Gurmeet Ram Rahim - An internal security perspective

[ezsasa]

whats the status of the suryanelli rape case? some parallels? why the delay in it? @ezsasa?

No idea, not in my radar...

Is this the bus rape case from Kerala , which involved politicians and high profile people?

 

[OneGrimPilgrim]

If the court wants the center to take over law and order in states, let the center take over in WB and Kerela then.

Also what's 'your' chief minister? Are judges not citizens?

We need to wait and let the picture emerge.

another point of view/grievance is, the state govt is responsible because it allowed those dead to first converge, instead of acting pre-emptively. now 30-31 of Indics are dead, while the rest 5-6 crores of fattened baits are easy targets for soul-vultures now.

 

[Nicky G]

another point of view/grievance is, the state govt is responsible because it allowed those dead to first converge, instead of acting pre-emptively. now 30-31 of Indics are dead, while the rest 5-6 crores of fattened baits are easy targets for soul-vultures now.

Most of the those who died are dera supporters. In my view, they should have not been fired upon, unless they opened fire on the security forces themselves. There is not much precedent for this as my previous post states an experienced officer. Having done so, I hope this precedent is now extended when others riot inevitably occur.

As for allowing people to converge, that's a gray area. Should there have been prohibitory orders such as 144 across all of Haryana, Punjab and Delhi? How do you exactly stop people moving? Should they have been put in preventive custody? All fair questions and I am not absolving the state of the blame, but I find it silly that people are getting carried away and blaming the government when there is not much better they could have done.

Anyway, my last post was about the courts dragging in the PM. If they want the precedent set that center should be involved in state law and order, let them pass such a judgment. It might be better in the long run. Passing comments don't mean much other than for media consumption.

I agree entirely about the soul-vulture part, if not handled carefully, it could be a tectonic shift. That is another reason why people's sensitivity needs to be taken into consideration no matter how silly you may find their beliefs.

Media role is disgusting. They seem to be baying for more blood, particularly the seculars.

 

[Tshering22]

Media role is disgusting. They seem to be baying for more blood, particularly the seculars

Media needs to be controlled by an autonomous regulatory authority.

Unless we do that, media will become terrorists' biggest weapon.

 

[Nicky G]

Media needs to be controlled by an autonomous regulatory authority.

Unless we do that, media will become terrorists' biggest weapon.

Unfortunately, a media that works against the nation, particular the left liberal media is a price for a free society. Its the case in every free country around the world. Left liberals apologize for terrorists - be it India, UK, US, Europe - you name a free country.

Its not just money either, its how the left has penetrated and controls every almost all pillar of society - media, education, technology and movies. Its not a coincidence we see this phenomenon world over.

You need to be a dictatorial state to really keep media in line.

 

[Zero-Sum-Game]

@Nicky G stop giving excuses for state govt. , they are not so powerless you claim them to be. didn't the punjab govt wipe out militancy with high handedness? not caring about the common folk but focusing solely on dismantling the terror infrastructure and support? Have you been on the receiving end of the state's wrath?
secondly, are you seriously recommending that the firing shouldn't have taken place? please, come out of the hole you are residing in and learn something. Firing orders are given out after following a compulsory operating procedure. it is used as the last resort and under reasonable constraint.
you are setting aside the fact that entire tri-city area was held hostage by these premis. looting and destruction of the property, burning of the vehicles etc. where do you draw the line?
also, stop painting the premis and their cult leader as some gullible guys. are you even aware how much weapons and fuel bombs they amassed at their deras? do you even know what sort of the law and order problem they pose?
burning buses, cars, railway stations, electric grids, shops.. are these acceptable sorts of protest?
if yes then I am speechless about your intellect...
it is very easy to quote something on a situation and it is entirely something different to be in the middle of it.
Bottomline is that it was an embarrassing failure on the part of the state govt of Punjab and Haryana. deal with it.
please stop associating this scenario with the hindu lens, it is helping no one.
ONLY THING THIS SCENARIO HAS REINFORCED THAT IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH FOLLOWERS, POLITICAL CONNECTIONS, AND MONEY, YOU CAN EVEN BRING, NOT JUST A STATE BUT COUPLE OF STATES TO GROUND.

 

[Ancient Indian]

Unfortunately, a media that works against the nation, particular the left liberal media is a price for a free society. Its the case in every free country around the world. Left liberals apologize for terrorists - be it India, UK, US, Europe - you name a free country.

Its not just money either, its how the left has penetrated and controls every almost all pillar of society - media, education, technology and movies. Its not a coincidence we see this phenomenon world over.

You need to be a dictatorial state to really keep media in line.

While we celebrate at the failure of MSM every now and then, the real testing times tell us who has more power.

