India not keen on trilateral security pact with Australia, US

[KS]

The allies of the United states are capitalists slave traders, the allies of the Soviets were Commie monkeys. We were neither. We chose our own path. A military pact with the USSR existed because the United States chose to go to bed with Pakistan, that does not mean we became a cold war ally of the Soviets.

What the Soviets did in 71 was awesome. That still did not change the fact that we were non-aligned. When countries were queueing up to be courted by the United States and USSR, we chose a different path. You can believe what you want, whatever makes you happy.

Whatever makes you happy man.

The truth we were always in the Soviet Camp and against the imperialists (aka US). our idealogy was always Communism..err..a bastardized version of it called Socialism & the idealogical hatred was always there against America.

What you chose to recognize is of no consequence, what matters is the fact on ground. If you are happy with the adage "non-aligned nation" so be it. But truth is different.

And BTW Non alignment hasn't done jack for India for all the decades. It''s the alignment with either USSR or USA that has given India some of the most beneficiary deals. Look up to it.

I am happy as hell with the Foreign ministry's statement, in fact elated and cant wait to read what the Aussie press has to say tomorrow. I hope to god that this results in severe deterioration in our relations with Australia. Unless, of course they learn their lesson and come back with their tails between their legs.

UK colonized India for 200 years. When is India cutting off all diplomatic ties with UK ?

Fools.

 

[pmaitra]

unless you spend your way into a USSR style bankruptcy...

Well, we are seeing something like that (bankruptcy) here in the US, but then this is going to be off-topic in this thread. Why not post your views here? http://defenceforumindia.com/united-states-european-union/27203-2012-us-presidential-elections.html

 

[trackwhack]

Fools.

ok............

 

[JayATL]

Jay,

Personally, I don't really make a big deal about double posts or duplicate posts. It happens here all the time.

I also think that you have a sense of humour not very peculiar to that of many Indians and you probably come across as something which you are not.

How about we choose our words when posting? If you seen the recent trend, one thing leads to the other and things go nasty pretty quickly.

Just a request.

I will take it under advisement and speak to the Red fella with thorns who sits on my left shoulder .

 

[KS]

...... And non - aligned thinking will get you and your ass handed to you by the Chinese- unless you spend your way into a USSR style bankruptcy... ..

Minor Correction - It will not if we were content in staying within our borders.

But great powers rarely stay within their borders and for that we need to define where our interests lie and align accordingly.

 

[pmaitra]

The truth we were always in the Soviet Camp and against the imperialists (aka US). our idealogy was always Communism..err..a bastardized version of it called Socialism & the idealogical hatred was always there against America.

I beg to disagree. We were building our economy as per the Soviet style, e.g. 5 year plans etc., but our foreign policy has always been Non-aligned till we were about to intervene in East Pakistan. We became Soviet-allied only since then.

Also, Yugoslavia, although communist, we always Non-Aligned. Just a side note.

 

[Galaxy]

Look I also disagree when Indians say time tested freindship with Russia.

USSR (not Russia) is no more.

Russia is just like any other country and there is no time tested friendship. Right now we buy their weapons enmasse..else the friendship would have gone to the drains long back.

Russia is not like Soviet era but still it is 2nd most powerful country.

It's not only about weapons but it's about JV, Technology, Relation. It took many decades to develop such relation. U.S. can be trusted.

There are mainly 3 options for defence purchase.

1> U.S. (expensive without ToT and many clauses)
2> Russia ( normal price with full ToT + strategic alliance)
3> European (Only money talks)

Israel are only in SAM, Radar, AWACS and UAV.

We bought 10 C-17 in 4.1 Bn $. Australian in half price. If Tomorrow MTC'A comes in picture, We will able to operate 50 MTCA in 6-8 bn $ with full ToT and future will be secured. like Brahmos, T-90, MKI. There is also one advantage, whatever we are buying from Russia, they won't sell to Pakistan. When we do JV like PAK-FA, Brahmos then not possible for China too.

On other hand, U.S. gifted F-16 to Pakistan and selling upgraded version and F-18 to India in Multi Bn $ deal. U.S. denied Arrow-2,3 tech to India via Israel. U.S. can't be trusted if any country wants to become powerful with full control. Japan, S.K., Turkey, KSA all are buying from U.S. but i would say U.S. puppet. We need not to follow such line.

 

[KS]

I beg to disagree. We were building our economy as per the Soviet style, e.g. 5 year plans etc., but our foreign policy has always been Non-aligned till we were about to intervene in East Pakistan. We became Soviet-allied only since then.

Also, Yugoslavia, although communist, we always Non-Aligned. Just a side note.

Yeah you are right maybe.

Infact US offered to help in 1962 but we were late to take the offer.

I think it was only after the '65 war it all started.

 

[pmaitra]

Why not start a poll on this?

Heck, I don't want India to be dragged into some meaningless war just like the US dragged the French and the Germans into Iraq when they had no intention of intervening.

I support GoI on this.

