Hazing is Simply Intolerable

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
Excerpts of a very contemporary issue that is affecting the world armies.


[h=1]Hazing is Simply Intolerable[/h] [h=3]by Ryan T. Kranc[/h]



Hazing is Simply Intolerable

Army Regulation 600-20, Army Command Policy, states "hazing is fundamentally in opposition to our values and is prohibited." The recent case of Private Danny Chen, who took his own life in Afghanistan this past October after being physically and verbally abused by up to 8 fellow members of his platoon (a platoon he had been part of for less than 70 days), has brought to the forefront the issue of hazing in the US Army. In April Marine Lance Corporal Harry Lew committed suicide after a night of hazing by the hand of his fellow Marines, an incident resulting in a trial by court-martial of three Marines who physically abused and harassed him before he shot himself. General Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, issued a statement on 23 December 2011 on his Facebook page stating "hazing is simply intolerable." Indeed, hazing is intolerable and is an egregious act that violates every thread of value and decency we hold as valuable as an institution and profession. Hazing and interpersonal abuse significantly increases the risk of suicide in those who have an acute feeling of burdensomeness and inability to assimilate or belong. Hazing is blatantly toxic and erodes the trust and confidence required of comrades in arms whose reliance upon each other ultimately contributes to their survival in the most austere conditions. Lastly, blaming the victim of such a crime is morally corrupt and discounts the horrible act of abuse imposed upon those who are not in the position to defend themselves.


Hazing is an inexcusable act counter to the values we hold dear as an Army. Our values of loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity, and personal courage are the hallmarks of our institution. Conduct in direct violation with one or more of these values consume the moral bedrock of the organization. The concept of serving our country in the service of others is juxtaposed to the idea that harming one of our own somehow makes them better members of our team. Leadership through deceit and coercion is as equally corrosive as the physical and psychological abuse of our own. We lose our moral legitimacy passively condoning these actions in failing to address them. Further, our inability to adhere to the values we profess to make our institution great destroy our heritage, traditions, and principles. Of paramount importance is the understanding that the violation of reasonable expectations of professional conduct and common decency contributes to the degradation of our institution.
Our rising suicide rate in the active, guard, and reserve force resultant of the increasing stresses of military life emphasize the significance of cultivating environments that do not further contribute to the preventable loss of life by our Soldiers' own hands. Dr. Thomas Joiner's interpersonal theory of suicidal behavior indicates three prerequisites of suicidal behavior; a thwarted sense of belongingness, an increased sense of burdensomeness, and an acquired capability or means of killing. Hazing and other abuses deteriorate one's sense of self-worth and increase the feeling of burden and worthlessness. Hazing accelerates all three of these prerequisites, particularly in a military culture where lethal means and capability is a mechanism available to all Soldiers assigned a weapon. Why any leader would knowingly engage in behaviors that would possibly add to our suicide issues is beyond comprehension.


The targeting, ostracizing, bullying, and humiliation of another person for the purposes of "building camaraderie" or "exercising discipline" is the weakest form of leadership and the most obvious example of toxicity. That PVT Chen's platoon leader has been charged with dereliction of duty related to the hazing and suicide of PVT Chen is even more disconcerting. Leaders are responsible for the training, morale, welfare, and discipline of their Soldiers. When the actions of subordinates prevent a leader's ability to monitor and contribute to any of these four aspects the fabric of trust within the team and small unit disintegrate. Leaders are supposed to know their subordinates, their families, their motivations, strengths, and weaknesses in order to facilitate their improvement and contributions towards mission accomplishment, not exploit those weaknesses or shortcomings for personal amusement or sadistic examples. Leaders who cannot provide for the common good or who fail to recognize the worth of each of their subordinates do not deserve to lead.


Blaming victims of hazing is as reprehensible as blaming victims of rape, murder, or domestic abuse. Hazing is an abuse of power and control manifested in the commission of a violent or coercive act of domineering others in an oppressive or vicious manner. Private Chen didn't need to "toughen up" or "require better coping skills" as many internet commenters have suggested under news articles and blogs related to the case. He was an American Soldier who enlisted as an infantryman during a time of war to serve the United States, a country that gave this child of hardworking Chinese immigrants a New York education and opportunity to live the American Dream. He was a Soldier who served less than a year from enlistment to the time of his death who was forced to his breaking point by a group of fellow Soldiers who, instead of mentoring him, training him, and ensuring his development as a professional Soldier in the 70 days he was with them, decided to bully him, beat him, and harass him to a point where he believed his only logical escape was killing himself with his own weapon in a guard tower. This Soldier deserved better, and his chain of command failed him.

Read more at:

Hazing is Simply Intolerable | Small Wars Journal
This happens.

Even in the NDA, it has become a trend (though it was not so earlier).

Is Hazing correct?

Does hazing build 'camaraderie'?

Does this practice instil in the individual a sense of discipline to obey orders without question?

Or does it ruin self esteem of the victim?

Or is it a psychological phenomenon of otherwise insecure people, misusing their authority, to give confidence to themselves that they are 'superior'?
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
Those who have seen the film, "A Few Good Men" will be able to connect.