Look at the left media. They hijacked the whole issue and created big frenzy all over the nation. Even local channels also picked it up. I had seen Khattar pic on tv screen today morning and they are lambasting him for his supposed failure. Even that turncoat Arnab also sang same tune. Many RW idiots frothing at mouth.

Situations like this, tells us who is on which side.

 

[Nicky G]

@Nicky G stop giving excuses for state govt. , they are not so powerless you claim them to be. didn't the punjab govt wipe out militancy with high handedness? not caring about the common folk but focusing solely on dismantling the terror infrastructure and support? Have you been on the receiving end of the state's wrath?

If you are comparing this to the Punjab insurgency which was directly aided and supplied by the ISI, you are living in la-la land.

How may lives were lost before Punjab police took hard actions? How many lives were lost here?

Learn context.

secondly, are you seriously recommending that the firing shouldn't have taken place? please, come out of the hole you are residing in and learn something. Firing orders are given out after following a compulsory operating procedure. it is used as the last resort and under reasonable constraint.
you are setting aside the fact that entire tri-city area was held hostage by these premis. looting and destruction of the property, burning of the vehicles etc. where do you draw the line?

Show me a precedent where people have been shot for merely torching a few vehicles. Are you aware how many times that has happened in this county?

I don't have details, so will not speculate and leave it to the judgment of the security forces, but unless lives are in jeopardy, I don't see why people should have not been apprehended.

I draw the line a bit beyond mere destruction of property. I draw the line somewhere along what happened during Jat agitation - when they were killing and raping. Has any of that sort been reported here?

also, stop painting the premis and their cult leader as some gullible guys. are you even aware how much weapons and fuel bombs they amassed at their deras? do you even know what sort of the law and order problem they pose?

I never argued anything of this sort.

burning buses, cars, railway stations, electric grids, shops.. are these acceptable sorts of protest?
if yes then I am speechless about your intellect...

Again, I never argued they were acceptable. Its about proportionality.

it is very easy to quote something on a situation and it is entirely something different to be in the middle of it.
Bottomline is that it was an embarrassing failure on the part of the state govt of Punjab and Haryana. deal with it.
please stop associating this scenario with the hindu lens, it is helping no one.

What is there for me to deal with? You calling something embarrassing means nothing to me. Its too early to make any serious judgments anyway.

Not sure what Hindu lens is but its a fact that only Dharmic leaders seem to face the courts, there are non-bailable warrants against Imams that are not served due to law and order concerns.

ONLY THING THIS SCENARIO HAS REINFORCED THAT IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH FOLLOWERS, POLITICAL CONNECTIONS, AND MONEY, YOU CAN EVEN BRING, NOT JUST A STATE BUT COUPLE OF STATES TO GROUND.

That's true in lots of places. Agitations bring cities and even states down in many countries - even in the US for instance.

Frankly, I am not sure what you are arguing? I don't have any interest in excusing governments. Its a matter of rising beyond childishly blaming the state without considering what exactly could have been done. As I asked in my previous posts, should all his supporters have been taken into preventive custody? Do you have a location that can hold lacs of people at a time?

Movement of arms should definitely have been monitored and prevented but that is also not easy as it sounds. Its not as if weapons came just in the recent past, they were likely stocked over the years.

If I remember correctly, a senior police officer even told the court that he is not able to guarantee law and order given the volatile situation.

So in closing, do try to rise up beyond the media induced frenzy and think for yourselves.

While we celebrate at the failure of MSM every now and then, the real testing times tell us who has more power.

Look at the left media. They hijacked the whole issue and created big frenzy all over the nation. Even local channels also picked it up. I had seen Khattar pic on tv screen today morning and they are lambasting him for his supposed failure. Even that turncoat Arnab also sang same tune. Many RW idiots frothing at mouth.

Situations like this, tells us who is on which side.

Simply put, media is trying to create a narrative similar to 2002. They are baying for blood of Dera supporters and if that happens, they'll try and paint the Haryana CM as some sort of butcher.

These are some of the same media people who have interviewed this baba while he was charged for these crimes.

Also, the focus is entirely on Haryana, it would seem Punjab is tranquil.

 

[Nicky G]

@Zero-Sum-Game Do you think bullets were fired at people here?

Any idea where this is from?

 

[Ancient Indian]

Simply put, media is trying to create a narrative similar to 2002. They are baying for blood of Dera supporters and if that happens, they'll try and paint the Haryana CM as some sort of butcher.

These are some of the same media people who have interviewed this baba while he was charged for these crimes.

Also, the focus is entirely on Haryana, it would seem Punjab is tranquil.

It's another #BlowToModi moment. Frankly I am tired of replying to same arguments again and again.

No matter what happens, our so called RW will always blame BJP. May be they don't put enough effort to learn about what's going on. Things are happening for last 3 years, this RW still behave like fresh out of school.

