India Cold Start Doctrine and Pakistan's Tactical Nukes

[Bhadra]

pakistan exist today.why do you think that you deserves all land? there is no logic.there were different groups living in india and even today,muslims can't speak anything against major indian political parties.is this fair?

Upgrade yourself and read something about Indian politics. Muslims are the only community which is highly pampered for being 14% voters and wooed by all major poltical parties - Congress, Communists, Socialist, BSP, JD, JD (U), TMC, Biju Janta Dal, DMK, AIDMK, TRS etc etc. There only problem is "No appeasement" policy of Modi's BJP.

and you know about food problems and religion problems.british took india from muslims and not from hindus

My bloody foot !
Do not repeat here where they teach you in madrasas.
.Muslims all over India except Delhi had been had by the Marathas Hindus. British actually took over India from Marathas. What Muslims? There was nothing Muslims except that bankrupt Delhi which was given to Bahadur Shah Zafar lo live in for an yearly tribute..

you are lucky to have a big country and we are unlucky to have such a smaller country.british did injustice in partition but that's okay.that's fine.

What percentage of Indian population composed Pakistan and what percent of Indian territory they carried with them ? Give me those figures and then talk.

i think with kashmir,everything will calm down but not on indian terms.there are also people living in pakistan.we can't think about india every time.so much corruption unemployment here but at least we can do whatever we want in our country.you are making fun of jinnah but he did a great job.nothing happened on 1991. do you want pakistan to abandon kashmir just like bangladesh? this will not happen.i don't care about jehad.i am sick and tired of all blames on us.they aren't true.

Kashmir was never an issue. The issue is two nation theory and false Muslim claims. The real issue is your Mullaha, Military and Muslim Militants.

 

[Bhadra]

@Arsalan123

you are banned on the other thread does not mean this thread is a "chit chat" thread.
You have totally spoiled the subject.
Remain confined to "Cold Start" ...

 

[Enquirer]

pakistan exist today.why do you think that you deserves all land? there is no logic.there were different groups living in india and even today,muslims can't speak anything against major indian political parties.is this fair? and you know about food problems and religion problems.british took india from muslims and not from hindus.you are lucky to have a big country and we are unlucky to have such a smaller country.british did injustice in partition but that's okay.that's fine.i think with kashmir,everything will calm down but not on indian terms.there are also people living in pakistan.we can't think about india every time.so much corruption unemployment here but at least we can do whatever we want in our country.you are making fun of jinnah but he did a great job.nothing happened on 1991. do you want pakistan to abandon kashmir just like bangladesh? this will not happen.i don't care about jehad.i am sick and tired of all blames on us.they aren't true.

It's Paki BULLSHIT that Indian Muslims don't have a voice in politics!
Indian Muslims have more or less dictated most of Indian domestic and foreign policies for several decades (India chose not to have diplomatic relations with Israel for 40+ years just to please Indian Muslims).
Also, most of non-Muslims speak for Muslims in India.......that's the sign of a progressive culture. Even in the US the loudest voices in favor of Muslims (or for that matter African Americans) is the White community....
Paki bred bigots won't understand the paradigm of open-progressive culture; they are forever fed on lies, BS & Islamic supremacy !

Pre-British arrival Muslims held less than a third of India. Even if they hypothetically did hold all of India, why should muslims become the rulers of India after the 47 Brexit? It's the selfish, diabolical Islamic ideology to subjugate non-Muslims that's the perennial source of hatred and problem!

Also, despite what most Muslims in the region think almost all of them are south asian converts. It's so stupid for these converts to automatically assume they have Turkish, Persian ancestry. Most get an egg on their face when they do their DNA test! The funniest was when Fareed Zakaria (Indian born US news anchor) declared that his father had told him that they were of Turkish descent....and he expected his DNA results to reflect the same.....but lo! to his shock he was 100% south-asian!!!

Indian Muslims have always enjoyed disproportionate amount of luxuries at the cost of poor non-Muslims! For 70+ years each year 100K Muslims go to Hajj FREE OF COST (Kashmir being predominantly Muslim enjoy this freebie the most). Gratitude is not a virtue exhibited by Islamic fundamentalist bigots!
Also, in which country does a 15% minority blare azaan everyday at 4.45am to wake up everyone...but such a act by majority community would be illegal.

Your ignorance or blatant lying is both pitiful and disgusting!

There are more Muslim billionaires in India than in Pakistan! Muslims in India do much better in life than they do in Pakistan. Pakis 'muslim country' tag is just a empty chest thumping slogan!

All Pakis are deliberately infected with the disease of India/Hindu-hatred. Unless Pakis stop such deliberate infection there will be no peace in the region! Pakis will continue to aspire to kill Indians!

