Combat Aircraft technology and Evolution

BON PLAN

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F-16 fitted with their requirement, after all they wanted the F-16 Block 60 to replace the french junk they have .. Mirage 2000-9, but unfortunately everyone knows its junk now, not even the French want it.

UAE always is looking for planes that can counter Iran, Mirage 2000 does not have the range and load to take on Iran, with Geographical position of UAE, Mirage 2000 is at preset an interceptor, it cannot face the F-14 that Iran uses.

USA is very clear about their polices, french are not really not sure of their own policy and they define this undecideness as Flexible, They were flexible when the Americans told them to stop deliveries of Mistraal almost till a week before it was cancelled, the French were very sure to deliver the Mistrals.

So,let us not talk about how reliable the French. When USA eyes France, France just folls over and plays dead like a good doggie.
Mirage 2000-9 order was signed in 1998. (3.4 $billion for 30 new and 33 refurbished planes)

F16-60 order was firm in 2000. (6.4 $billion for 80 unit)

Whaouw ! what a difference ! Sur UAE pilots and top brass are not aware about capability of fighters....

F14 against M2000 ? you are pulling my leg Kid. it's a 10m² SER plane against a 0.2m² SER plane. With it's 70's area radar Tomcat will be eat before seeing M2000....
 

smestarz

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Mirage 2000-9 order was signed in 1998. (3.4 $billion for 30 new and 33 refurbished planes)

F16-60 order was firm in 2000. (6.4 $billion for 80 unit)

Whaouw ! what a difference ! Sur UAE pilots and top brass are not aware about capability of fighters....

F14 against M2000 ? you are pulling my leg Kid. it's a 10m² SER plane against a 0.2m² SER plane. With it's 70's area radar Tomcat will be eat before seeing M2000....
Lol, you really are a frog, were you notthe same joker who was talking of the capability of AIM-54 Phoenix missile? Forgot ? Try not to compare them sweetie, most people might start to have a laugh,
F-16 comes with AESA... Mirage 2000-9 . RDY.. big difference and surely after using both the planes, UAE understood that F-16 is the plane to keep, and Mirage 2000-9 the plane to get rid of.. No wonder they are trying so hard.
 

smestarz

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Mirage 2000-9 order was signed in 1998. (3.4 $billion for 30 new and 33 refurbished planes)

F16-60 order was firm in 2000. (6.4 $billion for 80 unit)

Whaouw ! what a difference ! Sur UAE pilots and top brass are not aware about capability of fighters....

F14 against M2000 ? you are pulling my leg Kid. it's a 10m² SER plane against a 0.2m² SER plane. With it's 70's area radar Tomcat will be eat before seeing M2000....
If the Mirage 2000 is so wonderful as you say, why is France not eager to take it? After all its a plane that you say is very capable (70% as good as Rafale) and cheaper than Rafale.. considering that india paid 50 m a plane for upgrade.. India did sort of pay the French beggars for upgrading Mirage 2000 maybe involved kickbacks, else at least thats now friends exploit.. Our DM is smart, he knows that in politics ther are no friends, only interests. So if French want to be "friends" then our price.. If not the russians are already our best friends.
 

BON PLAN

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If the Mirage 2000 is so wonderful as you say, why is France not eager to take it? After all its a plane that you say is very capable (70% as good as Rafale) and cheaper than Rafale.. considering that india paid 50 m a plane for upgrade.. India did sort of pay the French beggars for upgrading Mirage 2000 maybe involved kickbacks, else at least thats now friends exploit.. Our DM is smart, he knows that in politics ther are no friends, only interests. So if French want to be "friends" then our price.. If not the russians are already our best friends.
Rafale is made to replace all the other plane in AdlA inventory. So why taking Mirage 2000 back?
And AdlA already has 35 Mirage 2000-5 and is upgrading 55 Mirage 200 D. It's enough.

Rafale can take 2x more weapons on more range than M2000. Saying Mirage 2000 (and what version of Mirage?) is 70% as capable as Rafale is just a misinformation. But you are a specalist in misinformation (much more than in aeronautical)
 

PaliwalWarrior

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I heard that the need for a new radome was because the old one was incompatible with the radar. Nothing to do with aerodynamics.
New radome because old one was incompatible with radar ?

Ciome the new one is quartz radome for better range
 

smestarz

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Rafale is made to replace all the other plane in AdlA inventory. So why taking Mirage 2000 back?
And AdlA already has 35 Mirage 2000-5 and is upgrading 55 Mirage 200 D. It's enough.