Some media went little further and abused all guru and sanyasin. Today this happens and tomorrow Baba Ramdev will be targetted. And next Sri Sri. God knows AoL has enough cases already. Systematic target of Hindu sadhus always been main agenda. Our so called RW will definitely behave same as now.

 

[Zero-Sum-Game]

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...llowers-lathis-from-dera-centres-1648525.html
https://thewire.in/171196/haryana-riots-dera-sacha-sauda/
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/repor...vered-from-dera-sacha-sauda-followers-2540867
these news shed some light about peaceful protesters from dera. i in awe of their peacefulness and spontaneity of the protest. surely, they deserved nothing to catch bullets.... they were over there to to catch a glimpse of their satguru, nothing more... they were well within their rights to to burn a few vehicles, hurl stones at police, and bring state capital to its knees, ....
http://www.news18.com/news/india/gu...auda-chief-haryana-bjp-ministers-1501639.html
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...ha-sauda-politics-bjp-congress/1/1034368.html
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...to-and-from-dera-comes-back-to-haunt-4813998/
this proves nothing.... no connection to bjp whatsoever..... this mess is only brought about by akalis, congis etc. bjp never asked for any electoral help from dera.... surely.....
yeah situation in Punjab is worse than Haryana ..... harayana govt is being blamed to shift blame from punjab.....
http://indianexpress.com/article/in...anchkula-sirsa-amarinder-singh-sirsa-4814734/
I CAN ONLY REQUEST PEOPLE TO TAKE OUT THEIR HEADS FROM THEIR ASSES AND CALL A SPADE, A SPADE. BLAME AND CRITICISE WHERE IT IS DUE, NO MATTER WHAT PARTY OR GOVT IS AT THE RECEIVING END. I HOPE SANITY WILL PREVAIL.

 

[here2where]

.. Today this happens and tomorrow Baba Ramdev will be targetted. And next Sri Sri. God knows AoL has enough cases already. Systematic target of Hindu sadhus always been main agenda. ...

Nothing wrong in bringing to justice anyone who has broken the law. including committing rapes. Being a hindu, or being a baba, does not give cover to indulge in unlawful activities.
Ofcourse law 'should take its own course' for all, irrespective of religion. No appeasement towards any religion.
This is Modi's final exam. Will and wait and watch how he will come out of it. Either he will come out shining as a true saviour of Bharat or eat shit and turn out to a hindu jihadi after all.

 

[Nicky G]

It's another #BlowToModi moment. Frankly I am tired of replying to same arguments again and again.

No matter what happens, our so called RW will always blame BJP. May be they don't put enough effort to learn about what's going on. Things are happening for last 3 years, this RW still behave like fresh out of school.

Some media went little further and abused all guru and sanyasin. Today this happens and tomorrow Baba Ramdev will be targetted. And next Sri Sri. God knows AoL has enough cases already. Systematic target of Hindu sadhus always been main agenda. Our so called RW will definitely behave same as now.

That's worth an entire thread in itself.

Left attacks as a coordinated group focused on the enemy, whereas the right wing is always fragmented and riddled with in-fighting. Perhaps it has something to do with collective nature of left vs. individualistic nature of right.

Its always much harder to mobilize the right. It takes extreme situations such as ten year loot of UPA or people being fed up of establishment in US.

The left also accepts flaws and bad apples for their larger cause whereas right wingers want perfection. Perfect example right here, right wingers decrying this baba, have you heard of a leftie blaming their imams or commies? Never.

 

[Zero-Sum-Game]

@Nicky G YOU BEING AN OUTSIDER TO THE PUNJAB SITUATION ARE FREE TO MAKE ANY CONCLUSION BUT THEY MIGHT NOT BE TRUE. CONTEXT HAS BEEN SAME IN BOTH CASES AS I SEE IT. BOTH WERE BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION BY THE RESPECTIVE STATE GOVTS... AND FINALLY, THEY HAD TO ACT. IF A GOVT IS CAPABLE OF ENDING MILITANCY THEN THEY VERY WELL CAPABLE OF PREVENTING A RIOT.
DM ME FOR PLETHORA OF STEPS THAT COULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN...

AND BEFORE YOU DRAW SOME OTHER CONCLUSIONS LET ME JUST SAY IT LOUD AND CLEAR" IF YOU ARE A THREAT TO LAW AND ORDER OR ANYTHING EVEN GREATER THAN THAT THEN YOU MUST BE TAKEN DOWN USING ANY MEANS NECESSARY."
BTW THAT LAST PIC IS FROM BOMBAY I PRESUME?

 

[Ancient Indian]

Nothing wrong in bringing to justice anyone who has broken the law. including committing rapes. Being a hindu, or being a baba, does not give cover to indulge in unlawful activities.
Ofcourse law 'should take its own course' for all, irrespective of religion. No appeasement towards any religion.
This is Modi's final exam. Will and wait and watch how he will come out of it.