 

[Bhadra]

US EMBASSY CABLE ON COLD START DOCTRINE : WIKILEAKS

When on one hand India's "Cold Start Doctrine" was being conceptualised and Indian Military commanders were trying and testing various shapes of it without the GoI's any commitments and on the other hand inspired attempts were being made by Western sources, Pakistan and Indian agencies to scuttle it, Indian Ambassador in New Delhi, Tim Roemer wrote a cable to USA giving his assessment on the development on 16 Feb 2010.That was subsequently revealed by Wikileaks.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/248971

The summary of the assessment is produces i the succeeding posts.

 

[Bhadra]

US EMBASSY CABLE ON COLD START DOCTRINE : WIKILEAKS

The Concept.​

1. Indian Cold Start Doctrine envisages applying linear ground forces for multiple thrusts, backed by massive fire power well before Pakistan completes its mobilization and international community can intervene.

2. The doctrine emphasizes to strike offensively but without giving battle indicators of mobilization to maintain chances of strategic surprise while remaining below nuclear threshold.

3. Political decision for war would be taken at the outset.

 

[Bhadra]

US EMBASSY CABLE ON COLD START DOCTRINE : WIKILEAKS
Broad Contours
​

1. Traditional operational art of maintaining distinction between strike and defensive formations will be done away with. The war is planned to be fought by integrated Battle Groups (IBGs) synergized / supported by IAF and IN.

2. Since the Integrated Battle Groups would be pre-positioned closer to international border / Line of control, these would commence operations with least build up 1 preparation and would thus achieve surprise.

3. Shaping the Battle Field through New Concept of War (NCW), incorporating all available technical driven assets and fire power platforms like IAF, IN, Artillery & SSMs etcetera would remain the hall mark of lndian offensive.

4. Cold Start scenario would require overwhelming Air superiority and integrated Close Air Support (CAS).

5. Concurrently, Special Forces (SF) would be utilized to create paralyzing effect through operational and strategic interdiction behind enemy defences.

 

[Bhadra]

US EMBASSY CABLE ON COLD START DOCTRINE : WIKILEAKS

Maior Factors Leading to the Conceptualization of Cold Start Doctrine

1. Indian military planners think that there is space available for a short notice, short duration war with curtailed objectives despite the nuclear factor.

2. Nuclear capability has added to Pakistan's security by impinging upon India's liberty of action under the nuclear overhang. As the efficacy of all out conventional war within the nuclear environment became questionable, lndia started studying the possibility of a limited conflict with curtailed application of military instrument and objectives. Therefore, nuclearisation of the Sub-Continent has brought a paradigm shift in the security landscape and strategic balance in the region.

3. To overcome the edge of Pakistani mobilization differential, exploit the initial Pakistani defence vulnerabilities and prevent international intervention, .adoption of Hit and Mobilize Concept was adopted instead of Mobilization and Hit.

4. The lndian military planners felt that the long mobilization period provided space for intervention to the major international players inhibiting lndia from realizing her politico - military aim through application of military instrument.

5. Edifice of the doctrine highlights a shift in lndian Armed Forces in general and Army in particular from a defensive reactive strategic thinking to a more pro active approach by seizing early initiative in any confrontation.

 

[Bhadra]

US EMBASSY CABLE ON COLD START DOCTRINE : WIKILEAKS
Security Implications
​

1. lndian Cold Start Strategy is a threat to strategic stability of South Asia. lndian growing military prowess I capabilities and aggressive designs are implied with war provoking intent by practical manifestation of Cold Start Doctrine.

2. Hit and Mobilize concept would further squeeze space for diplomacy I political maneuvers for avoiding conflict.

3. This strategy is likely to increase the threat in an unpredictable manner at various rungs of the escalation ladder.

4. It is inherently flawed to further engage nuclear South Asia in an arms race rather than diverting the efforts and resources to alleviate the social needs of the poor segments in the societies.

5. Strategic equilibrium presently prevalent in the Subcontinent would be impacted with negative repercussions.

 

[Bhadra]

So what is the US ambassador actually implying and saying :

* That Indian Army will go out of hands of the agencies they can influence and stop military action (means Indian Government and diplomats)

* That the time required for US interventions has been eliminated with this doctrine!

* That their client state Pakistan will be beaten blue without US ability to intervene and help them by stopping Indian military actions.

* That the Pakistans false nuclear bluff breaking down may give India an edge.

* US may not be able to maintain security structure in South Asia based on false parity between India and Pakistan.

As per The US Ambassador's assessment the stakes were high. Indian Politicians, the MEA, an pro Pak intellectual lobby caught on all the theories above and did their best to scuttle Cold Start Doctrine. The massive equipment and ammunition deficiencies which came to light in 2010-13 could not have been an accident St Antony seems to have played a part into it whether by himself or at someones directions. No Army Chief from 2004 -2016 have been allowed to utter a word on "Cold Start Doctrine" or on the contrary made to deny its existence.

