ukrainian developers.
According to the Ministry of Defence, the BTR-4E is available on the world market. So, the car is already purchasing a number of countries in the Middle East. The Ministry of Defence expects that in the future, and other countries will be interested in the BTR-4E. To meet the global demand for such equipment Ministry plansto let bids in different versions and trim levels, allowing it to be a universal platform. According to analysts, the global market forlight armored vehicles now stands at more than $ 10 billion. However, none of the Ukrainian company is not included in the twenty largest manufacturers of armored vehicles. Because the implementation of the expansion of Ukrainian designto the world market is very competitive due to the already busy market. Currently, Ukraine has agreed to supply its technology to Ethiopia (delivery in 2011, 200 modernized T-72), Thailand (supply of 50 tanks "Hold "and 121 BTR-3E1), Kazakhstan (supply 100 BTR-4), Kuwait (awaiting a political decision on the purchase of Ukrainian BTR-4), India, China, Algeria, Iraq.
 
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