India Cold Start Doctrine and Pakistan's Tactical Nukes

[Bhadra]

Army will have a predator c 'avenger' drones but deal is not final depends on MoD

Do we have ammunition for all the above ??
Ask OFB..........

Where are A/tk missiles ?

 

[Brimstone]

What is the Task ??
What is the terrain ?

To capture Lahore (South)

What is Enemy strength, disposition and reserves ?

Say IV corps of PA or 2 infantry divisions and 2 armoured brigades

What is the time frame / window of opportunity

How soon can you get it done ?

 

[Bhadra]

To capture Lahore (South)

That is no task. You have be very specific.

Say - To advance on Axes X-Y and U-Z, isolate and bypass Town C and establish a Bridge Head on BRB Canal between RD 340 and RB 350, by 1000 hours D plus 1, failing which lean on the Eastern bank of the canal between RD 330 and 355, deny any crossing by enemy and capture and hold Town "C" on the Eastern bank of the Canal with a view to deny Road D to F to the enemy by 1400 hours on D plus 2.

Say IV corps of PA or 2 infantry divisions and 2 armoured brigades

No... Not that way

Say ... Twon "C" is likely to be occupied by a Company, two troops of armour anf one platoon of Recce and Support, BRB canal btween RD 330 and 335 is likely to held by two companies and Squardon of armour minus two troops and one platoon Recce and Support by 0800 D plus 1. Enemy has the ability to counter attack with a battalion and two squadron of armour by 1200 hours D plus 1.on BRB canal .

Desired Composition of IBG

Infantry DiV HQ
Two Infantry brigades ( six Infantry battalions with 30 Tatras each)
One Armoured Brigade ( Two armour regiments and one mechanised Infantry battalion)
One Artillery SP regiment ( in Direct Support)
One company of Recce and Support battalion
One Squadron of Combat Engineers
One Bridging Company with bridging equipment
Two troops of Light AD regiment
Two troops of Missile Regiment
Artillery Brigade with HQ elements
3 X 155 Gun Regiments in direct support)
1 X SATA Regiment
1 X Battery Pinaka
1 X Battery Smerch
All other artillery fire units ( 18 -22 fire units) in support
Onr PARA Company
Signal Regiment with MBFSR and EW equipment
Mi-8 Helicopter half squadron
2 X Flights Apache
2 X flight Mi-35
2 X Flights ALH
One bomber squadron in close air support
Brahmos on call
Prahar on call
Nibhaya on call

Logistics Support
ASC Battalion
EME battalion
Ordinance battalion
Medical Support
Two Field Ambulances
POW, Refugee and straggler management - Provost battalion

 

[Brimstone]

Say - To isolate and bypass Town C, To Establish a Bridge Head on BRB Canal between RD 340 and RB 350, by 1000 hours D plus 1, failing which lean on the Eastern bank of the canal between RD 330 and 355 and capture and hold Town "C" on the Eastern bank of the Canal with a view to deny Road D to F to the enemy by 1400 hours on D plus 1

Say ... Twon "C" is likely to be occupied by a Company, two troops of armour anf one platoon of Recce and Support, BRB canal btween RD 330 and 335 is likely to held by two companies and Squardon of armour minus two troops and one platoo Recce and Support by 0800 D plus 1. Enemy has the ability to counter attack with a battalion and two squardon of armour by 1200 hours D plus 1.on BRB canal .

Can you draw a map of the above scenario

 

[Brimstone]

Two armour regiments and one mechanised Infantry battalion

How much is that.....….........?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

problem is people on your side aren't assuming us as your rival.

There is no logic assuming Pakistan as India's "rival". Not by far in any aspect. These are only western journos beating drum about some kind of "race" since 60s between the two. History and balance tells us that India has won all races long ago even if there was any.

You guys only talk about military numerical superiority

We talk about a lot more which you guys comfortably ignore to dishonestly believe in a false in sense of parity between India & Pak.

It comes from quantitative and qualitative analysis of all aspects of military, that of economics, foreign relations, technology and R&D.

which i accept but kindly consider pakistan as your bitter enemy.

We do. We are enemies, not rivals. Less like France & Germany/USA & USSR and more like Russia & Ukraine/USA & North Korea.

i think you consider pakistan as somalia or nigeria.lol

No, we consider you as North Korea. I don't say that but the "white people's forum" which you guys love to believe say that India doesn't see Pakistan as a rival but just an irritant like North Korea.

However, as we aren't as influential as US, you aren't as isolated as North Korea.

Your degree of relative weakness will keep increasing however. Like it has been since last 50 years.

don't involve God.i think we all believe in God.

Not all of us. God is necessary in Islam, not in Indian & East Asian religions.

Our definition of religions is different and more about way of life and less about belief system.

i have no idea about isis but they have damaged muslims reputation all over the world.

As if it was very good earlier with JeM, Al Qaeda & other groups?
Wait, its your jihad & Taliban which actually damaged Islam. You guys are founder of long endurance extensive terrorism ont only ongoing in Afghanistan and subcontinent but throughout world causing millions of deaths.

i don't know mamata banerjee.i don't know about her tactics.i disuseed this topic because i was reading comment of an indian about her and he was very angry.

She isn't even remotely related to this thread.

i have no idea about socialism.

Your country doesn't run on socialism but free market approaches which India pursued much later.
Case is different that your jihad and instability have kept your economy stagnant even after 3-4 decades advantage.

internal problems exist because of religion too.i have seen both shia and shia behaving like brothers.basically shia problem is not sunni but wahhabi islam.you know about the rivalry of saudia and iran.these two countries made pakistan battleground of their sectarian war.

They are one factor. Pakistan itself created lot of factors to screw itself.
Anyways, it was last response to you on this thread.

