IAF Mirage 2000

[Defcon 1]

I wonder if Amraams can be mated with the Mirages.

Problem is that Right now the Mirage is outranged by F16. A f16 can fire a 120C5 at dmax, force the mirage to take defensive action,while the mirage wont have a firing solution. This same thing happened to the MKIs.

We seriously need our front line fighters to be not outranged by PAF.

PAF has 4 Erieye, 2 on order. They also have 4 ZDK 03.

India has 3 Phalcons and 2 Netra(may be 3).

So pakistan actually has quantitative superiority.





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IAF only has two Netras and it will remain so. The third EMB-145 will remain with DRDO for R&D.

 

[Neptune]

The S400 uses line of sight radar, it doesn't use back scatter off of the atmosphere like that huge radar I showed. It doesn't have the power which takes as much as a small city to power. S400 is vulnerable to low penetration strike which is why Russians always assign Pantsir to protect it but after Israel decimated Syrian Pantsir, Russians have gone back to the drawing board.



Much of the SAMs on the border are of Israeli origin and they do not like Russian made equipment. Mi-17V5 for instance... they aren't giving the source codes to integrate it with an S400. The US won't allow it.



That is another SAM of Israeli origin that only talks with other Israeli SAMs. This is why India must make a universal data link and install it on everything. As France goes through the Scorpion upgrade to make everything networked, India also needs a similar revolution in military affairs.

The single greatest problem with the Indian military is that things don't talk to each other and they must rely on verbal communication and unlayered pictures of the battlespace. You have one monitor of what the Israeli stuff sees, another monitor of what the Russian stuff sees, then another monitor of what the Indian stuff sees. It is a bunch of jumbled networks that don't talk to each other and relies on human interface to try to decipher and relay that information.

Israelis didn’t “decimate” any Pantsirs, they destroyed two empty and abandoned Pantsirs with swarm attacks. The Israeli mostly hit a few old S-200s and even then one shot down an Israeli F-16. Syria does not have enough Pantsirs or networking to be effective enough to stop every swarm attack Israelis throw at them, and another problem is that the S-200 can’t hit low flying targets.

The S-400 can afford to be far away from threats in order to be out of range of many loitering munitions and HARM type weapons. In the case of Russians bases in Syria they have succeeded in using electronic warfare to jam swarm drone attacks, the byproduct of that is that even GPS signals in Israel has been disabled. So the S-400 would ideally have distance, other short range SAMs and electrics warfare equipment to protect it.

 

[Armand2REP]

Wrong MI-17V5 are flying on the border daily along with several different Russian origin jets Israeli systems don't shoot them down daily it was because of mistake by pilot and the operator.

"The inquiry found that the officers who handled the air defence system at the Srinagar air base mistook the helicopter, returning midway from a mission, for an incoming missile."

How is that a mistake that could have been avoided? The officers can't be expected to know the flight plan of everything at a moments notice. If the system was networked with the Mi-17V5, it would have known automatically that it was an Indian helicopter and not even allowed it to fire without a command override. IFF transponders can be spoofed, that is part of EW capability. This never would have happened with universal data links.

The only thing AFnet did was tear out the telephone lines and replace them with fiber lines. You aren't getting an RMA for only 1000 crore. You will only get that with universal data links that are not limited by fiber lines. The Spyder is a mobile SAM system, was it even hooked up to fiber lines? Probably not or they couldn't have made that mistake.

 

[abhay rajput]

Possible d'entrer en relation pour faire mieux connaissance? Je n'arrive pas à t'envoyer de message privé.

Do you know the range of m2k radar against fi

F-16V is not much older in tech terms than Rafale while F-16 thrumps Rafale in price and has much more weapons integrated and growth potential.

F16 lacks internal ew suite like spectra .. f16 aim120d is shorter ranger BVR than meteor... Rafale RCS is very small compared to f16 latest models.. f18 advanced super hornet RCS is comparable to Rafale ...
Who says f16 is cheap.. Bulgaria bought f16 at 200 million dollars per plane.. more importantly IAF thinks Rafale is better than f18 and f16 latest models that's why they selected this jet ... Now this time in mrca competition price would be the driving factor so I think f18 advanced super hornet have some pretty good chance.. it also uses the same engine as tejas mk2 and navy wil

F 16 is still a big deal no two words about it but it has more to do with USA being the boss and France a declining power but a dependable partner in comparison to USA


And we all agree USA does provide support for its jets for a long period of time and they are available cheaper in comparison to French.

