Imported Single Engine Fighter Jet Contest

[VIP]

bro we had not invested in r&d of fighter jets.....we just imported.....imported

we invested in missile technology .now we have intercontinental ballastic missiles..we have ballastic shield s. we have our own bvraam ....

Tejas is the beginning. .......first time we have made something ....next time we will make the best .. .....

same case is with Arjun mbt

if we have to fight a war with Russia...then what will we do . we have only one weapon....it's Stone. .... Stone hurling is the only way .....

our tank is from Russia. our jet is from Russia. .....I am not wise enough to comment on iaf.. official s.......

sorry If I have typed anything wrong....

I'm totally optimistic about brains in India. My rant was against the politics and rats in govt and forces, the lobby, etc. We have never given any chance to private players properly in defence industry and so they never invested in R&D. Our political leadership is responsible for such mess, done only corruption.

 

[Bahamut]

There is no need for F 16 or Gripen E. Try for local manufacturing of Rafale instead. LCA in its present form is far better than Mig 21, it should be inducted, every new platform takes time to mature.
Plus government should start work on a new big factory for aircraft production, in 10 time we will be making pak fa and the first AMCA along with lca mk2. A new factory will be needed.

 

[kamaal]

Its laughable that many people over here are commenting about :

MK2 will have this and that and blah blah thing/tech will make it serious threat and formidable fighter jet.

GUYS!! There is not even a single official specification shared in public domain by HAL or either ADA, MK2 for me is in deep shit and HAL is currently not even looking at it, it is currently devoted to MK1A like hell.

HAL is running against time for its survival and if they even bring the 1st prototype of MK1A before 2020 then I'll consider it as an massive achievement but sadly it looks unlikely, bcoz even after its introduction, remember, IAF will demand clearances i.e. IOC1-2 & FOC, and that'll take the project beyond 2024.

Imported SE is bitter reality which we'll have to accept.

 

[Kshithij]

Please specify the reasons due to which you will think Tejas will be delayed. What is the upgrade in MK2 that you expect to cause delays.

The way I see it, MK2 is just a bigger Tejas and nothing more. It is the subsystems like AESA, EW, engine that is the concern. And these are same specifications for MK2 and MK1A and hence can be developed in parallel.

Speak with reason and evidence. MK1 is rolling out already, FYI. Take this into consideration too

 

[Kshithij]

Its laughable that many people over here are commenting about :

MK2 will have this and that and blah blah thing/tech will make it serious threat and formidable fighter jet.

GUYS!! There is not even a single official specification shared in public domain by HAL or either ADA, MK2 for me is in deep shit and HAL is currently not even looking at it, it is currently devoted to MK1A like hell.

HAL is running against time for its survival and if they even bring the 1st prototype of MK1A before 2020 then I'll consider it as an massive achievement but sadly it looks unlikely, bcoz even after its introduction, remember, IAF will demand clearances i.e. IOC1-2 & FOC, and that'll take the project beyond 2024.

Imported SE is bitter reality which we'll have to accept.

DFI has been lagging and getting stuck since yesterday. I am not sure why. I intended to quote this for the comment above but it got posted before this quote appeared!

 

[kamaal]

Please specify the reasons due to which you will think Tejas will be delayed. What is the upgrade in MK2 that you expect to cause delays.

The way I see it, MK2 is just a bigger Tejas and nothing more. It is the subsystems like AESA, EW, engine that is the concern. And these are same specifications for MK2 and MK1A and hence can be developed in parallel.

Speak with reason and evidence. MK1 is rolling out already, FYI. Take this into consideration too

Lets start one by one :
1). IOC-1 certified in 2011 and IOC-2 in Sept month of 2013 and we are still waiting for FOC in 2017. FOC requires :
a) BVR :- I hope thats done and HAL is probably looking to further improve precision and software update.
b) In-flight refueling : The probe has been attached to LSP-8 and flight test already done, BUT, there is no news regarding the refueling test from last 2-3 months, it should have been conducted by now.
c) Gun fire : Only ground test done, no news regarding integration yet, inform me if there is any I havn't come accross.
All this development took more than 6 years and that to in indigenously designed jet. Thats pathetic.
2). MK2 is just "Bigger Tejas"!!! This shows your understanding about fighter jet, even I am not an expert but at least it is basic knowledge that even a centimeter added in jet has big impact on aerodynamics. So do not expect IAF to give easy clearance to MK2 and expect HAL/ADA to spend years in perfecting the aero data.
3). Now lets talk about MK1A, its specification is offered by HAL, not IAF. HAL's promises to reduce ~200 kg empty weight, but there is no official statement regarding this yet, I hope NDA effect, they are already using composites i.e. 45%, I don't know from where will they reduce that 200 kg, if they even do it, how much time will HAL require to re-certify the MK1A, as this will change the aero performance by big margin.
4). Only positive is that MK1 is under limited production and slowly and gradually getting accepted by IAF as "step-son".

