IAF MiG-21 shoots down Pakistani F-16

[asianobserve]

Regarding the video analysis, why the hell on Earth do you think that IAF will officially do an analysis of third party videos taken by un-named sources to prove their claim?? They have their own data for that.

That would be better than revealing sensitive military secrets and it has the most impact and believability.

 

[White Wolf]

That would be better than revealing sensitive military secrets and it has the most impact and believability.

Nope it won't!!! It will only lower the credibility of IAF on quoting third party sources as proof of something which they achieved on their own.

 

[aghamarshana]

All I can say is --

Indian Radar Data That Supposedly Proves They Downed An F-16 Is Far From "Irrefutable"
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...s-they-downed-an-f-16-is-far-from-irrefutable

Besides, videos always have more impact on the general public than radar screen grabs that do not show context. Just imagine a press conference by IAF showing these videos with blow-by-blow analysis on why it's the Pakistani F-16... That would be a slum dunk!

The only problem is that these videos clearly do not show an F-16. And the IAF knows it cannot fool anyone with it as these videos can easily be verified once they are plastered on TV screens worldwide by experts and by the persons themselves who took these videos.

Jus coz most public doesn't understand Radar data doesn't mean what they see online on YouTube (the camera clips) is more valid proof in this context.

The radar info which will be analysed by international experts will show an entirely different picture than what Pak peddles into the mainstream.

Why did DGISPR and PM Imran Khan lie that US conducted a count on their F16s(based on a report which appeared on FP).
The Pentagon denied any such counting.

 

[asianobserve]

Nope it won't!!! It will only lower the credibility of IAF on quoting third party sources as proof of something which they achieved on their own.

Why not? As long as the IAF can verify these videos, and it's clear these are really authentic videos uploaded on to Youtube, then it can present them as proof of the F-16 shot down. I certainly will accept them if they are properly verified.

 

[aghamarshana]

Why not? As long as the IAF can verify these videos, and it's clear these are really authentic videos uploaded on to Youtube, then it can present them as proof of the F-16 shot down. I certainly will accept them if they are properly verified.

IAF has radio intercepts of Pakistanis from that day. We already have our evidences which prove the kill Abhi took. So,there no need to take videos frm YouTube(they might or might not be authentic) as proofs.

 

[White Wolf]

Why not? As long as the IAF can verify these videos, and it's clear these are really authentic videos uploaded on to Youtube, then it can present them as proof of the F-16 shot down. I certainly will accept them if they are properly verified.

So you mean to say that you would be more interested in amateur YouTube low resolution videos as proof rather than official radar signature and voice overs???

 

[Absolut_Vodka]

Look at this photo of the fuselage of Commander Abhenandan's Mig-21 -

What's the first thing that you'll notice?

-- It's squashed flat.

Why?

-- Because it fell vertically like a falling leaf corkscrewing to the ground. The force of the landing from a vertical fall squashed the whole fuselage flat. But because the plane fell vertically (as apposed to a shallower emergency landing angle) its nose section remained intact.

This squashed state of the Mig-21 is consistent with the way it corkscrewed on its vertical descent in these videos of the crash:

Video #1 - Taken from location most likely at the rear of the Mig-21 or at an angle from the direction where the Mig-21 came from. This could be from the Indian side or from the Pakistani side right at the border with the Indian side. This video captured the moment immediately after the Mig-21 was hit and started falling. Notice that the plane was still able travel at a steep angle before the pilot ejected. But after the ejection the Mig-21 immediately started on its vertical corkscrew descent (it completely lost lift).

Video #2 - Taken from the opposite direction deeper into Pakistani territory forward of travel of the direction of the Mig-21. This video was taken on the lower half of the fall of the Mig-21 when it was already falling vertically on corkscrew.

If an aircraft is hit with missile or it disintegrates in the air, the first block that usually comes down on ground is engine due to its weight.

You cannot assume that Mig 21 was corkscrewed to ground. It might be spinning 360 degrees in horizontal and vertical planes before ending up on ground. It depends on the center of gravity of that segment of plane which disintegrated.

Third both videos are shot in Pakistan because first one sure is Paki dialect.

Fourth, In first video the person was saying he can see two parachutes. Mig 21 is single seater.

 

[asianobserve]

So you mean to say that you would be more interested in amateur YouTube low resolution videos as proof rather than official radar signature and voice overs???

Is that so? Then how come there are hundreds of hundreds of approving posts in this thread and the other related thread about analysis of these videos claiming these shows a 2-seat Pakistani F-16 because they can allegedly make out 2 parachutes opening....

 

[White Wolf]

Is that so? Then how come there are hundreds of hundreds of approving posts in this thread and the other related thread about analysis of these videos claiming these shows a 2-seat Pakistani F-16 because they can allegedly make out 2 parachutes opening....

