India Pakistan Nuke Scenario - NFU Policy - Massive Retaliation & Possible War Scenarios

[Kshatriya87]

If India and Pakistan fought a war detonating 100 nuclear warheads (around half of their combined arsenal), each equivalent to a 15-kiloton Hiroshima bomb, more than 21 million people will be directly killed, about half the world’s protective ozone layer would be destroyed, and a “nuclear winter” would cripple the monsoons and agriculture worldwide.

As the Indian Army considers armed options, and a member of Parliament of the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party urges a nuclear attack and the Pakistan defence minister threatens to “annihilate” India in return, these projections, made by researchers from three US universities in 2007, are a reminder of the costs of nuclear war.


Visualisation by nucleardarkness.org based on study by researchers from Rutgers University, University of Colorado-Boulder and University of California, Los Angeles
BJP Rajya Sabha MP Subramanian Swamy said on September 23 that if 100 million Indians died in a Pakistani nuclear attack, India’s retaliation would wipe out Pakistan.
But the real costs would be higher and not just in India and Pakistan, where the first 21 million people – half the death toll of World War II – would perish within the first week from blast effects, burns and acute radiation, according to the 2007 study by researchers from Rutgers University, University of Colorado-Boulder and University of California, Los Angeles, all in the USA.

This death toll would be 2,221 times the number of civilians and security forces killed by terrorists in India over nine years to 2015, according to an IndiaSpend analysis of South Asia Terrorism Portal data.

Another two billion people worldwide would face risks of severe starvation due to the climatic effects of the nuclear-weapon use in the subcontinent, according to this 2013 assessment by the International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War, a global federation of physicians.

Pakistan has an estimated 110 to 130 nuclear warheads as of 2015 – an increase from an estimated 90 to 110 warheads in 2011 – according to this report from the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, a global disarmament advocacy. India is estimated to have 110 to 120 nuclear warheads.

However, he cautioned: “The fallout of the nuclear attacks on Lahore and Karachi, for instance, would not just be restricted to the Pakistani territory, and depending on the wind directions, can affect both Indian and Afghan border territories.”

This article first appeared on IndiaSpend, a data-driven and public-interest journalism non-profit.

What BS.......!!!!!!!!

The USA & Russia conducted thousands of tests back to back during the cold war. In Nevada itself more than a thousand nukes were detonated. Where is the damage to Ozone layer? Where is the fall out? Where is the starvation?

These are all just scare tactics.

 

[Butter Chicken]

Don't forget Soviet mega nuke 50 MT Tsar Bomba

 

[Kshatriya87]

Pakistan calls for nuclear restraint, conventional forces balance for South Asia peace


Look who's shitting their pants now that rumors are coming in about India thinking of rejecting no first use policy.

Funny thing is, a country which refuses to sign the no first use policy is asking for nuclear restraint.

Why doesn't pakistanis realise how illogical and ignorant it sounds when they talk about conventional forces balance? Looking at the sheer geography, and multiple threats, India has to have a greater conventional force than Pakistan. Just because of their fears, we can't reduce our forces.

 

[lcafanboy]

Pakistan calls for nuclear restraint, conventional forces balance for South Asia peace


Look who's shitting their pants now that rumors are coming in about India thinking of rejecting no first use policy.

Funny thing is, a country which refuses to sign the no first use policy is asking for nuclear restraint.

No doubt, their weekly nuclear weapons threat has completely stopped. Every other day they used to threaten that India should not forget Pakistan is "atami quvat".

 

[mayfair]

Something has changed behind the scenes as @lcafanboy pointed out above.

Pakistan's weekly bluster of India naa bhoole ke Pakistan waahid muslamaan mulk hai jo ke aitami kuwwat hai

has now become a weekly dose of

To the best of my knowledge, India has not announced any major shifts in our nuclear doctrine, nor have we used issued new threats- at least publicly.

What has got Pakistan's goat?

 

[lcafanboy]

Something has changed behind the scenes as @lcafanboy pointed out above.

Pakistan's weekly bluster of India naa bhoole ke Pakistan waahid muslamaan mulk hai jo ke aitami kuwwat hai

has now become a weekly dose of

To the best of my knowledge, India has not announced any major shifts in our nuclear doctrine, nor have we used issued new threats- at least publicly.

What has got Pakistan's goat?

Their nuclear pants (bluff) has been pulled down by Doval and Modi and are now naked in front of India.