Galloway: Why do you hate them so much?
Lt. Weinberg: They beat up on a weakling; that's all they did. The rest is just smokefilled coffee-house crap. They tortured and tormented a weaker kid. They didn't like him. So, they killed him. And why? Because he couldn't run very fast.
 
Last edited:

Oracle

New Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
8,120
Likes
1,566
Those who have seen the film, "A Few Good Men" will be able to connect.

Galloway: Why do you hate them so much?
Lt. Weinberg: They beat up on a weakling; that's all they did. The rest is just smokefilled coffee-house crap. They tortured and tormented a weaker kid. They didn't like him. So, they killed him. And why? Because he couldn't run very fast.
In that film the word used was Code Red, if IRC. Also, the order for Code Red came from Jack Nicholson, who was a Colonel and was commanding the base.

Amongst new entrants in the NDA, maybe that is done in disguise of ragging (I don't know, I am just assuming). But, is it prevalent in the higher positions of the Army as well?
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
Those who have seen the film, "A Few Good Men" will be able to connect.

Galloway: Why do you hate them so much?
Lt. Weinberg: They beat up on a weakling; that's all they did. The rest is just smokefilled coffee-house crap. They tortured and tormented a weaker kid. They didn't like him. So, they killed him. And why? Because he couldn't run very fast.


"You can't handle the truth!"
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
Ragging (as known here) is Hazing.

The fratricides that are reported could be because of hazing.

What are the pros and cons of Hazing.

Does it build character, team spirit, camaraderie et al or does it ruin the self esteem, self confidence and is merely a tool for the psychologically handicapped, who misuses his authority to prove to himself that he is superior?!
 
Last edited:

Param

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
2,810
Likes
653
Hazing or ragging or whatever, Any soldier in any army any where in the world should make good use of his gun to put an end to this menace.
Hell with rules and heirarchy when injustice is meted out.

If I was that young soldier I would have killed as many "hazers" as possible before puling the trigger on myself.

There is no team spirit building or camaraderie in ragging, it is just a sadistic expression of desire for control over subordinates or juniors.
And all it promotes is a disgusting culture of subservience where one does not question the higher ups.
 

Singh

Phat Cat
Super Mod
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
20,311
Likes
8,403
Country flag
Hazing has been part of military culture, since ancient times. If people call hazing cruelty than what of war ? is it now cruel ? would the enemy be chivalrous ?

Hazing builds character, it helps you harden up. It is better to shed a few tears during hazing, than to spill blood during war.

And from what I have heard, and I hope some one from the military can attest to this fact; you may want to kill your seniors when you are enduring hazing but a few years down the line you cannot but feel a bond of brotherhood with them. These are the same people who will at a moment's notice give up their lives for you in battle.
 

Bangalorean

Ambassador
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Messages
6,233
Likes
6,854
Country flag
All depends on what kind of "hazing" or "ragging" we are talking about, really.

NDA ragging is common, but afaik, it happens less and less as one moves up in the military - certainly does not happen at the higher levels. That's what I hear from all my friends in the mil...
 

Vyom

Seeker
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
1,041
Likes
329
Hazing has been part of military culture, since ancient times. If people call hazing cruelty than what of war ? is it now cruel ? would the enemy be chivalrous ?

Hazing builds character, it helps you harden up. It is better to shed a few tears during hazing, than to spill blood during war.

And from what I have heard, and I hope some one from the military can attest to this fact; you may want to kill your seniors when you are enduring hazing but a few years down the line you cannot but feel a bond of brotherhood with them. These are the same people who will at a moment's notice give up their lives for you in battle.
If I were a soldier, I would prefer my dignity over my life. Ragging or hazing, as long as it is within limits is fine. But something that crosses the line of dignity or torture cannot be acceptable.
 

Singh

Phat Cat
Super Mod
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
20,311
Likes
8,403
Country flag
All depends on what kind of "hazing" or "ragging" we are talking about, really.

NDA ragging is common, but afaik, it happens less and less as one moves up in the military - certainly does not happen at the higher levels. That's what I hear from all my friends in the mil...
You join, you take shit.
You get out in the battlefield, you take more shit .
You climb a little higher, you take less shit.
Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like.
Welcome to the army, son.


 

Param

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
2,810
Likes
653
If I were a soldier, I would prefer my dignity over my life. Ragging or hazing, as long as it is within limits is fine. But something that crosses the line of dignity or torture cannot be acceptable.
I agree.

If ragging or "hazing" in military is something good then those institutions should be be open about it.

Maybe they should state it as part of the training program like a personality development course.:namaste:

Atleast if it is regulated and recognised it won't go out of hand. The informal nature is the biggest problem.

Atleast people, young aspirants, parents would know what their wards are getting in to.
 

Param

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
2,810
Likes
653
You join, you take shit.
You get out in the battlefield, you take more shit .
You climb a little higher, you take less shit.
Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like.
Welcome to the army, son.


