Gurmeet Ram Rahim - An internal security perspective

[here2where]

...Name the priest who was convicted by Court for crime against Children in Kerala. You don't even know his name because Lindus only loath what NDTV tells them to..

The bastards involved Father Robin Vaddakumchiryil, Basil Kuriakose, etc have been arrested and convicted. They committed a crime and were punished. Good no?

...Syed Imam Bukhari....local administration can not even execute summon and non bailable warrants for a case of inciting riots in last 10 years let alone courts dispensing the justice.....

Obviously it had nothing to do with police not having a spine. They obviously had orders from the top to layoff that cutlet. A pathetic case of appeasement during khan-gress years.

.....The only difference this time is that Government has not interfered and rioters have been dealt with force.....

It is one thing to shoot and kill violent lower caste dera supporters. Would the govt do the same when faced with rioting muzzies when they go arrest Bhukari? Or would Azad Maidan repeat itself. Under Modi, i expect not.

 

[here2where]

@here2where, saar, am really a fence-sitter specifically on such issues, not really knowing anything better, but i am more-or-less inclined to think that Hindus (not necessarily Hinduism) ARE under siege in their own land.

Hindus will be under siege as long as minority appeasement politics continue.
With Modi's brand of politics, hopefully its days are numbered?

 

[AnantS]

I would love to give a long reply. But given I am away from my PC(and I fcking hate typing from phone), and had not been able to go to PB over weekend because of the stupidity of the followers who created mayhem.

@Project Dharma Voilence and discrimination should not be the path taken by land owning community. Why they are jealous of reservations meant for deprived and opressed communities? This is precisely attitude which is driving the backwards(mazhabi) to xtianity and even Islam. And it will only create powder keg situation in Punjab.

Now the definition of "Sikhs" which I think bro you gave it from pov of numerically dominant Akali version of Sikhism(Tat Khalsa would be the word?). And others may disagree.

Namdharis are very much Sikhs but have kept tradition of Living Gurus. Udasis(started By Guru Nanak ji's son) worship Guru Granth Sahib but are not Sikhs enough. Radha Soami Sect dedicated their lives spreading Guru Granth Sahib to masses across India, but I guess they are not Sikh. Dasam Granth though written by Guru Gobind Singh, could not pass censorship board of Akal Takht as it is not Sikhi compliant according to them. I sometimes feel Akal Takht tries to mimic & idolize Sunni Deobandhs Mullahs of Islam. They have created unnecessary chism among followers of Gurus and in Punjabi community.

 

[Villager]

does this mean that asaram was put in jail even before the entire case was investigated, accusers examined? what is all this?
@A chauhan - how does the law work in such cases? do you sniff hanky-panky? any precedents of paedophilia & halala-enjoying padres & mullas too or not?

It means JhasaRam and his political and non political biratharans(brothers) who aren't facing any criminal charges are creating hurdles in the case and don't want this case to reach a conclusion or investigated. The cops were not even willing to file the case of victim until it caught media's attention. The girl, her parents and other complainants and witness have been receiving death threats and several have been killed as well. It won't be a surprise if the case never reaches conclusion since it is no longer getting the same media attention. This same guy had declared the victim of 2012 Delhi incident as guilty in the crime committed against her and asked to not give harsh punishment to her violators. He also claimed to be impotent which was found to be a lie in medical test and has been in jail ever since.

 

[Ancient Indian]

Pointed toward me ?

I was going through the posts and suddenly there is comparison between those two.
What are you expecting me to say?
I don't know who posted about hafeez sayed.

 

[Bharat Ek Khoj]

I was going through the posts and suddenly there is comparison between those two.
What are you expecting me to say?
I don't know who posted about hafeez sayed.

It wasn't comparison. He was saying the GRR does a lot of charity so he can't be a criminal. I just posted a paki tweet to let him know what pakis think about hafeez saeed.

 

[Project Dharma]

Voilence and discrimination should not be the way aquired by land owning community.

I agree.

Why they are jelous of reservations meant for deprived and opressed communities?

Because they are deprived and oppressed themselves A family which owned 16 acres of land at some point in 1900s is now down to 1 acre because of breakdown of joint family structure. Look at the people committing suicide. How many are upper castes? Of course they are going to be resentful of people getting freebies.

Caste based affirmative action is archaic and just divides people. Caste should have no official standing.

Now the definition of "Sikhs" which I think bro you gave it from pov of numerically dominant Akali version of Sikhism(Tat Khalsa would be the word?). And others may disagree.

I do not consider Namdharis Sikhs. For me, the litmus test of a Sikh is that the Guru Granth Sahib is the sole Guru. This is not mine or Tatt Khalsa view. It is the view of Guru Gobind Singh

"Sab Sikhan ko hukum hai, Guru Maneo Granth"

Udasis(started By Guru Nanak ji's son) worship Guru Granth Sahib but are not Sikhs enough

Edit:
I originally confused Udasis for Nirmalle in my mind. Nirmalle are Sikhs. Udasis are not Sikhs but Hindu followers of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Which is fine, they should be encouraged to continue and preserve their traditions.

Nirmalle are Sikhs who were deputed by Guru Gobind Singh to study Hindu scriptures. They are very much Sikhs.

Radha Soami Sect dedicated their lives spreading Guru Granth Sahib to masses across India, but I guess they are not Sikh.