 

[Krusty]

If India and Pakistan fought a war detonating 100 nuclear warheads (around half of their combined arsenal), each equivalent to a 15-kiloton Hiroshima bomb, more than 21 million people will be directly killed, about half the world’s protective ozone layer would be destroyed, and a “nuclear winter” would cripple the monsoons and agriculture worldwide.

As the Indian Army considers armed options, and a member of Parliament of the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party urges a nuclear attack and the Pakistan defence minister threatens to “annihilate” India in return, these projections, made by researchers from three US universities in 2007, are a reminder of the costs of nuclear war.


Visualisation by nucleardarkness.org based on study by researchers from Rutgers University, University of Colorado-Boulder and University of California, Los Angeles
BJP Rajya Sabha MP Subramanian Swamy said on September 23 that if 100 million Indians died in a Pakistani nuclear attack, India’s retaliation would wipe out Pakistan.
But the real costs would be higher and not just in India and Pakistan, where the first 21 million people – half the death toll of World War II – would perish within the first week from blast effects, burns and acute radiation, according to the 2007 study by researchers from Rutgers University, University of Colorado-Boulder and University of California, Los Angeles, all in the USA.

This death toll would be 2,221 times the number of civilians and security forces killed by terrorists in India over nine years to 2015, according to an IndiaSpend analysis of South Asia Terrorism Portal data.

Another two billion people worldwide would face risks of severe starvation due to the climatic effects of the nuclear-weapon use in the subcontinent, according to this 2013 assessment by the International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War, a global federation of physicians.

Pakistan has an estimated 110 to 130 nuclear warheads as of 2015 – an increase from an estimated 90 to 110 warheads in 2011 – according to this report from the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, a global disarmament advocacy. India is estimated to have 110 to 120 nuclear warheads.

However, he cautioned: “The fallout of the nuclear attacks on Lahore and Karachi, for instance, would not just be restricted to the Pakistani territory, and depending on the wind directions, can affect both Indian and Afghan border territories.”

This article first appeared on IndiaSpend, a data-driven and public-interest journalism non-profit.

Saar, i find myself in disagreement with this whole nuclear winter thing. Ofcourse I am no expert in nuclear explosions but non propagandist Scientists have repeatedly debunked the nuclear winter theory. Forget India Pakistan exchange. I am talking about a USA-Russia exchange. But unfortunately their work was porposefully curbed and their results didn't get any attention from the main stream media.

Ref: Stephen Schneider's book 'Nuclear Winter Reappraised'. One of the few books written by a non propaganda scientist.

Unfortunately he was branded a fascist by various NGO's, corporates and many Politicians. His book was suppressed by the main stream media and he was sidelined by the scientific community. Unfortunately, this is what happens to Scientists who speak the truth. No Scientists wants that. Although you will find a copy of the book online. Media seldom talks about him or his work. Anyone who does is immediately branded a heretic and a fascist undermining peace and disarmament.

At his time in the mid 80s his work mainly concentrated on USA/USSR nuclear exchange. You can see that effect India Pak exchange will have.

One thing I can tell from that graph you linked straight away. Leaving out all variables aside, I bet it doesn't take into account the fallout and the particulates actually returning back to the ground where the explosion was set off. Which is actually the case. Actual Russian diagram of a typical fallout. What are the chances of the fallout Travelling thousands of miles?

At best, that computer simulation is flawed and intentionally skewed to make it look like Armageddon for the entire world if India and Pakistan unload their nukes. I don't buy into that theory.

 

[captscooby81]

@Krusty @Kshatriya87 @Flame Thrower

My response what i shared was something which i read sometime ago in the sick Scroll page which was again tracked to indiaspend now we all know how and what scroll.in does its anti india anti hindu page so they might wanted to pick a theory and simulation graph which will suits their agenda of discouraging india from waging a nuclear war with false fear propaganda created in its readers mind .. Well i have zero knowledge on nuclear radiation or the nuclear weapon usage after effects on the climate .. When i find some precious time given to me by someone who worked on the Nuclear reactors i will get more details and update back only he may be able to give some inputs about the nuclear weapons apart from the vast knowledge available in the free open internet ..

Saar, i find myself in disagreement with this whole nuclear winter thing. Ofcourse I am no expert in nuclear explosions but non propagandist Scientists have repeatedly debunked the nuclear winter theory. Forget India Pakistan exchange. I am talking about a USA-Russia exchange. But unfortunately their work was porposefully curbed and their results didn't get any attention from the main stream media.

