IN Scorpene Submarines - News & Discussions

Lonewolf

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for some reason India seems to like to build only a few of each type of vessel. Reports indicate that India needs and wants more subs. Indians already know how to build the Scorpene. The line is set up and running efficiently. Why not just make more Scorpenes (with the AIP)? USA develops a type and then build them in great numbers for production efficiency.

PS I am not French. I will not profit from any sub purchase India makes no matter the company/nation India deals with.
We all want that ,too ,we have our own aip now , brahmos ashm can be integrated with vls , will require major redesign and power requirement will ruse too , but will be better than what we have , also we can develop a aegis type combat management and network centric system , standard fit on all ship withhelp of LnT company , but neh ,navy don't want it .
 

Abdus Salem killed

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Look at the delusions on pdf

@bossman
One of those DRDO PR stunts. Phosphoric Fuel Cell are very dangerous for mobile platforms especially submarines, which are subject to external shocks. I hope they install them on all their submarines. They will make life easier for PN depth charges. The technology has been there for a very long time. If it was relevant for AIPs many other countries would already been using it. Do some research before you celebrate. Taken for a ride by your own people, again!

But actually it's the most advanced how do we stop this slander to our country

The phosphoric acid fuel cell (PAFC) was first developed by United Technologies
Corporation (UTC) in the USA for operation on primary hydrocarbons such as
methane, petroleum products and coal. The oil embargo of the early seventies made
many USA electric utilities interested in pursuing PAFC development for central
power application.
The most suitable operating temperature is at 190-200 °C, since at lower temperatures
the acid is a poor ionic conductor and at higher temperatures material stability of the
carbon and platinum components in the cell is limiting. The electrolyte is highly
concentrated, so can be very corrosive at higher operating temperatures. There are no
water management problems because the water vapor pressure is low, and equilibrium
is achieved between the rate of water removal by the reactant gases and the rate of
water production.
The utilisation of primary hydrocarbons as the fuel source requires that a steam
reformer processing unit be incorporated in the system to convert the primary
hydrocarbons into hydrogen and carbon dioxide. As a consequence, the overall
efficiency is reduced to 40% for chemical to electrical energy conversion. However, the
conversion efficiency of chemical energy to electrical energy plus recoverable heat is
near 80%. The heat produced can be used by the reformers in the fuel processing unit,
or used for process heat or space heating depending on the application of the fuel cell.
External reforming technology has been demonstrated for naptha and diesel or fuel
oils.

Both the anode and cathode consist of platinum electrocatalyst supported on carbon
with a fluorocarbon binder. Initially the electrode performance (especially on the
cathode) was quite sluggish, and needed to be improved. Major effort in this area
brought on the development of appropriate carbon blacks and graphite cell
components. These electrode structures now perform satisfactorily up to 40,000 hours.
As temperature and pressure increase, corrosion stability becomes a problem, therefore
alternative electrocatalysts such as TiC are under examination .
The PAFC is more resistant to CO and C02 (which acts as a diluent) contamination
than the alkaline fuel cell, however the PAFC only offers average cell efficiency.
Operation at elevated temperatures ensures adequate tolerance to small levels of CO
from the fuel processor section and provides useful waste heat. Electrolyte starvation
in electrodes is a significant cause of observed cell decay, so improved electrolyte
management is required with the constant addition of electrolyte to reduce the voltage
decay83
.
The PAFC technology is the most advanced for terrestrial application (see Table 2).
Systems ranging from 1 kW to 11 MW have been designed, built and tested, for both
on-site power and heating applications (12.5 kW and 40 kW demonstrations), and for
utility power generation (4.5 MW and 11 MW demonstrations)24
-
84'
85
.
At present, various American and Japanese utilities are commencing operation of 200
kW units running on reformed natural gas. These are produced by ONSI Corp., a
subsidiary of International Fuel Cells (a joint venture between UTC and Toshiba),
which has 56 world wide orders for these units, the first being delivered in 1992 8

 
Last edited:

Abdus Salem killed

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Lonewolf

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Is their any indigenous diesel submarine design in work , we should have started development incorporating drdo aip and all of our indigenous system and more system should have been developed indigenously ,would be cheaper , timeline would be shortened.

We have scorpene design as reference , improve and indigenize it
 

BON PLAN

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for some reason India seems to like to build only a few of each type of vessel. Reports indicate that India needs and wants more subs. Indians already know how to build the Scorpene. The line is set up and running efficiently. Why not just make more Scorpenes (with the AIP)? USA develops a type and then build them in great numbers for production efficiency.

PS I am not French. I will not profit from any sub purchase India makes no matter the company/nation India deals with.
I think the french design will gain the next order.
 

Okabe Rintarou

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Is their any indigenous diesel submarine design in work , we should have started development incorporating drdo aip and all of our indigenous system and more system should have been developed indigenously ,would be cheaper , timeline would be shortened.

We have scorpene design as reference , improve and indigenize it
P-76 class.
 

Okabe Rintarou

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IndianHawk

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Look at the delusions on pdf

@bossman
One of those DRDO PR stunts. Phosphoric Fuel Cell are very dangerous for mobile platforms especially submarines, which are subject to external shocks. I hope they install them on all their submarines. They will make life easier for PN depth charges. The technology has been there for a very long time. If it was relevant for AIPs many other countries would already been using it. Do some research before you celebrate. Taken for a ride by your own people, again!