But USA isn't dependable never was. Who knows once they are done with China it will not be India on their target ?

F 18 may have a chance but F 16 is out of question.

"The inquiry found that the officers who handled the air defence system at the Srinagar air base mistook the helicopter, returning midway from a mission, for an incoming missile."

How is that a mistake that could have been avoided? The officers can't be expected to know the flight plan of everything at a moments notice. If the system was networked with the Mi-17V5, it would have known automatically that it was an Indian helicopter and not even allowed it to fire without a command override. IFF transponders can be spoofed, that is part of EW capability. This never would have happened with universal data links.

The only thing AFnet did was tear out the telephone lines and replace them with fiber lines. You aren't getting an RMA for only 1000 crore. You will only get that with universal data links that are not limited by fiber lines. The Spyder is a mobile SAM system, was it even hooked up to fiber lines? Probably not or they couldn't have made that mistake.

No you are wrong about mi17 v5 .. the officer who ordered the hit knew very well that it might be there own chooper rather than a missile, that's just excuse that's why both of them are being court martial.. missiles and helicopters have different radar returns.. moreover that day the primary targets were IAF Srinagar base.. that's one of the reason commanding officer panicked because those h4 sow(120km) were aimed at IAF bases... Once those h4 failed , 3 f16 came close and fired there lgb at army headquarters which also failed that day..

 

[Armand2REP]

No you are wrong about mi17 v5 .. the officer who ordered the hit knew very well that it might be there own chooper rather than a missile, that's just excuse that's why both of them are being court martial.. missiles and helicopters have different radar returns.. moreover that day the primary targets were IAF Srinagar base.. that's one of the reason commanding officer panicked because those h4 sow(120km) were aimed at IAF bases... Once those h4 failed , 3 f16 came close and fired there lgb at army headquarters which also failed that day..

It looks like I am the only one willing to stand up for IAF officers who made a call in the heat of battle. Porkis were in the middle of striking an HQ so they had every reason to believe it to be a missile. In the heat of battle you don't have time to follow a dozen different safety protocols. The entire process should already be predetermined by a universal data link that wouldn't even allow you to fire on a friendly aircraft. This is the High Command just throwing officers under the bus to cover up their jumbled collection of networks that don't talk to each other and a long list of protocols you don't have time to follow in the middle of combat.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Looks like French fanboys in India have drank the Kool-Aid that somehow M2000-5 upgrade will match F-16 of PAF. It won’t because it can’t. PAF is already negotiating SABR upgrade to get AESA on their F-16 as well as few AIM C7.

Indians should be thinking about cutting the lifeline of upgrades for PAF F-16 by purchasing the entire F-21 assembly. No US company will like to sell more to PAF afterwards. These are my personal thoughts.

PAF supply line won't be cut. we have been shelling out billions of dollar in buying American equipments it didn't change them .

The best scenario in terms of weapon is already in Rafale with Meteor
Sukhoi and Migs with R 77- 1 and K -77

Derby ER is in with Asraam on Tejas. After rejection of Meteor with Mirage Derby ER will make way in...on Mirage too soon i guess.

 

[Armand2REP]

The S-400 can afford to be far away from threats in order to be out of range of many loitering munitions and HARM type weapons

The S400 cannot do this...


It is LOS only and limited to the horizon making it vulnerable to low flying attacks.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Wish all of you a Very Very Happy DEEPAVALI and new year.

Jai Siyaram !

 

[Assassin 2.0]

The S400 cannot do this...


It is LOS only and limited to the horizon making it vulnerable to low flying attacks.

Background have indian tabla style music.
This is a beast of a radar huge.

 

[Armand2REP]

Background have indian tabla style music.
This is a beast of a radar huge.