Ref: Stephen Schneider's book 'Nuclear Winter Reappraised'. One of the few books written by a non propaganda scientist.

Unfortunately he was branded a fascist by various NGO's, corporates and many Politicians. His book was suppressed by the main stream media and he was sidelined by the scientific community. Unfortunately, this is what happens to Scientists who speak the truth. No Scientists wants that. Although you will find a copy of the book online. Media seldom talks about him or his work. Anyone who does is immediately branded a heretic and a fascist undermining peace and disarmament.

At his time in the mid 80s his work mainly concentrated on USA/USSR nuclear exchange. You can see that effect India Pak exchange will have.

One thing I can tell from that graph you linked straight away. Leaving out all variables aside, I bet it doesn't take into account the fallout and the particulates actually returning back to the ground where the explosion was set off. Which is actually the case. Actual Russian diagram of a typical fallout. What are the chances of the fallout Travelling thousands of miles?

At best, that computer simulation is flawed and intentionally skewed to make it look like Armageddon for the entire world if India and Pakistan unload their nukes. I don't buy into that theory.

 

[Kshatriya87]

Saar, i find myself in disagreement with this whole nuclear winter thing. Ofcourse I am no expert in nuclear explosions but non propagandist Scientists have repeatedly debunked the nuclear winter theory. Forget India Pakistan exchange. I am talking about a USA-Russia exchange. But unfortunately their work was porposefully curbed and their results didn't get any attention from the main stream media.

Ref: Stephen Schneider's book 'Nuclear Winter Reappraised'. One of the few books written by a non propaganda scientist.

Unfortunately he was branded a fascist by various NGO's, corporates and many Politicians. His book was suppressed by the main stream media and he was sidelined by the scientific community. Unfortunately, this is what happens to Scientists who speak the truth. No Scientists wants that. Although you will find a copy of the book online. Media seldom talks about him or his work. Anyone who does is immediately branded a heretic and a fascist undermining peace and disarmament.

At his time in the mid 80s his work mainly concentrated on USA/USSR nuclear exchange. You can see that effect India Pak exchange will have.

One thing I can tell from that graph you linked straight away. Leaving out all variables aside, I bet it doesn't take into account the fallout and the particulates actually returning back to the ground where the explosion was set off. Which is actually the case. Actual Russian diagram of a typical fallout. What are the chances of the fallout Travelling thousands of miles?

View attachment 14891

At best, that computer simulation is flawed and intentionally skewed to make it look like Armageddon for the entire world if India and Pakistan unload their nukes. I don't buy into that theory.

If you ask me, all this propaganda is made to protect powerful nations like USA & Russia.

Since a country with far less conventional power can effectively take out a country with far larger conventional force with a few nukes, WMDs are discouraged world wide.

By removing nukes from the equation, superpowers can continue to maintain their monopoly over the world politics. But the moment small nations get nukes e.g. north korea, pakistan etc. that influence over them is gone.

 

[Kshatriya87]

@Krusty @Kshatriya87 @Flame Thrower

My response what i shared was something which i read sometime ago in the sick Scroll page which was again tracked to indiaspend now we all know how and what scroll.in does its anti india anti hindu page so they might wanted to pick a theory and simulation graph which will suits their agenda of discouraging india from waging a nuclear war with false fear propaganda created in its readers mind .. Well i have zero knowledge on nuclear radiation or the nuclear weapon usage after effects on the climate .. When i find some precious time given to me by someone who worked on the Nuclear reactors i will get more details and update back only he may be able to give some inputs about the nuclear weapons apart from the vast knowledge available in the free open internet ..

Understood.

We're not saying that nuking a city is perfectly alright. It has consequences of course. Larger blast radius, shock waves reaching miles away, radiation etc. leads to larger causalties, effective destruction of infrastructure in a limited area, wiping out communication in the vicinity due to the EMP generated.

But the way these explosions are portrayed as the doomsday weapons is wrong.