Either a relevant thread or my inbox will be better.

 

[Bhadra]

How much is that.....….........?

About 100 tanks and 65 BMP-II.

 

[Bhadra]

Can you draw a map of the above scenario

Need a proper map and Software to draw military symbols.
But it would look something lime this . Read timings as given above.

 

[aarav]

Logistics Elements

 

[aarav]

Anti Tank Elements

 

[indus]

There is a role of Para SF also in Coldstart. Some time back there was an excercise also where validation of airdropping SF and securing ingress lines for IBG took place. Afaik SF guys are present along with IBG in the right locations. So we shld also factor in them in our scenarios.

 

[Bhadra]

There is a role of Para SF also in Coldstart. Some time back there was an excercise also where validation of airdropping SF and securing ingress lines for IBG took place. Afaik SF guys are present along with IBG in the right locations. So we shld also factor in them in our scenarios.

You have look above what should constitute this specific IBG, one PARA company and half squadron of MI-8 along with attack helicopters is listed.
PARA company in such a case is to be employed to establish a foothold and possible a Bridgehead / assist in opportunity crossings across the canal if not held or very lightly held by the enemy.

SF are a a wine of different bottle and I could not find a "tactical" use of them in the given scenario. Minor tactical tasks of laser / radio designation, direction FGA / attack heptr / artillery fires etc can be performed by PARA company who will be given a mobile FAC.

 

[Bhadra]

@aarav

A/tk firepower is the single biggest weakness of the Indian Army at present moment kind courtesy DRDO ..... They all are playing with their NAG and MPATGM since donkey's years.

Otherwise imagine about 100 MPATGM launchers and about 120 X 84mm Rocket Launchers spread in this small 10-12 km frontage providing an impregnable A/tk and A/pers capabilities.

 

[Brimstone]

Logistics ElementsView attachment 35156 View attachment 35157 View attachment 35158 View attachment 35159 View attachment 35160 View attachment 35161 View attachment 35162 View attachment 35163

What about C-130 and other small transport planes ?

 

[DG7867]

I think cold start strategy is brilliant.

Pakistan capitalized on India's slow mobilization for a long time. This is now history.

India has massively improved logistics in the last 30 years. I call this a benefit of Kashmir war.

India is positioned now to respond very quickly to any threat from West. There as still issues in the East where road/rail network is inadequate but I guess North-East situation is also far better today then anytime in the past.

I concur... best demonstration of this was the night WC Abhinandan was captured.. I think mobilization may have started few days before 26th, and by night of 27th, armour elements were already amassed at border, time frame of roughly 1 week I suppose... stark difference from the days of Op Parakram

 

[Bhadra]

I concur... best demonstration of this was the night WC Abhinandan was captured.. I think mobilization may have started few days before 26th, and by night of 27th, armour elements were already amassed at border, time frame of roughly 1 week I suppose... stark difference from the days of Op Parakram

OFB ( in all matters) and DRDO ( in the particular matter of Ant Tank missile) are trying their best to stall the "Cold Start". A/tk missiles are very fundamental and essential. They are neither making it nor allowing Indian Army to import those. There has to be time period to wait - not 30 years for NAG. That is plain and simple irresponsibility. Unfortunately, they seem to be working on some doctrine of their own by focusing on killing Pakistani satellites which exist only in their imagination.

It is just plain negligence and being traitor that OFB has not made up deficiencies in critical ammunition in spite of availability of funds, resources and organisation since CAG gave them a stick in 2013. They should simply shut their shops and give opportunities to others who are eagerly waiting.

 

[Bhadra]

What about C-130 and other small transport planes ?

Bhai border se sirf 12 -15 km door hai to C-130 ka kya karoge. PARA company can be airdropped but not in such a thickly urban -semi urban environment.

The plan presented above is only an example in mechanics of IBG operation. But if one studies th map carefully one will see that there are a line of three successive canals one behind the other within a depth of 12 -15 kms . . This IBG will have to make three bridgeheads and conduct three breakout battles to have a Chhota peg in Lions Club, Lahore.

Probably second Canal will be dealt with by heliborne operation and in third Canal IBG is just outside and suburbs of Lahore. Burki is now part of Lahore.

Reminds me suggestion of one of well wisher in SF thread who suggested that IA serious start training in MOUT. It is a typical MOUT operations.

@Arsalan - Now you will have to bomb Lahore with Nasar !!...

 

[DG7867]

You have look above what should constitute this specific IBG, one PARA company and half squadron of MI-8 along with attack helicopters is listed.
PARA company in such a case is to be employed to establish a foothold and possible a Bridgehead / assist in opportunity crossings across the canal if not held or very lightly held by the enemy.

SF are a a wine of different bottle and I could not find a "tactical" use of them in the given scenario. Minor tactical tasks of laser / radio designation, direction FGA / attack heptr / artillery fires etc can be performed by PARA company who will be given a mobile FAC.

I guess 10 PARA "Desert scorpions" will be active in this role?

 

[Bhadra]

I guess 10 PARA "Desert scorpions" will be active in this role?

They will always be active but not here and or engaged in very different tasks.
This area depicted is Amritsar - Lahore nor desert. This is hari-bhari "Doaba".
SF, as I told you earlier, is a wine of different bottle.
They would have no such conventional role in the operations of IBG unless you want them to go and destroy the electricity .grid / power distribution center of Lahore.

 

[aarav]

Anti Tank ElementsView attachment 35166 View attachment 35167 View attachment 35168 View attachment 35169 View attachment 35170 View attachment 35171 View attachment 35172
View attachment 35173 View attachment 35175

Some more Anti Tank elements

SANT is also slated to be armed on Rustom 2, currently sounds like not so believable but is on the agenda