You wait and watch. And expect him to work all day with out sleep.

What did you give him for all the work he had done so far? Simply being self righteous don't take you anywhere. Your enemies will play you like fool. You will never learn what happened to you at the end of the day.

And fraud Babas,
we must punish them. But it should be in house. Why drag everything on to road and make ourselves fools? criminals with much bigger crimes roaming on roads and doing whatever they like to do.

 

[F-14B]

'He Is PM Of India, Not BJP,' Says Furious High Court After Haryana Riots

Chandigarh: Prime Minister Narendra Modi was not spared as a furious court today reprimanded Haryana and the central governments over the deadly rioting by self-styled godman Gurmeet Ram Rahim's followers after his conviction for rape. "He is the Prime Minister of not the BJP but of India," said the Punjab and Haryana High Court.

The court was responding to Additional Solicitor General Satya Pal Jain, who is representing the centre, saying that yesterday's violence was a matter of the state. "Is Haryana not a part of India? Why are Punjab and Haryana treated like step children?" the court questioned.

Earlier, the ML Khattar government in Haryana confronted sharp words as the court said: "You let a city like Panchkula burn for political motives."

You let the situation escalate. You surrendered to the situation," said court, admonishing the state government over a Panchkula police officer being sacked this morning. "You are trying to crucify a small DCP of Panchkula what about those political masters who have been giving wrong directions?" the judges said to the Haryana government.

Nearly three hours of arson and vandalism left Panchkula, always seen as a peaceful second option to adjoining Chandigarh, badly scarred.

The court also asked how many cars were allowed into Panchkula yesterday afternoon when Ram Rahim arrived from Sirsa - the Dera headquarters - in a large convoy for the court verdict.

Chief Minister ML Khattar had acknowledged yesterday that there were lapses. The "lapses have been identified and we are taking appropriate steps," he said last night, adding: "This should not have happened."

But in another statement, he also appeared to shield Ram Rahim's followers as he said criminals had infiltrated the crowd of Dera Sacha Sauda devotees.

The comments were not missed by the court, which said: "Your Chief Minister said miscreants got mixed up with Dera people, giving the impression that they didn't do anything, you're still supporting them, you are the ones who made this happen."

___________

The hornable court would also do well to remember that Law and order is a state subject and the center is only empowered when the state request it to

 

[here2where]

You wait and watch. And expect him to work all day with out sleep.

What did you give him for all the work he had done so far? Simply being self righteous don't take you anywhere. Your enemies will play you like fool. You will never learn what happened to you at the end of the day.

And fraud Babas,
we know how to punish them. Why drag everything on to road and make ourselves fools? criminals with much bigger crimes roaming on roads and doing whatever they like to do.

Sir, remember - it is more important to APPEAR to do the rightful thing, than to actually do the right thing.
Modi must APPEAR to be fair to all religions. Therein lies Bharat's future.

 

[here2where]

.. IF YOU ARE A THREAT TO LAW AND ORDER OR ANYTHING EVEN GREATER THAN THAT THEN YOU MUST BE TAKEN DOWN USING ANY MEANS NECESSARY...

.... irrepective of religion. that should be Modi's stance. Else we are doomed.

 

[Nicky G]

@Nicky G YOU BEING AN OUTSIDER TO THE PUNJAB SITUATION ARE FREE TO MAKE ANY CONCLUSION BUT THEY MIGHT NOT BE TRUE. CONTEXT HAS BEEN SAME IN BOTH CASES AS I SEE IT. BOTH WERE BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION BY THE RESPECTIVE STATE GOVTS... AND FINALLY, THEY HAD TO ACT. IF A GOVT IS CAPABLE OF ENDING MILITANCY THEN THEY VERY WELL CAPABLE OF PREVENTING A RIOT.
DM ME FOR PLETHORA OF STEPS THAT COULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN...

AND BEFORE YOU DRAW SOME OTHER CONCLUSIONS LET ME JUST SAY IT LOUD AND CLEAR" IF YOU ARE A THREAT TO LAW AND ORDER OR ANYTHING EVEN GREATER THAN THAT THEN YOU MUST BE TAKEN DOWN USING ANY MEANS NECESSARY."

It has nothing to do with being an outsider, its simple facts for anyone to see for themselves. Everything else apart, you are comparing a one day event to an insurgency that lasted well over a decade. Not to mention an insurgency that led to invasion of there Golden temple and subsequent assassination of a PM.

Why are you using all caps? Calm down, we can disagree and be civil at the same time. No need to be angry.

Yes the pic's from Mumbai five years ago. Do you think the police should have fired there?

 

[ezsasa]

Story not over yet...................
More masala in coming days..........