First export of the LCH to Sri Lanka?

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Phenom

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@p2prada

We have a saying, 'You can wake a man who is sleeping but you can never wake a man who is pretending to sleep'.

No matter what evidence I give you, you are going to believe what you want to believe, so no use in pointing you to more evidence.
 

p2prada

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@p2prada

We have a saying, 'You can wake a man who is sleeping but you can never wake a man who is pretending to sleep'.

No matter what evidence I give you, you are going to believe what you want to believe, so no use in pointing you to more evidence.
So, all I had to do was challenge you with a bit of logic and you back off.

Tell me, what is the name of the journo who reported the news about the rope and the fisherman? Who were the witnesses to the murder? In case one fisherman was murdered what happened to the others? These are questions you can ask anybody who support this news.

The minute you hear about dead fishermen the population in TN starts assuming the only thing that can kill the invincible TN fishermen are the Sri Lankan Navy. Smuggling is rampant in TN, very very frequent. So, why is that being disregarded? SL is not the bogeyman as you are assuming to believe. The fishermen population in TN is not literate, they will believe anything they see in print. You could be one of the people who can remove that misconception from their minds. Trade links between SL and TN will go a long way in reducing the effects of smuggling in the area.

I never asked for proof from you about the rope. All I did was ask a few questions which can be easily available. All I want to know is who this story came from? It is obvious the murderer will not admit, the victim will never speak. But, if the news is to get out, there should be some one who is witness to the murder. It could be the injured fishermen, who miraculously escaped from the Navy or a third witness who saw everything and went running back to the shore. These are extremely simple questions. If these questions do not have an answer, then the story is obviously fabricated. For all you know the fisherman in question may only have been taken prisoner by the Navy, murdered by smugglers or died due to the natural environment in the sea.
 

Param

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@p2prada

We have a saying, 'You can wake a man who is sleeping but you can never wake a man who is pretending to sleep'.

No matter what evidence I give you, you are going to believe what you want to believe, so no use in pointing you to more evidence.
You are right dude.

There is no point arguing with these guys. The world is full of hypocrisy and double standards. Our country is no exception.

Don't these let these guys question us & demand proof as if they are some Court. We are citizens of India and know are rights, no need to answer these guys.

For people who wonder why there are so many separatist insurgencies going on in our great country, the answer is the presence of such attitudes.Attitudes that want this diverse country to forgo every other identity other than their nationality and are ready to bulldoze any resentment with brute force.
A hostile foreign nation will not be successful in creating insurgencies within our country unless the concerned region or community feels let down or discriminated by their own in the first place.

Better to forget this thread or some self appointed "thekedar" of patriotism will question your patriotism.
 

ace009

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You are right dude.

There is no point arguing with these guys. The world is full of hypocrisy and double standards. Our country is no exception.

Don't these let these guys question us & demand proof as if they are some Court. We are citizens of India and know are rights, no need to answer these guys.

For people who wonder why there are so many separatist insurgencies going on in our great country, the answer is the presence of such attitudes.Attitudes that want this diverse country to forgo every other identity other than their nationality and are ready to bulldoze any resentment with brute force.
A hostile foreign nation will not be successful in creating insurgencies within our country unless the concerned region or community feels let down or discriminated by their own in the first place.

Better to forget this thread or some self appointed "thekedar" of patriotism will question your patriotism.
Ahhh - I see! So, now it becomes the old discussion about non-hindi vs Hindi-speaking people - is it?
Conform or be labeled as traitor? Is that it? Hmmm - wonder what would happen in the Eelam - will they let Sinhalese to stay there? How would they treat them?

The reason why there are so many "insurgencies" there in India is because of INTOLERANT people - anyone they do not agree with is their "enemy". The "babus", the police and the landlords exploit the poor people, who in turn resent anyone identifiable with the exploiters (probably understandable) ... The upper castes resent the lower castes and vice versa. The Hindu believers resent the Muslim believers and vice versa. The left resent the right and vice versa. You know - INTOLERANCE ....

Hey - look into the mirror and you may find it there ...
 

p2prada

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You are right dude.

There is no point arguing with these guys. The world is full of hypocrisy and double standards. Our country is no exception.

Don't these let these guys question us & demand proof as if they are some Court. We are citizens of India and know are rights, no need to answer these guys.

