Imported Single Engine Fighter Jet Contest

[Kay]

If SEF competition gets scrapped, hopefully we get to bring back our prodigal son
---- Marut MK2
We own the design.
HAL has to share it with private companies and we get a cheap fighter as good as Jaguar that we can improve.

 

[Kay]

If SEF competition gets crapped, hopefully we get to bring back our prodigal son
---- Marut MK2
We own the design.
HAL has to share it with private companies and we get a cheap fighter as good as Jaguar that we can improve.

If we share Marut design with all three private aerospace companies, getting our magic number of squadron strength will look easy.

 

[Babloo Singh]

If we share Marut design with all three private aerospace companies, getting our magic number of squadron strength will look easy.

It may be tedious task to get Marut up and running.... basic design is too old.
A design competition between private players, with govt funding & strategic partner status to winner may galvanize the private companies to poach and bring top talent from abroad... good recipe for marut 2 ?

 

[Kay]

It may be tedious task to get Marut up and running.... basic design is too old.
A design competition between private players, with govt funding & strategic partner status to winner may galvanize the private companies to poach and bring top talent from abroad... good recipe for marut 2 ?

All composite airframe and maximum use of commercial technology like Textron Scorpion...IAF needs to realize they cannot have all 4.5 generation fleet at requisite numbers.

 

[smestarz]

Plane like Textron is useful where you have complete air dominance so that this plane can be used, else your enemies do not have credible air force for you to worry. If they have a plane like MiG-21 BIS or Mirage 2000 etc then you are in trouble. We have BAE Hawk which falls in same category, but Hawk might be more versatile and capable than Scorpion

All composite airframe and maximum use of commercial technology like Textron Scorpion...IAF needs to realize they cannot have all 4.5 generation fleet at requisite numbers.

 

[patriots]

www.republicworld.com/s/13469/government-rethinks-on-single-engine-aircraft-project-iaf-skips-a-heartbeat

Government Rethinks On Single Engine Aircraft Project; IAF Skips A Heartbeat

 

[aditya10r]

www.republicworld.com/s/13469/government-rethinks-on-single-engine-aircraft-project-iaf-skips-a-heartbeat

Government Rethinks On Single Engine Aircraft Project; IAF Skips A Heartbeat

Sahi hai sahi hai.

_________________________________________

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

I agree resurrecting HAL MARUT MK 2 is a good option against importing SEF to fill up the squadron strength.
But another good option is to mass produce Tejas with the help of private sector. If the air force comes up with a firm no say 350-400 Shortfall to be filled by Tejas, production rate can be extended from 16-24 to 36-48 with additional assembly lines build by private sector can reach the number in 8-10 years.
Meanwhile ADA can concentrate on AMCA and AURA project.

 

[Kay]

Plane like Textron is useful where you have complete air dominance so that this plane can be used, else your enemies do not have credible air force for you to worry. If they have a plane like MiG-21 BIS or Mirage 2000 etc then you are in trouble. We have BAE Hawk which falls in same category, but Hawk might be more versatile and capable than Scorpion

The Combat Hawk could be a good option. The problem we have is decreased squadron numbers in the next 8 years (till 2025).After that our squadron strength is expected to rise steadily due to Tejas production. We need a stop gap solution in the interim period - all the options are bad and expensive.

 

[Babloo Singh]

The Combat Hawk could be a good option. The problem we have is decreased squadron numbers in the next 8 years (till 2025).After that our squadron strength is expected to rise steadily due to Tejas production. We need a stop gap solution in the interim period - all the options are bad and expensive.

If we are looking for stop gap solution which is better than Ming 21/27 what's harm in buying used M2K, France is replacing approx 70+ units from it's Nuclear strike role by Rafale even Tiwan has approx 60 and not exactly happy.. 3-4 Sq inducted within 6 months and we are free to pursue our Tejas & AMCA at peace.
4-5 Sq of f-16 block 30/40 from US reserves (they have few 100's) will also do the job.... but M2K is preferred as we have experience.
This way we get our second line better than second line of PAK or China & fill the shortage straight away...
Your Views Pls.

 

[no smoking]

If Chinese are not retiring J7s (700 of them), why do we have to retire our Mig 21s because of media pressure? Fly them less often, but don't retire.

Well, because every single part of J7s is produced by Chinese manufacturers, they will be produced continuously until these J7s are retired completely. On the other hand, Russians are shutting down the production lines for the parts of Mig 21s. IAF is even forced to buy the parts of J7s from black market to maintain the Mig 21 fleet.

 

[Kay]

If we are looking for stop gap solution which is better than Ming 21/27 what's harm in buying used M2K, France is replacing approx 70+ units from it's Nuclear strike role by Rafale even Tiwan has approx 60 and not exactly happy.. 3-4 Sq inducted within 6 months and we are free to pursue our Tejas & AMCA at peace.
4-5 Sq of f-16 block 30/40 from US reserves (they have few 100's) will also do the job.... but M2K is preferred as we have experience.
This way we get our second line better than second line of PAK or China & fill the shortage straight away...
Your Views Pls.

We tried to get second hand Mirages from France and Qatar earlier - both asked exhorbitant prices. We are trying to buy a few Malayasian Mig29s for spare parts.
The old airframes can be refurbished if they have not reached the end of their technical lives. Otherwise they can be used to be cannibalized for spares only. So the procurement cost + refurbishment cost + upgrade cost becomes quite high for fighters which can be used only a few years. There are really no good options.

