India-China Border conflict

[Blademaster]

Lol at winning mentality.... There is a difference between winning mentality & straight up suicide. Paxtanis carried Same winning mentality and got their a**s kicked by Hindu Indian fouj.
There exists a significant military gap & capability of India and China.... Khud ki MIC develop karo fir sochna unki lene ki.. Fighter squadrons are limited & old... Rocket artillery is non existent compared to them.. Less said about missile capability and numbers the better.
We need a dedicated 10-15 years of robust planning to mount a successful offensive strike.. Abhi Ghanta kuch nahi hai. Jazba Junoon only works up to a point.

To win you need to go on the offensive. You cannot have a defensive mindset. The best defense is a good offense.

 

[cereal killer]

To win you need to go on the offensive. You cannot have a defensive mindset. The best defense is a good offense.

To do offense you need offensive capability... Abhi nahi hai.. Abhi jo hai usko bachao.

 

[jai jaganath]

That's exactly what I'm also saying. In some cases we've pulled back from our own soil or lost access to areas where we used to patrol, in other cases we've pushed then back to their lines.
We haven't recovered anything.

That's why we must push for pre-59 lines. We mustn't recognise any present Chinese positions as legitimate & keep violating the line to patrol till our pre-war positions.View attachment 248812

Counter salami slicing is not possible by us due to lack of infrastructure and poor war fighting equipments and readiness compared to them
But the point is have such advantages they couldn't achieve any significant changes in their favour and presently situation at borders is very similar to pre 2020 I mean posts and structures
Both losing patrolling rights temporarily
Even Chinese sm reported the same
On other hand making us more hostile towards them in future
This shows they need to improve their military fineness wrt operations and they have learnt a lot during these clashes

 

[Bleh]

That's exactly what I'm also saying. In some cases we've pulled back from our own soil or lost access to areas where we used to patrol, in other cases we've pushed then back to their lines.
We haven't recovered anything.

That's why we must push for pre-59 lines. We mustn't recognise any present Chinese positions as legitimate & keep violating the line to patrol till our pre-war positions.View attachment 248812

Another reference, I'm sharing a map i had from Peking Today of Chink article about territories claimed to be theirs that India had occupied & extended presence into before hostilities broke out.

@jai jaganath in a no-guns push around scenario those are secondary. We're not making an actually war, just keep pushing to remind than of the claim. The moment we stop, they win & will consolidate there just like Aksai Chin.
Then when the do build-up we can't do shit like we now go in & dismantle them.

 

[jai jaganath]

Another reference, I'm sharing a map i had from Peking Today of Chink article about territories claimed to be theirs that India had occupied & extended presence into before hostilities broke out.View attachment 248842

@jai jaganath in a no-guns push around scenario those are secondary. We're not making an actually war, just keep pushing to remind than of the claim. The moment we stop, they win & will consolidate there just like Aksai Chin.
Then when the do build-up we can't do shit like we now go in & dismantle them.

Exactly
And it's impossible to always maintain the tempo of action and counter response coz we have a lot of depending factors like political bureaucratic and economic issues

 

[Bleh]

Exactly
And it's impossible to always maintain the tempo of action and counter response coz we have a lot of depending factors like political bureaucratic and economic issues

In any case, my orginal opinion stands. Aksai Chin is too far gone from the beginning, both both physical & political factors. We'd be better if securing a natural border with scientific backing that sounds with what we once took & held with enough success to spook China.

That'll give us room to deal with PoK (or atleast grab parts of Sindh instead of Gilgit, which is also similar. We've only had contested presence upto Skardu, Baltistan during the '48 war).

 

[Zoid Raptor]

PLA practicing fighting with bayonets to milk the opponent

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Problem was that Indian security establisment was so much high on Amreeki assurance chooran that they were sure that Pakistan will not use either F-16s or BVR weapons against India.

This is the level of thinking/coginitive dissonance in our MoD and Mil-Estab.

I don't think there is any trust of Americans ? If a 60 year old MIG shot down
a F-16 then there must have been thorough knowledge of the plane and it's
vulnerability and preparation?? F-16's still get shot down even with all the
hype.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1FU093/#:~:text=The%20F%2D16%2C%20one%20of,an%20Israeli%20official%20told%20Reuters

.