 

[Bhadra]

Very sad to hear Horrific rape of 3 year old Kashmiri girl in Bandipora, in Jammu & Kashmir, another brutal reminder of humanitarian nightmare. Is our army or police protector of our innocent civilian or they unable to protect becuase of cloud ?
https://indianexpress.com/article/i...a-sparks-protests-in-valley-5724337/?pfrom=HP

New Member ??
3 Masages
Blaming Indian Army to fail to protect three years old from being raped !!

What an approach to muck Indian Army !!

Do not throw cold water over Cold War discussion thread !!

 

[Anand Bimraj]

New Member ??
3 Masages
Blaming Indian Army to fail to protect three years old from being raped !!

What an approach to muck Indian Army !!

Do not throw cold water over Cold War discussion thread !!

Well according to the prominent nuclear expert Dr. Jaspal states that the NASR is a cost-effective way (due to Pakistan’s resource constraints), to alleviate the rapidly growing conventional asymmetries between India and Pakistan and to counter the threat of limited war. In a nutshell, Nasr has poured cold water on Cold Start Doctrine and this weapon system has augmented full spectrum deterrence posture while, remaining within the precincts of the policy of credible minimum deterrence, against prevailing and evolving threat spectrum more effectively including ballistic missile defense and other air defense systems.
That is why injecting this Hot topic on Cold Water Doctorine.
the night of February 26, 2019 Nevertheless, had such a strike planned and executed from a military standpoint instead of a political on but everybody think of Indian military instrument CSD being a failed concept must understand that it was just a trailer of Cold Start Doctrine.
Jai Hind.

 

[aghamarshana]

Well according to the prominent nuclear expert Dr. Jaspal states that the NASR is a cost-effective way (due to Pakistan’s resource constraints), to alleviate the rapidly growing conventional asymmetries between India and Pakistan and to counter the threat of limited war. In a nutshell, Nasr has poured cold water on Cold Start Doctrine and this weapon system has augmented full spectrum deterrence posture while, remaining within the precincts of the policy of credible minimum deterrence, against prevailing and evolving threat spectrum more effectively including ballistic missile defense and other air defense systems.
That is why bringing this Hot topic on Cold Water Doctorine.
Jai Hind.

Regarding NASR, please go through the thread from the beginning where it was discussed to a great length vis-a-vis CSD.

 

[mystic avatar]

Very sad to hear Horrific rape of 3 year old Kashmiri girl in Bandipora, in Jammu & Kashmir, another brutal reminder of humanitarian nightmare. Is our army or police protector of our innocent civilian or they unable to protect becuase of cloud ?
https://indianexpress.com/article/i...a-sparks-protests-in-valley-5724337/?pfrom=HP

What does it have to do with cold start doctrine thread???????? Are you just trolling???

 

[sorcerer]

What does it have to do with cold start doctrine thread???????? Are you just trolling???

Hes here with the PSYWAR cookie!

 

[Brimstone]

according to the prominent nuclear expert Dr. Jaspal

Are you talking about Dr. Zafar Nawaz Jaspal of Quaid-i-Azam University, Islamabad ? Since when did he became "prominent" ?

Jai Hind.

We see through you niggr. No need to pretend. First a post on rape blaming IA then quoting some sub par professor on Nasr. Good try though.

 

[aghamarshana]

For novices my advice is, go through the previous discussions from the start and also follow keenly the senior members and take time to learn the basics regarding any topic before posting stuff.
It'd help in the long run and keeps the thread clean too.

 

[Anand Bimraj]

Are you talking about Dr. Zafar Nawaz Jaspal of Quaid-i-Azam University, Islamabad ? Since when did he became "prominent" ?
We see through you niggr. No need to pretend. First a post on rape blaming IA then quoting some sub par professor on Nasr. Good try though.

I didn't know that you become so serious litreally put efforts to try to google that name and link to him, nice google knoweldgle without going into deep as soon as you speak the relailty , you link easily anoyone to anyone .keep try bye

 

[Brimstone]

I didn't know that you become so serious litreally put efforts to try to google that name and link to him, nice google knoweldgle without going into deep as soon as you speak the relailty , you link easily anoyone to anyone .keep try bye

Bye-bye. Take care..........................

 

[Immanuel]

Cold start is a decade old doctrine, all I can say is that this doctrine has evolved into another more for formidable doctrine.

 

[Anand Bimraj]

Cold start is a decade old doctrine, all I can say is that this doctrine has evolved into another more for formidable doctrine.

agreed ,Ajit K. Doval had acquired a deserved reputation as a hawk. Doval doctrine” it is perhaps because it has had a kind of a soft launch mix with Cold Start . We are seeing his doctorine footing a print to spark soft launch of Cold Start and seeing the result.Lets see how much on the other side handle his pressure or they'll find some relief valve.