For people who wonder why there are so many separatist insurgencies going on in our great country, the answer is the presence of such attitudes.Attitudes that want this diverse country to forgo every other identity other than their nationality and are ready to bulldoze any resentment with brute force.
A hostile foreign nation will not be successful in creating insurgencies within our country unless the concerned region or community feels let down or discriminated by their own in the first place.

Better to forget this thread or some self appointed "thekedar" of patriotism will question your patriotism.
It is exactly the opposite attitude that is required to be a good, patriotic citizen. Insurgencies happen when a mind is subjected to indoctrination and cultivation of hatred against a group of people using pretenses.

The SL Tamil issue was never ours to begin with. India had no right to interfere in the issues of another democratic country. The Tamils in SL could have handled the issue on their own, either through the power of the ballot box or a movement similar to Martin Luther King in the US. The minute we interfered, we destroyed their lives including forcing the Sinhalese to continue hating the Tamils. Even after the LTTE came and went, the life of a SL Tamil today is no different from the life of a SL Tamil in the 60s. Meanwhile, the life of an average Sinhalese has increased by many times in the same time period. Now the SL Tamils have to start all over again. They have to bridge the trust deficit with the Sinhalese and improve their own lives at the same time. It will be difficult, but it is definitely possible. They are back to where they were left in the 60s and have to climb the same ladder again.

SL was never our enemy and will never be. They are not an enemy of the Tamil people either. It is an ideology that has been imprinted in your minds since you were young. Even though they threaten falling into Chinese hands, they never will. They know they will not benefit one bit in a relationship that relies on using one nation against another. We have never done that against either superpowers, if they have learnt anything from us, they will follow the same policy. Their biggest economic partners will be India and TN in particular. This will be a fact and it will be your children who will see that future. You will be too old to let your ideology hamper their work.
 

Phenom

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So, all I had to do was challenge you with a bit of logic and you back off.
Logic :confused: you wanted me to prove that the dead man is dead.

The minute you hear about dead fishermen the population in TN starts assuming the only thing that can kill the invincible TN fishermen are the Sri Lankan Navy.
This condescending attitude is the reason why there are people in TN, who wonder whether we are better off on our own.

Smuggling is rampant in TN, very very frequent. So, why is that being disregarded?
You seem to know TN more than the people who live here.

I never asked for proof from you about the rope. All I did was ask a few questions which can be easily available. All I want to know is who this story came from? It is obvious the murderer will not admit, the victim will never speak. But, if the news is to get out, there should be some one who is witness to the murder.
It could be the injured fishermen, who miraculously escaped from the Navy or a third witness who saw everything and went running back to the shore. These are extremely simple questions. If these questions do not have an answer, then the story is obviously fabricated.
Sri Lanka navy kills another Tamil Nadu fisherman : India: India Today

For all you know the fisherman in question may only have been taken prisoner by the Navy, murdered by smugglers or died due to the natural environment in the sea.
I guess the body with the strangle mark on his neck just appeared miraculously in the hospital.
 
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KS

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Seems like your judgement is clouded by being a Tamil. The call for Eelam by the tamils in the late 1960s was the spark that started the war. Indira Gandhi started "supporting" the eelam movement as a way of getting support from MGR, who was a borderline tamil supremacist and separatist himself.
As for creating Eelam and a client state from a country like SL, who is a friendly state - it just goes to show how biased you are ...
Yeah right you just showed how much you know about this in calling a Palakkad (Kerala) Brahmin a Tamil Supremacist.

Next what ? RajniKanth is a Tamil Supremacist ? :pound:

The Tamils who asked for Eelam in SL are also the ones who wanted to separate from India and have a Dravidian nation of their own. Their grand vision was to have a Dravidian nation spanning the southern part of Indian peninsula and the north and east of SL.
Well I guess they were not far off from their target considering the condescending attitude you net warriors show towards your own citizens getting killed in cold blood by a foreign navy and you continue to be apologists for those Sinhalas..
 
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Phenom

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I
The SL Tamil issue was never ours to begin with.
There is no 'our' here, SL Tamil issue is an issue that affects Tamils and thus it is an issue for all Tamils. If you want to say it was never yours then I agree.
They are not an enemy of the Tamil people either. It is an ideology that has been imprinted in your minds since you were young.
I don't think you have the right to decide that. As long as the Sri Lanka discriminates against Tamils, the vast majority of Tamils in India would be anti-SL.


