India not keen on trilateral security pact with Australia, US

[utubekhiladi]

Agreed.

I detest reverse-racism. The same people who indulge in reverse-racism are the ones who squeal the loudest when others make racist taunts or jibes against Indians.

Americans are ok - what I dislike are the wannabe Yankee(s)

brother, please understand that this thread is not to discuss what you like and what you don't. please please lets get back to topic

 

[Bangalorean]

As far as the topic is concerned though, I personally would not want an alliance at the moment. But that doesn't mean I go around moaning about Americans/US and demonizing "the White man".

I get very angry when I hear Indians blaming the "White man" for our problems, in 2011. Such complaints would have been justified in the 1950s. Maybe even till the end of the 1960s. Nothing beyond that. We had our chance, but we refused to take it, thanks to the NehruGandhi era and the policies therein.

 

[utubekhiladi]

As far as the topic is concerned though, I personally would not want an alliance at the moment. But that doesn't mean I go around moaning about Americans/US and demonizing "the White man".

I get very angry when I hear Indians blaming the "White man" for our problems, in 2011. Such complaints would have been justified in the 1950s. Maybe even till the end of the 1960s. Nothing beyond that. We had our chance, but we refused to take it, thanks to the NehruGandhi era and the policies therein.

i can't agree any more with you

this is year 2012(soon) and we cannot whine thinking about past. we need to analysis current situation and move accordingly

 

[amitkriit]

This is an intelligent move by India. India cannot rely on USA and Australia for her security, in fact Australia sees India as a bigger naval threat in the Indian Ocean. Instead of going on a collision course with China, we must try to normalize the relations, without compromising our security and showing any weaknesses. Such move will establish India as an independent force in the region, although we can cooperate with like-minded nations having similar interests and concerns on case-to-case basis.

 

[KS]

You can bitch and moan and call people stupid as much as you want, bottom line is India still does not have any strategic alliance with either of the two blocks. We've been fine, we will be fine. Now please dont point to the stuff we signed with Afghanistan and Vietnam for Chrissake

What do you men "still does no have"...It has had consistently since the late 60's, with the USSR & lately with the US

 

[trackwhack]

What do you men "still does no have"...It has had consistently since the late 60's, with the USSR & lately with the US

You obviously have no clue what a strategic alliance means

 

[civfanatic]

CivFanatic, you and I concur way too many times than we differ. May I ask you why we Indians, or at least those of us who mattered, followed, emulated and seeked solutions to our problems from the USSR? Most of the USSR was 'white' as well, right? Why did we get Kurt Tank, a German, to design our fighter plane? Why did we collaborate with the Brits to build our hovercrafts?

Such stereotypical comments will not particularly help in bringing people closer; it will only distance them.

I particularly admire a few people who have a very strong tolerance level against insensitive comments, such as, but not limited to, W.G.Ewald and Yusuf.

My comment was a direct response to Karthic's post about "fearing the white man" and "inferiority complex" and "Hanuman syndrome" and some bullshit like that. I don't know if my post was racist or not and to be honest I don't really care either.

 

[civfanatic]

Huh , that makes no sense, in fact I'm wondering if you intended the reply to someone else's post

Maybe once you become literate it will make sense to you.

 

[nrj]

Isn't the title misleading (Rejected) ?

India not aware - MoD taken aback with that statement.

I think the pact is still on the agenda, only thing India might have wanted could be to keep it quite. Many of you don't know how out spoken and bravado Kevin Rudd is, he single handed jeopardized Australia-USA relationship by mocking then current president G.Bush. His wikileaks statement on China, refusal to sell Uranium to India because we have good supply chain he is well aware of etc. are quite blunt, upfront, undiplomatic statements.

This is seriously annoying that people are pulling out knives here against each other and proving their intellect point on a misleading title. MoD is no one to make foreign policy decisions for India.

Agreed. Thread title edited.

 

[Adux]

This is an intelligent move by India. India cannot rely on USA and Australia for her security, in fact Australia sees India as a bigger naval threat in the Indian Ocean. Instead of going on a collision course with China, we must try to normalize the relations, without compromising our security and showing any weaknesses. Such move will establish India as an independent force in the region, although we can cooperate with like-minded nations having similar interests and concerns on case-to-case basis.

You know what is the primary mover in your post, you expect China to play ball. Is a independent or strong India, in China's favor? Is even a second rate power with some sense of individuality in China's favor? No. So why would China play ball? India's very existence is deterimintal to China's plan's of global domination. CHina will do to India, if India is weak, what it is doing in ASEAN. Or should you be with OK being a Canada/UK to USA type situation with India and China. I am sure not. Accept the fact, that Chinese are our enemies and will remain so, as the last 60 years have shown. Like it or not, we need Australia, USA, Japan, South Korea, Mongolia and ASEAN, as much as they need us. China showed such maturity when Nixon visited them against USSR.

Indians are at times a bunch of wussies morally grandstanding ninocooomp idiots.

 

[KS]

My comment was a direct response to Karthic's post about "fearing the white man" and "inferiority complex" and "Hanuman syndrome" and some bullshit like that. I don't know if my post was racist or not and to be honest I don't really care either.