 

[TPFscopes]

www.republicworld.com/s/13469/government-rethinks-on-single-engine-aircraft-project-iaf-skips-a-heartbeat

Government Rethinks On Single Engine Aircraft Project; IAF Skips A Heartbeat

Soon you guys have to start a new thread with heading "MRCA" as government is looking forward for more players in the game by removing Single Engine clause.
Along with this Dassault's LCA modification offer is also under consideration (not accepted yet).

Conference rooms in MoD are too hot and you guys can expect some firm decision/updates within this year.

 

[Kay]

Well, because every single part of J7s is produced by Chinese manufacturers, they will be produced continuously until these J7s are retired completely. On the other hand, Russians are shutting down the production lines for the parts of Mig 21s. IAF is even forced to buy the parts of J7s from black market to maintain the Mig 21 fleet.

IAF should have enough Mig-21 s to cannibalize. Do you have a source on this?

 

[Babloo Singh]

We tried to get second hand Mirages from France and Qatar earlier - both asked exhorbitant prices. We are trying to buy a few Malayasian Mig29s for spare parts.
The old airframes can be refurbished if they have not reached the end of their technical lives. Otherwise they can be used to be cannibalized for spares only. So the procurement cost + refurbishment cost + upgrade cost becomes quite high for fighters which can be used only a few years. There are really no good options.

In case of M2K, when we tried it was still there in France AF's nuclear role & was quiet new in Tiwan.
Things have changed now... France has already replaced half of it's nuke capable M2K with Rafale & Tiwan is kind of not using them optimally, so price asked for today will be different. Add to this fact that Tiwan will be happy to be our friend & France will be happy to keep LM/Boeing/Saab away from India.
So pricing won't be challenge now... also I am not suggesting any upgrade, as even without upgrade these aircraft's will be better than our Mig21/27 and also better than second line of PAK AF.

 

[Kay]

In case of M2K, when we tried it was still there in France AF's nuclear role & was quiet new in Tiwan.
Things have changed now... France has already replaced half of it's nuke capable M2K with Rafale & Tiwan is kind of not using them optimally, so price asked for today will be different. Add to this fact that Tiwan will be happy to be our friend & France will be happy to keep LM/Boeing/Saab away from India.
So pricing won't be challenge now... also I am not suggesting any upgrade, as even without upgrade these aircraft's will be better than our Mig21/27 and also better than second line of PAK AF.

France gains by selling more Rafales and will push for more Rafales.
If SEF is to be cancelled, there has to be a mixed buy of Rafales and retired Mirages.

 

[Babloo Singh]

France gains by selling more Rafales and will push for more Rafales.
If SEF is to be cancelled, there has to be a mixed buy of Rafales and retired Mirages.

True... option for 18 or may be 36 for airforce won't be bad Idea/Carrot.
Or we can talk to them about Rafale M / Project 75i

 

[WolfPack86]

IAF BANKS ON TEJAS, NEW FIGHTER TO BOLSTER FLEET
It has a sanctioned strength of 42 squadrons and a projected requirement of 45 to face the threat of a two-front war

The Indian Air Force (IAF) is looking at the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas and the soon-to-be-procured single-engine fighter jet to arrest a dramatic fall in its squadron strength as the deal for 36 Rafale jets lands in the middle of political maelstrom. “The rate of decommissioning is way higher than the planned and even proposed inductions.

Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas is a good aircraft and 123 LCAs will be inducted in the force as planned. But the numbers are not coming fast enough and the requirement is much beyond that in other categories,” a Defence Ministry source said.

The IAF has a sanctioned strength of 42 squadrons and a projected requirement of 45 to face the anticipated threat of a two-front war. As on date the IAF has 33 squadrons and by the end of next month it will be down to 31 squadrons.

With the planned induction of 36 Rafales between 2019 and 2022, the remaining Sukhoi-30MKIs and some LCAs (Tejas) the strength will hover at 30 till 2027 and in the subsequent five-year term will fall to 27 squadrons. If there are no newer inductions it will slide further to 19 squadrons by 2042.

“IAF is upgrading most of the aircraft in its inventory. But from 2025 onwards most of those aircraft such as the Jaguars and the MiG-29s will start going out,” the source said.

In a month, the IAF is expected to issue the Request for Information (RFI) for over a 100 single-engine fighter aircraft under the Strategic Partnership model. Lockheed F-16 and Saab Gripen are in the race for the order and have already tied up with TATA and Adani, respectively, to build the jets locally with technology transfer.

The IAF has placed orders for 40 jets in two batches of which the first 20 are in the Initial Operational Configuration (IOC) while the remaining 20 are in the Final Operational Configuration (FOC).
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/11/iaf-banks-on-tejas-new-fighter-to.html

 

[WolfPack86]

IAF must order 300 tejas mk 1a.

 

[Kay]

IAF must order 300 tejas mk 1a.

MK1 and MK1a share the same airframe. All Mk 1s will be later upgraded bto MK 1a. IAF can easily order more Mk1s as even Mk1s are more potent than Mig 21s. Fewer orders are causing problems with scaling up of production and attracting private capital.
Their stubbornness is unnecessary costing them and India.