 

[captscooby81]

NoKo and Baagistan both got lucky with their Nuke thanks for pig brother China hiding behind a curtain and doing the orchestra for nuclear proliferation helping two rouge states .. Israel got the same with the help of USA .. Now we are the only one who slogged our own ass outside the big 5 to create our own Nuclear weapons all hard work we put someone gifts weapons so easily to these two countries .. Thank god israel acted swiftly and removed the nuclear threat from syria and Iraq or else today ISIS would have got its hand on Nuclear weapons with its captured territory of Iraq and Syria ...We with 80-90 nuclear warheads still going to give sleepless nights to China with 500 Nuclear war heads anyday...same with Noko with 20-30 nuclear warheads will give sleepless nights to USA and its allies in the East ..

EMP well the last i heard is China is planning to use this mode to cripple the entire US naval fleet in south china sea if it goes to war with one Nuke drop and create a big EMP and the entire US fleet will be made lifeless toys especially its Aircraft battle groups ...

If you ask me, all this propaganda is made to protect powerful nations like USA & Russia.

Since a country with far less conventional power can effectively take out a country with far larger conventional force with a few nukes, WMDs are discouraged world wide.

By removing nukes from the equation, superpowers can continue to maintain their monopoly over the world politics. But the moment small nations get nukes e.g. north korea, pakistan etc. that influence over them is gone.

 

[Krusty]

Saar, i find myself in disagreement with this whole nuclear winter thing. Ofcourse I am no expert in nuclear explosions but non propagandist Scientists have repeatedly debunked the nuclear winter theory. Forget India Pakistan exchange. I am talking about a USA-Russia exchange. But unfortunately their work was porposefully curbed and their results didn't get any attention from the main stream media.

Ref: Stephen Schneider's book 'Nuclear Winter Reappraised'. One of the few books written by a non propaganda scientist.

Unfortunately he was branded a fascist by various NGO's, corporates and many Politicians. His book was suppressed by the main stream media and he was sidelined by the scientific community. Unfortunately, this is what happens to Scientists who speak the truth. No Scientists wants that. Although you will find a copy of the book online. Media seldom talks about him or his work. Anyone who does is immediately branded a heretic and a fascist undermining peace and disarmament.

At his time in the mid 80s his work mainly concentrated on USA/USSR nuclear exchange. You can see that effect India Pak exchange will have.

One thing I can tell from that graph you linked straight away. Leaving out all variables aside, I bet it doesn't take into account the fallout and the particulates actually returning back to the ground where the explosion was set off. Which is actually the case. Actual Russian diagram of a typical fallout. What are the chances of the fallout Travelling thousands of miles?

View attachment 14891

At best, that computer simulation is flawed and intentionally skewed to make it look like Armageddon for the entire world if India and Pakistan unload their nukes. I don't buy into that theory.

Ofcourse boss. If my post came out as harsh or attacking you I apologize. I merely wanted to state my opinion on the posted theory.

 

[captscooby81]

Ha ha i just said i will dig more and update you guys i always welcome any knowledge knowing things i don t have any clue is always best process i never take it as harsh or attacking ..Keep continuing never stop sharing what you know unless we are in slug fest :bounce:

Ofcourse boss. If my post came out as harsh or attacking you I apologize. I merely wanted to state my opinion on the posted theory.

 

[Krusty]

unless we are in slug fest :bounce:

I have a feeling that we will be in one pretty soon

 

[Kshatriya87]

NoKo and Baagistan both got lucky with their Nuke thanks for pig brother China hiding behind a curtain and doing the orchestra for nuclear proliferation helping two rouge states .. Israel got the same with the help of USA .. Now we are the only one who slogged our own ass outside the big 5 to create our own Nuclear weapons all hard work we put someone gifts weapons so easily to these two countries .. Thank god israel acted swiftly and removed the nuclear threat from syria and Iraq or else today ISIS would have got its hand on Nuclear weapons with its captured territory of Iraq and Syria ...We with 80-90 nuclear warheads still going to give sleepless nights to China with 500 Nuclear war heads anyday...same with Noko with 20-30 nuclear warheads will give sleepless nights to USA and its allies in the East ..

EMP well the last i heard is China is planning to use this mode to cripple the entire US naval fleet in south china sea if it goes to war with one Nuke drop and create a big EMP and the entire US fleet will be made lifeless toys especially its Aircraft battle groups ...

That's the thing about nukes, you can take down a massive enemy with just half a dozen nukes targeting their cities and hence crippling their economy. After that, even if they win the war, its meaning less.

 

[Krusty]

If you ask me, all this propaganda is made to protect powerful nations like USA & Russia.

Since a country with far less conventional power can effectively take out a country with far larger conventional force with a few nukes, WMDs are discouraged world wide.