Fanatic, look I don't have any wish that India end up like Japan or SK and your concern in that matter too i understandable given that we were colonized by the whites for about 200 years. But then we should also realize unlike SK or japan who were completely destroyed after WW II and had to depend on the US completely for their reconstruction & defence and in the process ending up as puppets voluntarily.involuntarily we have crossed the most difficult phase of building a strong foundation for a being a great power...from now on we should be able to confidently engage with the big powers with out any fear whatsoever of being colonized by them again or ending up as puppets..also unlike SK or Japan which were anyway too small to stand up as equal to US we simply by our sheer size will never end up as puppets/satellite states...I think that fear of Indians especially given current conditions is definitely based on Hanuman syndrome where we are not aware of our inherent strength..

The US recognizes India as a partner and not as a client state/puppet state...in that case why should we be still shy of rubbing shoulders with the big boys..Ofcourse that does not mean you agree with them on everything..but you can make them know that both the vission for the future coincide and yes we can be equal partners...IMO Indians are still shy because of the inherent fear you mentioned in your post (...should never be allies with great powers or something like that...) And that is because voluntarily or involuntarily the first thing w associate in our mind wih goras is - those bastards ruled us...Why this shyness..? We ourselves are also a great power in the making. The Irony is America knows that..but still India does not know that..

I'll end by saying one thing...India has the muscles of a great power, but does not have the head or heart of one.

Think about it..Its definitely not BS...Yet if you think it's one..therein lies the answer why India will not become a great power..

 

[civfanatic]

Did I ever say that we "should not rub shoulders" with great powers (whatever the hell that means)? Isn't that what we are doing already?

I have already stated numerous times that I support Indo-US cooperation on many fronts, including but not limited to trade, civil nuclear cooperation, and counter-terrorism cooperation. What I am opposed to are certain arrangements* that will limit our strategic options and possibly reduce our geopolitical independence. But those arrangements should not block out the larger sphere of possible cooperation which we should definitely grasp. If even a rhetorically anti-West and non-democratic country like China can have so close relations with the West, there is no reason why a democracy like India should not or cannot.

It seems fashionable for people nowadays to denounce others without even understanding the positions they are taking. Undoubtedly this is a trait inherited from certain other forums on the Internet.


*EDIT: In case it needs to be clarified, examples of such arrangements would be putting crucial defence issues like anti-ballistic missile shield in the hands of other nations (as certain countries tried offering India in the past), or purchasing military equipment which is limited in the ways in which we can use it due to certain end-user agreements. Such arrangements may be unavoidable and maybe even beneficial for smaller countries, but for a country like India they are neither required nor desirable.

 

[KS]

......What I am opposed to are certain arrangements that will limit our strategic options and possibly reduce our geopolitical independence. .......

I'm just saying instead of clinging to these we should realize the reality that Chinese aren't our friends and as we both grow the confrontations will only increase....sparks are already starting to fly...I'll swallow my pride & say...in a pure shooting game the chinese conveniently outgun us..so if & when it comes to expect the pakis too to jump in..and in that case it would be good to have someone watch your back.

Also it need not be just war...even in various international fora the support of the nations aforementioned is crucial in a shouting game against the Chinese...Its time we woke up to the reality..

Note by doing above, I am not saying become a Yes Man to them...don't be a SK...but be a Germany...wherein they are allied to US, but in the same time maintain their strategic independence.

 

[civfanatic]

Forget about the Chinese. There will be no shooting war between us and China in the next five, 10, 20, or 50 years.

 

[KS]

Forget about the Chinese. There will be no shooting war between us and China in the next five, 10, 20, or 50 years.

What can say, except....YOU WISH.

BTW Also it need not be just war...even in various international fora the support of the nations aforementioned is crucial in a shouting game against the Chinese on various issues...

 

[civfanatic]

What can say, except....YOU WISH.

I wonder what makes you so confident that two huge nations both undergoing crucial economic transformation at a rapid pace will be willing to throw away everything on some inconsequential border disputes that are nothing more than diplomatic playing cards.

You should really stop frequenting PDF and all the crazy war scenarios that they post there and come back to reality.

 

[KS]

I wonder what makes you so confident that two huge nations both undergoing crucial economic transformation at a rapid pace will be willing to throw away everything on some inconsequential border disputes that are nothing more than diplomatic playing cards.

It's just economics friend.

It's a small world with limited resources and more importantly conflicting interests. The only roadblock in the Chinese highway to Asian hegemony is India (and Japan) and if you think they can make ever make peace with India, you are mistaken.

The Chinese are no solving the border issue not for their affinity for Arunachal, but just to keep the pot boiling so that when there is a need a reason is always there to escalate.

Again you are mssing this part..Also it need not be just war...even in various international fora the support of the nations aforementioned is crucial in a shouting game against the Chinese on various issues...

You should really stop frequenting PDF and all the crazy war scenarios that they post there and come back to reality.

My tongue was a bit too sharp for them...so on a vacation..

 

[SHASH2K2]

now .
Australia govt denies backing India, US security pact - The Times of India

 

[Ray]

Therefore, all this was kiteflying.

 

[The Messiah]

Wonderful decision...i salute those sitting in south block for this particular move.

Australia are wankers of the highest order...they'll be militarily defeated within a week if not for usa.

Anyways having a military alliance with any country is out of the question...economic pact is different.