 

[pmaitra]

Yeah you are right maybe.

Infact US offered to help in 1962 but we were late to take the offer.

I think it was only after the '65 war it all started.

August 1971.

Link: Indo-Soviet Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JayATL]

Well, we are seeing something like that (bankruptcy) here in the US, but then this is going to be off-topic in this thread. Why not post your views here? http://defenceforumindia.com/united-states-european-union/27203-2012-us-presidential-elections.html

I will check that link out, but I suspect I will debate idiots mostly who have no clue about US economy, its military status, its global positioning military wise, NATO etc. If one is remotely inclined to learn about economics and it indicators, don't have to be well versed, just remotely knowledgeable about economics, and then you will know there is no bankruptcy happening in the US...

I'm not even asking/ expecting anyone to comprehend that No freaking headed towards bankruptcy country gets its treasuries sold at fewer than 2% interest and that has its industries sitting on close to 3 trillion in cash.

 

[JayATL]

Why not start a poll on this?

Heck, I don't want India to be dragged into some meaningless war just like the US dragged the French and the Germans into Iraq when they had no intention of intervening.

I support GoI on this.

err French , germans did not go into Iraq... your citizenship is being suspended... (j/k) They refused to go into Iraq...they went into afghanistan. Just because you are aligned you don't have to go into " all wars "

 

[civfanatic]

UK colonized India for 200 years. When is India cutting off all diplomatic ties with UK ?

Fools.

When India becomes an economic superpower with the largest GDP in the world and a developed infrastructure, and Britain has been reduced to a third-rate island, this should be one of the things that India does.

Nothing better to rile up nationalists and unite the country (perhaps for an up-coming election?) than to face the past and demand compensation for crimes that the West likes to pretend never happened. We can threaten sanctions if they don't hand over the Crown Jewels

 

[Galaxy]

 

[civfanatic]

Proof that Reagan was an idiot and that Reaganomics = crappy economics.

 

[JayATL]

Minor Correction - It will not if we were content in staying within our borders.

But great powers rarely stay within their borders and for that we need to define where our interests lie and align accordingly.

you said it " great powers" to be great - NEED a global economic presence. It's actaully far worse than when the cold war was-- now to make the trillions in GDP, as India aims to be--- you have to have investments globally and assets that need to be protected. or have the ability to protect it.

you already seen china bitching about Vietnam... that's just a sneek peek of what is to come. US is not an idiot to have a permanent station in australia now- nor is australia an idiot to ask for it now...it's all china centric.

 

[KS]

Russia is not like Soviet era but still it is 2nd most powerful country.

It's not only about weapons but it's about JV, Technology, Relation. It took many decades to develop such relation. U.S. can be trusted.

There are mainly 3 options for defence purchase.

1> U.S. (expensive without ToT and many clauses)
2> Russia ( normal price with full ToT + strategic alliance)
3> European (Only money talks)

Israel are only in SAM, Radar, AWACS and UAV.

We bought 10 C-17 in 4.1 Bn $. Australian in half price. If Tomorrow MTC'A comes in picture, We will able to operate 50 MTCA in 6-8 bn $ with full ToT and future will be secured. like Brahmos, T-90, MKI. There is also one advantage, whatever we are buying from Russia, they won't sell to Pakistan. When we do JV like PAK-FA, Brahmos then not possible for China too.

That is because Russian Arms industry needs money more than ever and which country with a huge economy is dependent on them for arms except India ? - US ?no. Japan ? No. China? No. France? No. Germany/UK ? No. Brazil ? No.

I;m not saying it;s entirely for money..ofcourse our strategic interests do coincide with Russia..but mostly its for money.

On other hand, U.S. gifted F-16 to Pakistan and selling upgraded version and F-18 to India in Multi Bn $ deal. U.S. denied Arrow-2,3 tech to India via Israel. U.S. can't be trusted if any country wants to become powerful with full control. Japan, S.K., Turkey, KSA all are buying from U.S. but i would say U.S. puppet. We need not to follow such line.

Maybe because we ourselves have not been trusted allies to US ? Maybe because there is a trust deficit.

I'm not saying the we should become the next SK or Japan...but we can certainly engage the US more closely than now without compromising on the sovereignity.

 

[KS]

August 1971.

Link: Indo-Soviet Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was the cusp of an engagement that started 3 or 4 years ago. More like a marriage date for a couple who have been courting for 3 years.

 

[ice berg]

India can still benefit alot without a security pact with Australia and US.

 

[hit&run]

Isn't the title misleading (Rejected) ?

India not aware - MoD taken aback with that statement.

I think the pact is still on the agenda, only thing India might have wanted could be to keep it quite. Many of you don't know how out spoken and bravado Kevin Rudd is, he single handed jeopardized Australia-USA relationship by mocking then current president G.Bush. His wikileaks statement on China, refusal to sell Uranium to India because we have good supply chain he is well aware of etc. are quite blunt, upfront, undiplomatic statements.