Your entire post makes one thing clear, you don't know even the basics of what happened in Srilanka in the early 80s, yet you have decided on advicing the Tamils how we should conduct ourselves.
 
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KS

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The minute you hear about dead fishermen the population in TN starts assuming the only thing that can kill the invincible TN fishermen are the Sri Lankan Navy.
So who else comes in SLN Boats and kills them ? Shape shifting mutants ? *facepalm*

Smuggling is rampant in TN, very very frequent.
Now Mr.I-want-proof, give me the proof for your accusation.

So, why is that being disregarded? SL is not the bogeyman as you are assuming to believe. The fishermen population in TN is not literate, they will believe anything they see in print. You could be one of the people who can remove that misconception from their minds. Trade links between SL and TN will go a long way in reducing the effects of smuggling in the area.
First give me 'irrefutable'; proof of the smuggling happening.

Secondly even if they were smugglers can't you (an emerging Super Power with the fifth largest Navy) force those puny islanders to listen to you and atleast formally arrest the smugglers instead of shooting them ?

They are your citizens to be tried in your courts, not for a foreign country to shoot.
 
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KS

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Your entire post makes one thing clear, you don't know even the basics of what happened in Srilanka in the early 80s, yet you have decided on advicing the Tamils how we should conduct ourselves.
They don't know the basics,more importantly they DON'T want to know the basics.
 

ace009

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Hey! I just realized - you are not an Indian - you are Indian/ Tamilian!! sooooo taht's why!
 

plugwater

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p2p, We can see reports of SL navy harassing our fishermen almost every week in local TV channels, Just because NdTV or TOI do not cover those, they are not true, We usually make the headlines only for wrong reasons(Corruption).

Regarding the killing of Tamils in SL war, I am against directly involving in it, but we should not have supplied arms to Lankans and more importantly we should not have bailed out Lankans for human right violation. Just think about how our govt used to react if Isreal shoots a Palestinian and compare it with the killing of 40k SL Tamils?

Some helped LTTE in the past through sea but killing our fishermen now for past activities of some is wrong.
 

KS

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Hey! I just realized - you are not an Indian - you are Indian/ Tamilian!! sooooo taht's why!
The point being ?

More than that - I'm a Indian/Tamilian/Hindu/Coimbatorean and so forth with all identities applying simultaneously.

Does it take away the truth from my statements a bit sir ?

India = Country
Tamil = Language.
Why bother to explain ? I'm really tired of explaining it to everyone.

Unity in Diversity..Anyone ?
 
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Phenom

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Hey! I just realized - you are not an Indian - you are Indian/ Tamilian!! sooooo taht's why!
You just realized that know :rolleyes:, you really don't understand India do you.

Being an Indian doesn't mean you can't be anything else. We all have multiple identities, that's why there are so many patriotic Maharashtrians who still support MNS, and why Nitesh Kumar returned the 5 crore that Gujarat gave Bihar as aid, and also why there was so much support in Punjab for the journalist who threw a shoe at the HM of the country.

India continues to be a single nation because the country never demands any person to choose one identity over another. We are all allowed to be Indian Tamil/Hindu/Muslim/Punjabi/Whatever.
 

LurkerBaba

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India continues to be a single nation because the country never demands any person to choose one identity over another. We are all allowed to be Indian Tamil/Hindu/Muslim/Punjabi/Whatever.
Not too long ago I had this notion of a uniform 'hanized' India (one language, one culture etc.)

Later, I realized how close this ideology was to the one adopted by the Paks !

India is just too different to fit into the narrow western terms of a 'nation state'. It is much more than that...infact we have transcended such crude terms !

/emotional offtopic rant :p
 
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civfanatic

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India is not nation-state. We are a seperate self-contained world.
 
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LurkerBaba

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India is not nation-state. We are a seperate self-contained world.
:)

People have made mistakes identifying India. Morons like Jinnah who could only see two mythical nation states, and of-course that Churchill guy who just saw a 'geographical expression'
 

p2prada

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p2p, We can see reports of SL navy harassing our fishermen almost every week in local TV channels, Just because NdTV or TOI do not cover those, they are not true, We usually make the headlines only for wrong reasons(Corruption).