Israeli jet shot down after bombing Iranian site in Syria

 

[mokoman]

looks like aksai chin

 

[Master Chief]

Unless there is a nuclear exchange, India has no conventional capability of targeting Chinese cities in a meaningful sense. To pull off what you are envisioning, India does certainly need to step up its MIC infrastructure on a grand scale and match Chinese industrial output.

I have long pondered about this.. Right now India can pummel Central China cities like Chengdu, with large number of missiles.. but the beating heart of the Chinese economy lies in the eastern seaboard and we can't lob huge vollies on Beijing or Shanghai..
So, we need SSGNs, with huge complement of long range cruise that can fire these missiles at eastern China from the First Island Chain..
@everyone, US converted some of its SSBNs to SSGNs.. Will some of our S4 and S4* actually be SSGNs rather than SSBNs ? DO we have any SSGN program ?

 

[patriots]

China has long prepared for this ....and Indias preparation was pakistan centric
Now we are trying to pace with china ,it will take time....

 

[Azaad]

I have long pondered about this.. Right now India can pummel Central China cities like Chengdu, with large number of missiles.. but the beating heart of the Chinese economy lies in the eastern seaboard and we can't lob huge vollies on Beijing or Shanghai..
So, we need SSGNs, with huge complement of long range cruise that can fire these missiles at eastern China from the First Island Chain..
@everyone, US converted some of its SSBNs to SSGNs.. Will some of our S4 and S4* actually be SSGNs rather than SSBNs ? DO we have any SSGN program ?

Taking out sites in Eastern & Southern China requires Intermediate Range BMs or CMs. Anything above 500 kms as far as BMs go are N tipped & under the control of the SFC.

We don't have many CMs of that range in our arsenal as the various derivatives of Nirbhay are still under development.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

China has long prepared for this ....and Indias preparation was pakistan centric
Now we are trying to pace with china ,it will take time....

who's fault is that???

 

[Azaad]

 

[Azaad]

 

[Master Chief]

Taking out sites in Eastern & Southern China requires Intermediate Range BMs or CMs. Anything above 500 kms as far as BMs go are N tipped & under the control of the SFC.

We don't have many CMs of that range in our arsenal as the various derivatives of Nirbhay are still under development.

True, After Galwan some Nirbhays with Russian engine were deployed.. But, Nirbhay will be primarily for Central China targets.. Eastern Seaboard is beyond reach right now.. except when nuking Shanghai or Beijing..

 

[Azaad]

True, After Galwan some Nirbhays with Russian engine were deployed.. But, LTCM will be primarily for Central China targets.. Eastern Seaboard is beyond reach right now.. except when nuking Shanghai or Beijing..

Nothing is out of reach. It's not a question of capabilities but of capacities & will . China has a large inventory of BMs both with conventional & N tipped warheads. What's preventing us from emulating them ?

After all both of us have a NFU policy. What if China begins their operations with a barrage of BMs armed wuth conventional warhead targeting what they suspect are our N silos.

 

[Jimih]

We'd be better if securing a natural border with scientific backing

"Scientific Backing" is not equal to Han Chinese random Cartographic Aggression.

 

[Bleh]

"Scientific Backing" is not equal to Han Chinese random Cartographic Aggression.

Ofcourse not, I meant the watershed like we're doing in Arunachal. See last page posts. I meant starting our present demarcation negotiations demanding they pull back to this that roughly matches pre-62 line, instead of pulling away to form buffers & giving up access to patrolling points...

Whole Galwan & Chipchap river watershed should be contested by maintaining presence or penetrating patrols. Baki ka hissa bad me dekha jayega, jab hoga tab hoga.

 

[Blademaster]

To do offense you need offensive capability... Abhi nahi hai.. Abhi jo hai usko bachao.

Not with a defensive mindset you will. Having an offensive mindset means that you have the will and intention to get the tools you need to get offensive capability. Having a defensive mindset means forgoing the intention of getting offensive capability.