If India was to acquire this radar it could see every square metre of Chinese airspace as well as Pakistan. It has detected a flight of B-2 stealth bombers over Kosovo.

 

[WARREN SS]

If India was to acquire this radar it could see every square metre of Chinese airspace as well as Pakistan. It has detected a flight of B-2 stealth bombers over Kosovo.

after India will launch multiple
NISAR class satellite's India really don't have Rely on Outdated UHF anymore or OTH

 

[Armand2REP]

after India will launch multiple
NISAR class satellite's India really don't have Rely on Outdated UHF anymore or OTH

SAR is for ground mapping, it doesn't work for tracking airbourne objects.

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

The upgraded M2000s have DRFM jamming capability that can spoof an AMRAAM. The way DRFM works is it outputs several decoy returns making one aircraft look like 8-10. That greatly lowers the hit probability of the AMRAAM to 10-15%. The MICA IR is impossible to spoof by F-16 jammers, one shot one kill.

The Mirage needs to be within range to fire the Mica IR. It would be busy dodging amraams long before that. Giving ample opportunity to the f16 to fire any standoff ammunition and escape.

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[Armand2REP]

The Mirage needs to be within range to fire the Mica IR. It would be busy dodging amraams long before that. Giving ample opportunity to the f16 to fire any standoff ammunition and escape.

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If the F-16 is closing that will give the MICA IR range advantage at launch as it is fire and forget. The M2000 can launch to then turn and burn out of range while his missile slams into the Porki fuqer that has to keep his radar on the target.

 

[Jameson Emoni]

Wish all of you a Very Very Happy DEEPAVALI and new year.

Jai Siyaram !

View attachment 39673

I lit 3 diyas tonight. I will light three more diays tomorrow night. Welcome home Lord Rama!

 

[abhay rajput]

The Mirage needs to be within range to fire the Mica IR. It would be busy dodging amraams long before that. Giving ample opportunity to the f16 to fire any standoff ammunition and escape.

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If the F-16 is closing that will give the MICA IR range advantage at launch as it is fire and forget. The M2000 can launch to then turn and burn out of range while his missile slams into the Porki fuqer that has to keep his radar on the target.

The Mirage needs to be within range to fire the Mica IR. It would be busy dodging amraams long before that. Giving ample opportunity to the f16 to fire any standoff ammunition and escape.

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Don't assume that. .! Today's air battles are very complex and having the best doesn't make you win.. remember that Rafale carried mica till now...

 

[AmoghaVarsha]

Ultimately the I Derby ER will go on the mirage. But even that will barely mstch the C5.

India seriously needs a bvr missile with 120km range.

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[Armand2REP]

Don't assume that. .! Today's air battles are very complex and having the best doesn't make you win.. remember that Rafale carried mica till now...

Rafale has Spectra active cancellation, it is practically invisible to anything that doesn't have an AESA radar.

 

[Shiv sagar]

The S400 cannot do this...


It is LOS only and limited to the horizon making it vulnerable to low flying attacks.

There is no sense in arguing that s400 has no beyond horizon tracking capabilities. We are not using s400 as the sole system in our air defence system. It is only a part of AF net which includes so many other large and small radars. So the low flying objects will be picked up by other systems deployed near loc or lac. The advantage of S400 is that it can move instantaneously and it can be deployed in a dispersed manner and thus keep the enemy in guessing mode all the time. Fixed radars cant be deployed so close to loc for survivability.

 

[Armand2REP]

There is no sense in arguing that s400 has no beyond horizon tracking capabilities. We are not using s400 as the sole system in our air defence system. It is only a part of AF net which includes so many other large and small radars. So the low flying objects will be picked up by other systems deployed near loc or lac. The advantage of S400 is that it can move instantaneously and it can be deployed in a dispersed manner and thus keep the enemy in guessing mode all the time. Fixed radars cant be deployed so close to loc for survivability.

The border guards don't even have radar to pick up UAVs so clearly there is a lack of coverage at the LoC. The AFnet doesn't seem to be doing them any good either. This weakness has been exposed and recognised, the only question is what will be done to fix it. Until that is taken care of you wouldn't put S400 anywhere near the border.