But actually it's the most advanced how do we stop this slander to our country

The phosphoric acid fuel cell (PAFC) was first developed by United Technologies
Corporation (UTC) in the USA for operation on primary hydrocarbons such as
methane, petroleum products and coal. The oil embargo of the early seventies made
many USA electric utilities interested in pursuing PAFC development for central
power application.
The most suitable operating temperature is at 190-200 °C, since at lower temperatures
the acid is a poor ionic conductor and at higher temperatures material stability of the
carbon and platinum components in the cell is limiting. The electrolyte is highly
concentrated, so can be very corrosive at higher operating temperatures. There are no
water management problems because the water vapor pressure is low, and equilibrium
is achieved between the rate of water removal by the reactant gases and the rate of
water production.
The utilisation of primary hydrocarbons as the fuel source requires that a steam
reformer processing unit be incorporated in the system to convert the primary
hydrocarbons into hydrogen and carbon dioxide. As a consequence, the overall
efficiency is reduced to 40% for chemical to electrical energy conversion. However, the
conversion efficiency of chemical energy to electrical energy plus recoverable heat is
near 80%. The heat produced can be used by the reformers in the fuel processing unit,
or used for process heat or space heating depending on the application of the fuel cell.
External reforming technology has been demonstrated for naptha and diesel or fuel
oils.

Both the anode and cathode consist of platinum electrocatalyst supported on carbon
with a fluorocarbon binder. Initially the electrode performance (especially on the
cathode) was quite sluggish, and needed to be improved. Major effort in this area
brought on the development of appropriate carbon blacks and graphite cell
components. These electrode structures now perform satisfactorily up to 40,000 hours.
As temperature and pressure increase, corrosion stability becomes a problem, therefore
alternative electrocatalysts such as TiC are under examination .
The PAFC is more resistant to CO and C02 (which acts as a diluent) contamination
than the alkaline fuel cell, however the PAFC only offers average cell efficiency.
Operation at elevated temperatures ensures adequate tolerance to small levels of CO
from the fuel processor section and provides useful waste heat. Electrolyte starvation
in electrodes is a significant cause of observed cell decay, so improved electrolyte
management is required with the constant addition of electrolyte to reduce the voltage
decay83
.
The PAFC technology is the most advanced for terrestrial application (see Table 2).
Systems ranging from 1 kW to 11 MW have been designed, built and tested, for both
on-site power and heating applications (12.5 kW and 40 kW demonstrations), and for
utility power generation (4.5 MW and 11 MW demonstrations)24
-
84'
85
.
At present, various American and Japanese utilities are commencing operation of 200
kW units running on reformed natural gas. These are produced by ONSI Corp., a
subsidiary of International Fuel Cells (a joint venture between UTC and Toshiba),
which has 56 world wide orders for these units, the first being delivered in 1992 8

Stop wasting time on porky forums . Science and porky do not match.
 

Abdus Salem killed

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No it just makes me so mad only 1 type of AIP is better than solid fuel type phosphate
All USA and Japan uses phosphorus type AIP and these pakis are claiming they are bad
It makes my blood boil
AIP_Table.jpg
Screenshot_2021-03-10-15-56-43-758_com.adobe.reader.jpg
Screenshot_2021-03-10-15-57-55-996_com.adobe.reader.jpg
Screenshot_2021-03-10-16-02-06-642_com.adobe.reader.jpg
Screenshot_2021-03-10-16-02-10-180_com.adobe.reader.jpg
Screenshot_2021-03-10-08-56-29-108_com.android.chrome.jpg


See the delusions of the paki bastard
Screenshot_2021-03-10-16-05-33-379_com.android.chrome.jpg
Screenshot_2021-03-10-16-05-39-638_com.android.chrome.jpg
Screenshot_2021-03-10-16-05-43-641_com.android.chrome.jpg






[/URL]

fuel cell air independent propulsion of submarines peter l. mart and jenny margeridis.pdf

Even Chinese sterling based reactors are worse
 
Last edited:

Neeraj Mathur

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No it just makes me so mad only 1 type of AIP is better than solid fuel type phosphate
All USA and Japan uses phosphorus type AIP and these pakis are claiming they are bad
It makes my blood boil
View attachment 81138View attachment 81141View attachment 81142View attachment 81143View attachment 81144View attachment 81145

See the delusions of the paki bastardView attachment 81146View attachment 81147View attachment 81148





[/URL]



Even Chinese sterling based reactors are worse
one thing i understood while listening to pakis rants is that in their mind what ever they have is better than anything and everything you have.

they find comparison and logic's that even defy the laws for physics and science.

Take every paki post as comedy circus.
 

Abdus Salem killed

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citeseerx.ist.psu.edu › viewdocPDF
Fuel Cell Air Independent Propulsion of Submarines Peter L. Mart and Jenny ...

And then this paki bastard is saying cow cola as a way to demean others what nerve

Only one german tech sub type 214 is better than phosphorus variants with a record of 18 days as to 14 days in the case of phosphorus based ones but it's experimental and very expensive

It features diesel propulsion with an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system using Siemens polymer electrolyte membrane (PEM) hydrogen fuel cells. The Type 214 submarine is derived from the Type 212


The Chinese sterling based that they got from swizerland ones and Pakistani turkey meaning Italy stolen MESMA are worse in comparison

The sterling is a hazard BCS of hydrogen
And the MESMA one is a clunky piece of sht



Screenshot_2021-03-10-08-56-29-108_com.android.chrome.jpg
 
Last edited:

fire starter

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No it just makes me so mad only 1 type of AIP is better than solid fuel type phosphate
All USA and Japan uses phosphorus type AIP and these pakis are claiming they are bad
It makes my blood boil
View attachment 81138View attachment 81141View attachment 81142View attachment 81143View attachment 81144View attachment 81145

See the delusions of the paki bastardView attachment 81146View attachment 81147View attachment 81148





[/URL]

fuel cell air independent propulsion of submarines peter l. mart and jenny margeridis.pdf

Even Chinese sterling based reactors are worse
Dude stop posting inbreds post here it is degrading quality of this forum.
 

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