There are hardened thugs who have spent years in prison, they too can take any shyt.:D
 

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
499
Hazing has been part of military culture, since ancient times. If people call hazing cruelty than what of war ? is it now cruel ? would the enemy be chivalrous ?

Hazing builds character, it helps you harden up. It is better to shed a few tears during hazing, than to spill blood during war.

And from what I have heard, and I hope some one from the military can attest to this fact; you may want to kill your seniors when you are enduring hazing but a few years down the line you cannot but feel a bond of brotherhood with them. These are the same people who will at a moment's notice give up their lives for you in battle.
One would not expect chivalry from enemy but senior is not the enemy. I think people are given training to face the enemy. So, is hazing part of the training? If so, then the academy should be upfront about it.

Some light ragging or hazing is understandable. But I imagine that it wont be light. And it can easily get out of hand. Also, not everyone can take it. It can have long term adverse affects on the individual.

I think the logic for it is simple: I endured it when I was young. I am better for enduring it. Now, I'll do the same to my juniors.

But if there is a junior who cannot take it, then he will be seen rebellious/defiant. And then the seniors can get quite cruel.

Ideally, such things must not happen. Some banter is fine, but there should be limits. And I am sure people can build bonds(and give up lives in a moment's notice) without hazing and ragging.

Actually, not just military, it applies to any environment where youngsters of a single gender stay together away from their families. Then, ragging and hazing can be expected. In a military environment, such things may get amplified.
 

tiranga

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
251
Likes
73
It should be allowed only if the person who is hazing can tolerate this type of behaviour with himself
 

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
499
It should be allowed only if the person who is hazing can tolerate this type of behaviour with himself
Individuals differ. What may seem tolerable(and light) to one, may seem untolerable(or extreme) to another and vice versa.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
=


And from what I have heard, and I hope some one from the military can attest to this fact; you may want to kill your seniors when you are enduring hazing but a few years down the line you cannot but feel a bond of brotherhood with them. These are the same people who will at a moment's notice give up their lives for you in battle.
There are some chaps who ragged me and they were lucky that I did not meet them during my service!
 

Singh

Phat Cat
Super Mod
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
20,311
Likes
8,403
Country flag
One would not expect chivalry from enemy but senior is not the enemy. I think people are given training to face the enemy. So, is hazing part of the training? If so, then the academy should be upfront about it.

Some light ragging or hazing is understandable. But I imagine that it wont be light. And it can easily get out of hand. Also, not everyone can take it. It can have long term adverse affects on the individual.

I think the logic for it is simple: I endured it when I was young. I am better for enduring it. Now, I'll do the same to my juniors.

But if there is a junior who cannot take it, then he will be seen rebellious/defiant. And then the seniors can get quite cruel.

Ideally, such things must not happen. Some banter is fine, but there should be limits. And I am sure people can build bonds(and give up lives in a moment's notice) without hazing and ragging.

Actually, not just military, it applies to any environment where youngsters of a single gender stay together away from their families. Then, ragging and hazing can be expected. In a military environment, such things may get amplified.
We are not talking about us city folks, who sit in air conditioned homes and offices, and for whom ego and freedom means something.

Military has a different ethos. Here the soldiers are not only willing but eager to embrace hell, adversity. It is a matter of great dishonour for a regiment if another is sent before it particularly if the conditions are adverse.

If you can't take up hazing, how can you endure war ?

Now, I don't mean we go down the route of Russian style hazing which is sadistic nor should we go down the nordic route where everything is too pc.

The moment you start relishing hazing and adversity, you are golden.
 

Param

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
2,810
Likes
653
We are not talking about us city folks, who sit in air conditioned homes and offices, and for whom ego and freedom means something.

Military has a different ethos. Here the soldiers are not only willing but eager to embrace hell, adversity. It is a matter of great dishonour for a regiment if another is sent before it particularly if the conditions are adverse.

If you can't take up hazing, how can you endure war ?

Now, I don't mean we go down the route of Russian style hazing which is sadistic nor should we go down the nordic route where everything is too pc.

The moment you start relishing hazing and adversity, you are golden.
Enduring the physical and mental effects of war are different from undergoing Hazing.

Very often people who are meek give into being bullied , it is the brave ones who stand up to it. They are the ones who often face the wrath for their courage and defiance.

Hazing or ragging is just a method to break down a person so that he perfectly fits in organisation where orders have to be obeyed without question.

The only problem is why is hazing unofficial? Why not make this an officially recognised part of the training program?
Unless there is something inherently wrong or bad about hazing there is no reason for not recognising it as officially a part of training.

There are really tough hardened professional thugs in prison, I've known a few. They can take any thing thrown at them. They can endure any war, the one characteristic they lack is discipline.
 

W.G.Ewald

Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2
Professional
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
14,139
Likes
8,594
Let us be sure we note the difference between "motivation" as applied by trainers to recruits or military school candidates, and bullying of individual soldiers by their peers. The former is not hazing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ray

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
There are legal and professional methods to toughen up cadets and others.

Bullying, thrashing and harassment, as a method, is not one of them!
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top