By removing nukes from the equation, superpowers can continue to maintain their monopoly over the world politics. But the moment small nations get nukes e.g. north korea, pakistan etc. that influence over them is gone.

Yep. The problem is far too many of our own people gladly swallow their propaganda and subterfuge. I myself had a hard time with my cousins who are all well educated. I don't know what can be done to wipe of this mass ignorance. Education is clearly not helping.

 

[Kshatriya87]

NoKo and Baagistan both got lucky with their Nuke thanks for pig brother China hiding behind a curtain and doing the orchestra for nuclear proliferation helping two rouge states .. Israel got the same with the help of USA .. Now we are the only one who slogged our own ass outside the big 5 to create our own Nuclear weapons all hard work we put someone gifts weapons so easily to these two countries .. Thank god israel acted swiftly and removed the nuclear threat from syria and Iraq or else today ISIS would have got its hand on Nuclear weapons with its captured territory of Iraq and Syria ...We with 80-90 nuclear warheads still going to give sleepless nights to China with 500 Nuclear war heads anyday...same with Noko with 20-30 nuclear warheads will give sleepless nights to USA and its allies in the East ..

EMP well the last i heard is China is planning to use this mode to cripple the entire US naval fleet in south china sea if it goes to war with one Nuke drop and create a big EMP and the entire US fleet will be made lifeless toys especially its Aircraft battle groups ...

Why would you want to use a nuke for EMP? Doesn't make any sense. If you want to completely destroy & sink the fleet, drop a nuke directly on the fleet itself.

Just for crippling the fleet with a nuclearised EMP won't work as the EMP will shut down the systems only for a few hours. After that the equipment will be up and running as usual.

 

[Kshatriya87]

Yep. The problem is far too many of our own people gladly swallow their propaganda and subterfuge. I myself had a hard time with my cousins who are all well educated. I don't know what can be done to wipe of this mass ignorance. Education is clearly not helping with it.

That's what mass media does to you. You lose objective & critical thinking abilities after watching and listening the same thing over and over again.

Its like how the north koreans believe that Kim Jong Un does not have any lower body holes, he does not shit or piss because he works so hard that everything just evaporates. Stuff like this has been taught to them since their childhood and hence they literally believe that their dictator is a superhuman.

 

[captscooby81]

Your wish my command thala... Are we going to do it on Farmers protest or on Hindi imposition propaganda in TN

I have a feeling that we will be in one pretty soon

 

[captscooby81]

Declassified Intelligence Reports Reveal the Chinese First Strike EMP Option
A declassified intelligence report, obtained by the private National Security Archive, provides details on China’s EMP weapons as well as the plans for their use.

The report details how much of China’s military is developing EMP weapons that the Chinese plan to use against targeted U.S. aircraft carriers with regard to any future conflict over Taiwan. Parts of the National Ground Intelligence Center study on the lethal effects of electromagnetic pulse (EMP) and high-powered microwave (HPM) weapons revealed that the arms are part of what China refers to as the “assassin’s mace”. This arsenal of EMP weapons allows a technologically inferior China to defeat U.S. military forces while leaving much of the surrounding infrastructure intact. The report further states “For use against Taiwan, China could detonate at a much lower altitude (30 to 40 kilometers) … to confine the EMP effects to Taiwan and its immediate vicinity and minimize damage to electronics on the mainland.”

The once labeled “top secret ” report, revealed that Chinese military writings have emphasized the importance of building low-yield EMP warheads. The report said that future Chinese EMP weapons should emphasize developing “any low-yield strategic nuclear warhead (or tactical nuclear warheads) could be used with similar effects. The DF-21 medium-range ballistic missile was prominently mentioned as a platform for the EMP attack against a country such as Taiwan”. Of course, this strategy has definitive applicability in its use against the United States.

According to the report, this “trump card” or “assassin’s mace” weapons that are based on new technology, has been developed in high secrecy. Trump card would be applicable if the Chinese have developed new low-yield, possibly enhanced, EMP warheads, while assassin’s mace would apply if older warheads are employed, the report said.

Why would you want to use a nuke for EMP? Doesn't make any sense. If you want to completely destroy & sink the fleet, drop a nuke directly on the fleet itself.

Just for crippling the fleet with a nuclearised EMP won't work as the EMP will shut down the systems only for a few hours. After that the equipment will be up and running as usual.