Looks like you didn't get what I meant to say. I am repeating again " After official release of radar signatures of downed F-16 by IAF, which argument carries more weight according to you?? YouTube video or official radra data??"

 

[asianobserve]

Looks like you didn't get what I meant to say. I am repeating again " After official release of radar signatures of downed F-16 by IAF, which argument carries more weight according to you?? YouTube video or official radra data??"

If the IAF is confident enough to claim that these videos indeed show proof of the shot down of 2-seat F-16 then that's easily digestible than radar screen grabs which do not provide context.

 

[asianobserve]

If an aircraft is hit with missile or it disintegrates in the air, the first block that usually comes down on ground is engine due to its weight.

You cannot assume that Mig 21 was corkscrewed to ground. It might be spinning 360 degrees in horizontal and vertical planes before ending up on ground. It depends on the center of gravity of that segment of plane which disintegrated.

Third both videos are shot in Pakistan because first one sure is Paki dialect.

Fourth, In first video the person was saying he can see two parachutes. Mig 21 is single seater.

In the case of the Mig-21 of Commander Abenandan its main fuselage (still with the engine attached) most likely hit the ground intact. The mid to rear section however which was already engulfed in flames while it was corkscrewing on its vertical descent (as shown in the videos) was completely burned down on the ground after impact.

Mig 21 actually has to parachutes, one is for the pilot and the other one is the drogue chute of the aircraft, or the person taking the video simply mistook one of the the slowly falling debris as the second parachute.

 

[White Wolf]

If the IAF is confident enough to claim that these videos indeed show proof of the shot down of 2-seat F-16 then that's easily digestible than radar screen grabs which do not provide context.

Are you nuts?? Do you not understand what I am trying to say or I am just banging my head on the wall??

The DJISPR of Pakistatan mentioned in his very first tweet that he has captured 3 Indian pilots. Later changed that statement to 2 pilots then to one pilot. Now the million dollar question "who were the other 2 pilots??"
Analyzing the report F-16 B pilots would pop up as answer.

 

[asianobserve]

I cannot see 2 parachutes in this video:

 

[asianobserve]

Are you nuts?? Do you not understand what I am trying to say or I am just banging my head on the wall??

The DJISPR of Pakistatan mentioned in his very first tweet that he has captured 3 Indian pilots. Later changed that statement to 2 pilots then to one pilot. Now the million dollar question "who were the other 2 pilots??"
Analyzing the report F-16 B pilots would pop up as answer.

As I said in my previous post this is one circumstance that tend to prove the IAF claim of shooting down a Pakistani F-16. But this alone is not enough evidence to convince non-involved observers of the F-16 shot down claim.

 

[Prashant12]

If the IAF is confident enough to claim that these videos indeed show proof of the shot down of 2-seat F-16 then that's easily digestible than radar screen grabs which do not provide context.

2 Pilots


---------------------------------

 

[White Wolf]

I cannot see 2 parachutes in this video:

Tell me Mr. Analyst what do you conclude from this video?

 

[maomao]

..........Very Interesting Comparisons!

 

[asianobserve]

Tell me Mr. Analyst what do you conclude from this video?

This video appears to be different from the 2 videos I cited above. But I do not see any Mig-21 or F-16 in that video. It's not clear what is falling here or where and when is this video from since there's no context clue from the ground as the video only shows the blue sky. There is also only 1 parachute there and I am 100% sure that the last image of the superimposed pilot dangling from a white parachute is not that of the parachute in the video.

 

[White Wolf]

This video appears to be different from the 2 videos I cited above.

Well there you go, if you know what I mean.

 

[Absolut_Vodka]

In the case of the Mig-21 of Commander Abenandan its main fuselage (still with the engine attached) most likely hit the ground intact. The mid to rear section however which was already engulfed in flames while it was corkscrewing on its vertical descent (as shown in the videos) was completely burned down on the ground after impact.

Mig 21 actually has to parachutes, one is for the pilot and the other one is the drogue chute of the aircraft, or the person taking the video simply mistook a slowly falling debris as a parachute.

Only the nozzle was attached to the rear in picture. Engine already was detached.

You are fixated on burning part. As i told you, engine block would fall faster than fuselage.

And what makes you think fuselage that carries fuel didn't burn after collision with ground?



drogue chute seriously? Why would it deploy in middle of crash? A specific air brake compartment needs to open for chute to come out. Even if we believe chute came out because of malfunction then compare the size difference

Let's take F-16 ex because Mig 21 specs are in Russian and Czech.


https://www.f-106deltadart.com/ejection_seat.htm

the chute would extract the main parachute, a standard USAF C-9 hemispherical canopy of 28 ft diameter.

https://lifesupportintl.com/products/par-1170-00

Canopy 23" diameter <<<< Note it's inches