Regarding the killing of Tamils in SL war, I am against directly involving in it, but we should not have supplied arms to Lankans and more importantly we should not have bailed out Lankans for human right violation. Just think about how our govt used to react if Isreal shoots a Palestinian and compare it with the killing of 40k SL Tamils?

Some helped LTTE in the past through sea but killing our fishermen now for past activities of some is wrong.
There is really no difference between the way the Tamilians are being treated in Sri Lanka as compared to the way Indian Army treats civilians in the North East.

Even if I was a Tamilian, it was never an Indian Tamil decision to interfere in the life of a Sri Lankan Tamil. It is exactly how the Pakistani Muslims like to comment about the life of Indian Muslims. The Indian muslim openly tells the Pakistani muslim to not interfere. Similarly there will come a time when the SL Tamil will say the same to the Indian Tamil. There is literally no difference between the two.

Had the SL Tamils been left alone nothing of this sort would have happened. It was our support of the LTTE and other militant groups that led to the downfall of the SL Tamils. Now the SL Tamils are worse off than the way they were before. The Sinhalese reacted to terrorism and it was that which started the killings initially. The subsequent war did the rest. It is no different from what the IA did in Kashmir where entire villages were massacred. It is no different than what the Israelis are doing in Palestine or Lebanon.

You say we should not have given weapons, that is right. We shouldn't have supported the separatists in the first place. Now healing the war wounds will take decades and the SL Tamil lives will be no better for it.

The reason why we supported the SL govt in the human rights abuse is because the only way to get the Tamil population back on track is by using diplomacy. There is no choice but for the Tamils and Sinhalese to co-exist. There is no scope for creating a new state. The SL Army is too powerful for a new LTTE to be born and India will obviously not interfere no matter what. So expect a Naxal type situation hitting the nation in the future unless India interferes with economic gifts of trade and goodwill. Do you think if TN continues to be hostile to the Sinhalese then the situation will be resolved?

The struggle for a separate nation is what led to all the problems in the first place.

As for killing of fishermen. This is happening in the Pakistani areas and Bangladeshi border too. The TN people made an enemy of SL and they are doing what a lot of countries practice at times of war. The Indian govt can only handle this issue diplomatically and not by using force. Like I already said, the Tamils in SL could have taken care of themselves. The interference of Indian Tamils has only been counter-productive and is affecting the lives of fishermen. We have ourselves to blame for all the killings that's happening.
 

p2prada

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First give me 'irrefutable'; proof of the smuggling happening.
Smuggling is rampant in the whole country. Proof is available in plenty, but nobody will come forward with it. Witnesses have short life spans. Smuggling happens between Sri Lanka and India constantly. It is a big business especially in Srilanka where the laws are lax.

Smugglers prey on Sri Lankan refugees in India | ReliefWeb

Liquor smuggling racket from Sri Lanka to India busted - News From Police & Court - Tops Sri Lanka - Tops.lk

Sri Lanka News-Adaderana-Truth First - Lanka-India gold smuggling racket flushed

Marine wealth plundered by Indian smugglers

4 caught smuggling goods to Lanka - Times Of India

Secondly even if they were smugglers can't you (an emerging Super Power with the fifth largest Navy) force those puny islanders to listen to you and atleast formally arrest the smugglers instead of shooting them ?
The only superpower in the world fears Cuba.

They are your citizens to be tried in your courts, not for a foreign country to shoot.
Nope. Law states maritime patrols and border patrols can handle the situation by themselves. There are numerous reports of American patrols shooting Mexican civilians on sight while attempting to cross borders.

Mexican president confronts Clinton over border shooting - CNN

Mexican Teen Killed by U.S. Border Patrol Agent - FoxNews.com
Mexico's Foreign Relations Department said its records indicate the number of Mexicans killed or wounded by immigration authorities rose from five in 2008 to 12 in 2009 to 17 so far this year, which is not half over.
An Indian citizen commits a crime in India, then he is liable to be punished in India. An Indian citizen commits a crime in Sri Lanka then he will be punished according to their laws. Kasab is an example of that. He is a Pakistani citizen but will be given the death sentence in India. There is a reason why we want to try Headley and Quattrochi in India as well.
 
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