IN Scorpene Submarines - News & Discussions

[aditya g]

Varunastra is not designed for submarines. It is for ship borne 533 torp tubes which in our navy are of Russian spec length. Varunastra cannot fit inside euro spec scorpenes and type-1500s

 

[Gessler]

Any chance that the INS Kalvari combat system can accomodate the F21 Heavyweight Torpedo if the deal with Finmeccanica gets stuck in limbo ? The two torpedoes seem very similar.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...s-to-deliver-first-f21-torpedoes-in-2016.html

@Gessler

I'm not very sure myself where IN is going with the torpedo procurement. Probably because I never really followed that particular program. Ideally, the issues in dealing with Italian companies should be sorted legally and the Black Shark should be purchased ASAP.

If that's not possible, then there could be 2 ways to go. On one hand, sign a fast Govt-to-Govt deal for HWTs with any international manufacturer - which may include the F21 (that's if a competitive bidding process is considered too time-consuming) for the immediate needs while pursuing indigenous development (Varunastra) on the other hand.

About the Varunastra, I haven't followed that program either so I can't really say if it's good to go for service or if it's still deficient in some way.

 

[Tactical Frog]

Apparently the Brazilian Scorpene subs will feature the F21 ... but this program is running in trouble with budgetary problems .

Very cool vid on Youtube from DCNS :

https://www.youtube.com/embed/YbeQmfXE0ws

 

[garg_bharat]

Ideally, the issues in dealing with Italian companies should be sorted legally and the Black Shark should be purchased ASAP.

It is impossible as legal proceedings are going on in Italian courts.

Indian investigative agencies are following the case, not leading.

This will not get resolved for another five years at least.

 

[garg_bharat]

Varunastra is not designed for submarines. It is for ship borne 533 torp tubes which in our navy are of Russian spec length. Varunastra cannot fit inside euro spec scorpenes and type-1500s

Which torpedo is carried by Arihant class?

 

[aditya g]

Which torpedo is carried by Arihant class?

It should be Russian origin torps.

 

[garg_bharat]

Varunastra is not designed for submarines. It is for ship borne 533 torp tubes which in our navy are of Russian spec length. Varunastra cannot fit inside euro spec scorpenes and type-1500s

A heavyweight torpedo like the Varunastra is fired from a submarine or ship. “This torpedo is wire-guided. In other words, the guidance wire acts as a medium for communication of data between the torpedo and the firing platform (ship or submarine). The wire is also a medium to communicate data to guide the torpedo towards the target during the underwater run,” the NSTL official said. “DRDO has developed guidance wire spools for wire-guided torpedoes like Varunastra. This system has undergone sea trials and performed satisfactorily. DRDO has also developed an onboard instrumentation system for torpedoes.”
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/torpedo-all-set-for-user-trial/story-4lEjmYemMYQ1PJ56iG0CnO.html

The NSTL has developed both light-water torpedoes (LWTs), named TAL, and heavy-weight torpedoes (HWTs), named Takshak and Varunastra. Takshak has two versions, a submarine-launched variant with wire guidance and a ship-launched one with autonomous guidance. Varunastra is an advanced version of the ship-launched HWT. Under development is a torpedo called Shakti with thermal propulsion, which can generate 500 kilowatt of power and rev up the engine within a second.
http://www.frontline.in/static/html/fl2905/stories/20120323290509800.htm

 

[garg_bharat]

Varunastra torpedo induction next year

Developed by NSTL, it is to be fired from submarine to hit enemy ships

Weighing 1,500 kg, it can hit a target within a range of 30 km

It is equipped with high-speed electric propulsion

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-pape...orpedo-induction-next-year/article1401013.ece

 

[garg_bharat]

There were vigorous tests of Varunastra torpedo in 2015. MOD blacklisted the Italian supplier in July 2014, and logically should have worked out the impact.

In my view a wire guided torpedo is more suitable for submarine launch. A ship may better use autonomous search torpedo as it may use its higher speed to exit the scene. In a ship vs sub duel, it is likely that sub will detect the ship first and launch a torpedo first. The ship should fire and run once it detects the sub, as there is good chance to outrun the torpedo; rather than wait and hold the wire (and so stay close to the sub).

Varunastra has been long time in the making, and was supposed to go to user trials in 2012.

 

[Saichand K]

A heavyweight torpedo like the Varunastra is fired from a submarine or ship. “This torpedo is wire-guided. In other words, the guidance wire acts as a medium for communication of data between the torpedo and the firing platform (ship or submarine). The wire is also a medium to communicate data to guide the torpedo towards the target during the underwater run,” the NSTL official said. “DRDO has developed guidance wire spools for wire-guided torpedoes like Varunastra. This system has undergone sea trials and performed satisfactorily. DRDO has also developed an onboard instrumentation system for torpedoes.”
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/torpedo-all-set-for-user-trial/story-4lEjmYemMYQ1PJ56iG0CnO.html

The NSTL has developed both light-water torpedoes (LWTs), named TAL, and heavy-weight torpedoes (HWTs), named Takshak and Varunastra. Takshak has two versions, a submarine-launched variant with wire guidance and a ship-launched one with autonomous guidance. Varunastra is an advanced version of the ship-launched HWT. Under development is a torpedo called Shakti with thermal propulsion, which can generate 500 kilowatt of power and rev up the engine within a second.
http://www.frontline.in/static/html/fl2905/stories/20120323290509800.htm

It is commonly misquoted in media as varunastra. Actually varunastra is ship borne. The submarine launched version of the same Takshak is still under development. There is also a thermal torpedo under development by NSTL.