I won't risk getting too optimistic about MK2 due to the first point.

 

[Kshithij]

I think I have told several times that Congress was always a party funded by foreign government. Nehru was installed by British and Mountbatten was left to ensure Nehru consolidated his power.

Shastri was killed and Indira was installed by USSR. And that is also the reason why India was close to USSR.

Some sinister agent again removed Narasimha Rao and installed Sonia Gandhi who hadn't contested even 1 election or campaigned for anyone till then. How could anyone make such a person as president of congress unless she was merely kept as a puppet?

Due to all this, I don't care what happened in UPA time. I would be surprised if anything good happened in defence and technology side during UPA.

The problems with Tejas was not technical nor properly explainable. It is unfortunate that Indians don't lead armed rebellion against people who behave whimsically. But that definitely is not a benchmark to be compared to.

If NDA govt comes back in 2019, then Tejas will move in a speed similar to other countries fighter plane projects.

Now, to answer your other questions -

I understand that Tejas MK2 will involve changes in flight data. But, being an unstable delta wing, Tejas fly-by-wire will have some margin of error and an upgrade in size can be corrected relatively easily with extensive tests in short period of time by flying multiple sorties.

BVR will be upgraded, but that is likely to be modular and will be designed to fit in all kinds if BVR, including Israeli or Russian. Hence that is mostly already taken care of.

Gun fire is old. With today's plane and BVR missiles, maneuverability it is impossible to use gun fire. It is just a triviality.

I don't know what 200kg you are speaking of - there is a ballast in the cone of that amount which will be replaced with AESA. Removing is different from replacing. Also, complicated landing gear will be replaced with simpler ones.

Since MK2A will only involve in size change without design change, the modifications required will be relatively small. Since the subsystems will likely remain same due to modular codes, the matter becomes simpler. That is why I said MK2 is just a bigger Tejas Mk1.

 

[Kshithij]

Lets start one by one :
1). IOC-1 certified in 2011 and IOC-2 in Sept month of 2013 and we are still waiting for FOC in 2017. FOC requires :
a) BVR :- I hope thats done and HAL is probably looking to further improve precision and software update.
b) In-flight refueling : The probe has been attached to LSP-8 and flight test already done, BUT, there is no news regarding the refueling test from last 2-3 months, it should have been conducted by now.
c) Gun fire : Only ground test done, no news regarding integration yet, inform me if there is any I havn't come accross.
All this development took more than 6 years and that to in indigenously designed jet. Thats pathetic.
2). MK2 is just "Bigger Tejas"!!! This shows your understanding about fighter jet, even I am not an expert but at least it is basic knowledge that even a centimeter added in jet has big impact on aerodynamics. So do not expect IAF to give easy clearance to MK2 and expect HAL/ADA to spend years in perfecting the aero data.
3). Now lets talk about MK1A, its specification is offered by HAL, not IAF. HAL's promises to reduce ~200 kg empty weight, but there is no official statement regarding this yet, I hope NDA effect, they are already using composites i.e. 45%, I don't know from where will they reduce that 200 kg, if they even do it, how much time will HAL require to re-certify the MK1A, as this will change the aero performance by big margin.
4). Only positive is that MK1 is under limited production and slowly and gradually getting accepted by IAF as "step-son".

I won't risk getting too optimistic about MK2 due to the first point.

Sorry again for quoting after commenting.

 

[SanjeevM]

As we have sent Kaveri to France and as an offset believe that France will help in getting Kaveri fixed (Though it may not be indigenous Kaveri anyone), can't we work out similar deal for Kaveri with U.S. as an offset of huge weapon systems we are buying from the US. In this way there will be a competition between France and US to show their sincerity to work with India in future and show their trustworthiness.

France can no longer prolong fixing Kaveri and sincerely do what is needed to fix it. This Will help India concentrate on MK2 and AMCA.