Radha Soamis are not Sikhs either. They are a spiritual sect that takes the message of Sikhism and other religions and preach it.

As long as they don't disrespect the Sikh scriptures or customs I don't see any problem with it. In fact like I pointed out, that is the main problem that Sikhs have with Ram Rahim. Radha Soami is what Dera Sacha Sauda should have been.

. I sometimes feel Akal Takht tries

Please do not use Akal Takht and SGPC/Akali Dal interchangeably.

Edit: paaji maybe we should take this conversation to the Sikh/Hindu thread. I think it is more relevant there.

 

[Ancient Indian]

It wasn't comparison. He was saying the GRR does a lot of charity so he can't be a criminal. I just posted a paki tweet to let him know what pakis think about hafeez saeed.

Despite GRR questionable character, the charity he had done is real.

This charity is very important.

If you don't consider it important, there is no point in arguing.

 

[Project Dharma]

Despite GRR questionable character, the charity he had done is real.

This charity is very important.

If you don't consider it important, there is no point in arguing.

Sir ji, I agree the charity was very real. However, somebody can make the same argument for Christian ministries. The government whether it is BJP or Congress or anybody else needs to take care of the basic needs of people so that they are free to practice their religion.

If people are forced or encouraged to change religion because they depend on charity, then freedom of religion means nothing.

 

[Ancient Indian]

Sir ji, I agree the charity was very real. However, somebody can make the same argument for Christian ministries. The government whether it is BJP or Congress or anybody else needs to take care of the basic needs of people so that they are free to practice their religion.

If people are forced or encouraged to change religion because they depend on charity, then freedom of religion means nothing.

Whatever we preach, the church won't listen to us. They will continue to harvest souls using every thing including charity.

It's happening since ages. How will you keep poor people in your community from jumping the ship?

See religion is all great and dandy for you and I. But for poor people, their hungry stomachs come first. Basic health care also very expensive to them.

You get the picture, right?

When we are out options, we can do very little in that regard.

 

[Project Dharma]

Whatever we preach, the church won't listen to us. They will continue to harvest souls using every thing including charity.

It's happening since ages. How will you keep poor people in your community from jumping the ship?

See religion is all great and dandy for you and I. But for poor people, their hungry stomachs come first. Basic health care also very expensive to them.

You get the picture, right?

When we are out options, we can do very little in that regard.

I'm making the same point as you. We need to take care of the poor so that they are not vulnerable to these people. And it should be irrespective of caste. A poor Brahmin or whatever is still poor.

 

[cannonfodder]

Lot of traffic on this dhaga.

My summary:
1. BJP should have done better to dismantle premis as verdict could have gone either ways. Here state handling and preparation was poor indeed.
2. Only after situation went bad; action was taken by state government. In fact, there was no alternative in face of armed crowd but to use force. This I won't count as mistake.
3. RW perspective: Dalits will be wooed by Missionaries. Whining on SM (like we do )is of no use; missionaries will be missionaries; We are asking tiger to go vegetarian.

Not voting for Modi for point 1 is like giving up alcohol only to start doing drugs( best luck with pappu, kejru, lalu, pawar, bhenji and commies). BJP is not indispensable but what alternative do we have .Get a proper alternative before abandoning ship.

 

[prohumanity]

You have a great point.
The alternative to BJP are much worse than BJP. Because they are very corrupt and has great interest in keeping the system corrupt as it worked for them. The corrupt, bribe ridden system did not work for an average Indian. PM Modi is doing something very dangerous for these corrupt politicians and officials. He is cutting the root of this system and making it transparent . He might make very very powerful as enemies because they are going to fight fiercely before going down. IMO, the direction is right ...though it might take time to fix this broken ,corrupt system.

 

[here2where]

And why are some people feeling hindus are under siege because this fellow is arrested? He is a jat sikh. And true sikhs hate hindus, according to some content posted here.

 

[Mikesingh]

.............................................................

 

[square]

And why are some people feeling hindus are under siege because this fellow is arrested? He is a jat sikh. And true sikhs hate hindus, according to some content posted here.

because for them dalits are no more sikhs ...so they can only be hindus.....coz only hindus follow living gurus....

 

[here2where]

.....coz only hindus follow living gurus....

sikh religion is based entirely on gurus. hindus also follow dead gurus.

 

[square]

sikh religion is based entirely on gurus. hindus also follow dead gurus.

sikhs can not follow living guru.....

guru granth sahib is their last guru.....

hindu can follow living guru....

 

[Project Dharma]

And true sikhs hate hindus, according to some content posted here.

And which Sikhs would those be? I'm one of maybe three Sikhs on this forum and I post actively on this thread. I have never in my posting history made a SINGLE comment hateful of Hindus. Can you please clarify your statement? Thanks.

 

[Project Dharma]

because for them dalits are no more sikhs ...so they can only be hindus.....coz only hindus follow living gurus....

What rubbish. What does caste have to do with anything? I was the first to mention that his followers are from all castes even though they might be majority Dalit. In my village, a prominent Jatt Sikh retired Col was the first to convert. Dalits are as much or more Sikh as I am as long as they follow Sikh customs and regard Guru Granth Sahib as their Guru.

p.s. if you scroll through my post history, I have been specifically calling out dera followers as neither Sikh nor Hindu.