 

[garg_bharat]

It is commonly misquoted in media as varunastra. Actually varunastra is ship borne. The submarine launched version of the same Takshak is still under development. There is also a thermal torpedo under development by NSTL.

Any evidence for your argument?

From NSTL website:

"NSTL has taken up a two-pronged approach for development of a light weight anti submarine torpedo and a heavy weight wire guided torpedo Varunastra, Takshak, Thermal Torpedo that can be fired against a ship or submarine."

Takshak is called a "thermal torpedo".

Even thermal torpedo is said to be ready in 2011 as per DRDO magazine Tech Focus.

 

[Gessler]

Thanks to @PARIKRAMA Great find, mate! @Tactical Frog

 

[Tactical Frog]

Reading about australian subs deal and found about " Magtronic " system from Jeumont Electric . It is on all Scorpene since 1999. Sounding pretty cool !

http://www.jeumontelectric.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/JE-Marine.pdf

 

[Gessler]

@bose @porky_kicker Can't say I didn't warn you that this would happen...

Implementation of DRDO developed AIP System into fifth and Sixth Scorpene submarines not flexible : MDL Chairman

Chairman & Managing Director, Rear Admiral (Retd) R K Shrawat of State-owned Mazagon Dock Ltd (MDL) while speaking to media recently said that MDL is prepared to take on Hull Integrator responsibility for DRDO developed AIP Systems but considering present timeline of Project-75 and looking at developmental trials of indigenous AIP Systems it appears implementation of indigenous AIP Systems on P75 SM 5 and P75 SM 6 Hulls of Scorpene Submarines may not be feasible .

Scorpene submarines (Project-75) were conceived as non-AIP vessels, integration of indigenous AIP Systems was planned at a later stage since Project-75 suffered four years delays due to various issues in production. DRDO developed AIP technology has only cleared developmental trials on its land-based prototype and developmental trials on land-based submarine section are yet to commence which means indigenous AIP Systems will not be ready at the time fifth and Sixth Scorpene submarines are ready for trials .

Shrawat also said that MDL is open to continuing with Scorpene submarine technology if Government plans to order three more submarines of the same technology as part of the extension of P-75 programme and in regard to Project-75(I) MDL is looking for further orders to optimally utilise its upgraded infrastructure.

Highly reliable sources close to idrw.org have confirmed that DRDO developed indigenous AIP Systems will see operational service in at least 4 Kalvari-class submarine under its upgrade programme even though France’s DCNS had offered its own AIP technology for the 6 Kalvari-class submarines, Indian Navy is keen to go with indigenous AIP Systems.

http://idrw.org/implementation-of-d...corpene-submarines-not-flexible-mdl-chairman/

I don't usually read much into IDRW articles, but this time it's from the horse's mouth. However, I'm not very convinced about upgrading existing Scorpene hulls with AIP as part of a future Mid-Life Upgrade (MLU).

Mr. Shrawat's words also signify the fact that MDL is all game for the idea of ordering more Scorpenes under P-75I instead of tendering for a whole new class of submarines. That is indeed the most logical and practical way to go.

 

[porky_kicker]

@Gessler

AIP will come but with take time due to usual song dance break siesta coma epiphany etc. antics of our defense officials.
MDL will not be the final deciding authority on this issue.

lets wait and see

and additional 3 scorpene under proj. 75 is fine and good decision.

but ordering same scorpene under proj.75i is going to be a stupid decision.

which defeats the very purpose of proj. 75i
new technology ?
new capability ?
etc.

and to be fair i don't trust Indian media reports from anywhere.

 

[WolfPack86]

Maybe it’s difficult to ban it because, some argue, India has Scorpene submarines that need torpedoes, which come from WASS, a subsidiary of Finmeccanica. We have refused it [WASS]. How then will you make Scorpenes functional? I will make it functional, don’t worry about it. Indian make? There are other companies who can supply it… Can’t tell you for security reasons where we will get it from.
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...defence-minister-defence-procurement-2815916/

 

[Zebra]

Maybe it’s difficult to ban it because, some argue, India has Scorpene submarines that need torpedoes, which come from WASS, a subsidiary of Finmeccanica. We have refused it [WASS]. How then will you make Scorpenes functional? I will make it functional, don’t worry about it. Indian make? There are other companies who can supply it… Can’t tell you for security reasons where we will get it from.
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...defence-minister-defence-procurement-2815916/

It is not that hard to get 533 mm (21 inch) size torpedoes for a country like India.

 

[MKM]

It is not that hard to get 533 mm (21 inch) size torpedoes for a country like India.

Integrating that with Scorpenes can be problem.

 

[Kshatriya87]

Govt scraps Rs 1,200 crore deal to procure Torpedoes for submarines

http://www.indiatvnews.com/news/ind...al-to-procure-torpedoes-for-submarines-330860

 

[Zebra]

Integrating that with Scorpenes can be problem.

How much they paid for ToT......!