Tejas production lines should be given to TATA. HAL should focus on innovation in existing products and development of MK2 and AMCA.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Simple reason. The IAF apparently was critical of the FGFA/Su-57 program when it wanted to get more Rafale fighters. Now, it wants Gripen E/F-16 Block 70s and not just Tejas Mk1/Mk1As, hence it comes up with obviously laughable arguments against the Tejas. the range, endurance, payload, maintenance man-hours all that is being mentioned are not true numbers.

Just for e.g. the endurance of a Tejas on internal fuel only is compared to that of a refuelled endurance for a Gripen E/F-16. Even while the Tejas Mk1 is going through trials to add in-flight refueling capability. Once the Tejas Mk1 can be refueled in air, its endurance will obviously not be 1 hour. Payload is ~3800 kgs, not 3000 kgs. And that is the payload because the IAF wanted a MiG-21 size and class aircraft to replace the MiG-21. Now it seems to want a bigger jet to replace a light jet.

Now the IAF knows very well that a lot of its claims are BS, but if it is claiming such things as obvious advantages of a Gripen E/F-16, then it is clear that the IAF simply is worried that this MoD/GoI will cancel the Single Engine Fighter requirement and is trying its best to avoid that situation arising.

The reason for this whole thing is that the new Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman criticized the IAF for just cribbing about squadron shortage but not presenting any possible solutions. This was followed by the National Security Advisor, Ajit Doval, asking that the SEF requirement be cancelled and the IAF make do with Tejas. This would have set alarm bells ringing within an Air Force that has a history of importing jets and generally not providing the level of support that indigenous programs need.

Source : @Archer

=======================

 

[VIP]

Source : @Archer

=======================

Is this really the case? If this is true, then IAF itself is killing India's indigenous industries. Today TOI reported that both Tejas and Arjun are not gonna be inducted in forces.

 

[aditya10r]

Source : @Archer

=======================

So can we expect similar resistance from NSA and MoD on the FRCV tender??

Hope is not lost.

________________________________________

And what are some possible ways to get India embargoed from purchasing arms?????

 

[Butter Chicken]

As we have sent Kaveri to France and as an offset believe that France will help in getting Kaveri fixed (Though it may not be indigenous Kaveri anyone), can't we work out similar deal for Kaveri with U.S. as an offset of huge weapon systems we are buying from the US. In this way there will be a competition between France and US to show their sincerity to work with India in future and show their trustworthiness.

France can no longer prolong fixing Kaveri and sincerely do what is needed to fix it. This Will help India concentrate on MK2 and AMCA.

Tejas production lines should be given to TATA. HAL should focus on innovation in existing products and development of MK2 and AMCA.

USA is willing to do a similar deal for GE 414 engine but wants India to buy F-16 and F-18 first.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Embargo will also hurt national industry, The only way is to tackle this is to expose these maggots and starve them.

Such knee-jerking response proves this theory ..

And what are some possible ways to get India embargoed from purchasing arms?????

 

[aditya10r]

Embargo will also hurt national industry, The only way is to tackle this is to expose these maggots and starve them.

Such knee-jerking response proves this theory ..

Do you think are we exposing them????

__________________________________________

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Not individually but as a group of people in the organization ..

Do you think are we exposing them????

__________________________________________

 

[xeaaex]

I have several questions about the current foreign maal procurement.

What can a common man do?
Only power common man has is voting.
We voted for a change, now it's upto government to take care of the rest.
Maximum we can do is wait and watch.
If we have any other options kindly explain.

What kind of legal action can be taken against corrupt defence officers?

How does the procurement in defence takes place?; Isn't that upto MOD to finally say yes for the procurement of defence items?; Does that mean MOD can stall the procurement?; Do we have any standardized procurement procedure?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Kshithij]

I don't know if the presstitutes are on overdrive or whether it is insiders. There is simply no proper sources and a sudden spurt in articles which didn't exist before.

The article in TOI says that 'Tejas and Arjun' upgrades are "likely" to be rejected. These articles have no facts but simply keeps saying that an officer said, a LT. general said etc. The same tactics are used by these presstitutes while election opinions where some random villagers are said to be speaking in a very 'predictable' tone!

 

[Suryavanshi]

No way a ranking officer would kill indigenous weapon for free there must be a bribing from foreign industries.
If so we could find out and sack these officers, taking bribes for favours should be criminal offence.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

On Lockheed payroll ..