Rafale can take 2x more weapons on more range than M2000. Saying Mirage 2000 (and what version of Mirage?) is 70% as capable as Rafale is just a misinformation. But you are a specalist in misinformation (much more than in aeronautical)
This info was posted by Picde ... when he was justifying the price of US$ 50 M/plane... maybe you should ask him to get the facts right..

The french show a nice rosy picture, and when confronted, they seem to change the words..
 

tsunami

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Is this is unique to tejas?

Or is it that quartz radome increases the range of all radars ?
It doesn't increase the range of radar, rather it let it perform at it's maximum capability. The one we had was stopping the radar to perform at it' maximum.
 

BON PLAN

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Lol, you really are a frog, were you notthe same joker who was talking of the capability of AIM-54 Phoenix missile? Forgot ? Try not to compare them sweetie, most people might start to have a laugh,
F-16 comes with AESA... Mirage 2000-9 . RDY.. big difference and surely after using both the planes, UAE understood that F-16 is the plane to keep, and Mirage 2000-9 the plane to get rid of.. No wonder they are trying so hard.
To fire a missile, even if it is a Phoenix, you need to track the opponent. Old tech against edge tech. No chance.

RDY is one of the best classical antenna radar. AESA are far more versatile (can do AtoA and AtoG simultaneously), but in one role (AtoA for exemple), they are not finished. See EF.
 
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BON PLAN

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Lol, you really are a frog, were you notthe same joker who was talking of the capability of AIM-54 Phoenix missile? Forgot ? Try not to compare them sweetie, most people might start to have a laugh,
F-16 comes with AESA... Mirage 2000-9 . RDY.. big difference and surely after using both the planes, UAE understood that F-16 is the plane to keep, and Mirage 2000-9 the plane to get rid of.. No wonder they are trying so hard.
So you mean indian pepole are idiot? (I'm just translating your opinion)
They are idiot because they pay hard for a non AESA Mirage 2000 upgrade.....
Strange because your loving ally Israel can supply an AESA radar for it.

So or the indian people are idiot, OR you misunderstand the capacity of RDY and Mirage 2000 in a whole.

Make you choice my dear
 

BON PLAN

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This info was posted by Picde ... when he was justifying the price of US$ 50 M/plane... maybe you should ask him to get the facts right..

The french show a nice rosy picture, and when confronted, they seem to change the words..
Too easy... Show me this post.
 

garg_bharat

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This info was posted by Picde ... when he was justifying the price of US$ 50 M/plane... maybe you should ask him to get the facts right..

The french show a nice rosy picture, and when confronted, they seem to change the words..
I believe that French technology is good. There is always some hyperbole when a salesman is involved, but there is no reason to doubt every word.

IAF likes French planes, this fact is beyond any doubt.

I think all brochures overstate real capabilities, and this includes Russian products.

I think Indians are very honest with the specs (like LCA-Tejas in BIAS). Indians are yet to become a good salesman.

I think LCA-Tejas should be produced in large number and improved as much as possible in blocks. This plane has potential. Tejas is no competitor of Rafale though, but fits the needs of India.
 

sorcerer

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HAL Begins Integration of Mid-Air-Refueling Probe on Tejas
BANGALORE: Engineers and technicians at Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd’s (HAL) LCA-Tejas Division have begun the extremely complex integration of the aerial refueling probe on to the Tejas fighter.

During a visit to the HAL facilities, Mathrubhumi witnessed the fitment tests on the Limited Series Production-8 (LSP-8) variant of Tejas. The air-to-air probe, supplied by UK-based Cobham, is being fixed in front of the canopy and on the right side of the aircraft.


Similar to Mirage, Tejas too will have a fixed aerial refueling probe. “The modification of LSP-8 is under progress. The structural modification for the attachment and load is under way. We also have to undertake fuel system and software modifications,” says V Sridharan, General Manager, LCA.
The pressure refueling process on LSP-8 and SP-1 have already been demonstrated. Last year, the naval LCA (NP2) underwent ‘hot refueling’ at HAL facilities. Both were mandatory tests ahead of fixing the fuel probe.
“Once the probe is fixed and structural integration is done, then we will have the ground tests, which will be followed by flight trials. The efficiency of the Flight Control System will also be tested,” says Sridharan.
According to him, HAL has the expertise in fixing mid-air fuel probes on Jaguar trainers. The work share for this critical integration work is being split between Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), Aircraft Research and Design Centre (ARDC), Tata Advanced System Laboratories (TASL) and LCA Tejas Division.
“TASL is been entrusted with tool design and tooling supply, ADA is the programme agency responsible for production, structural design and software, ARDC has been entrusted with structures and systems, while we (LCA-Teas Division) are the final integration agency,” says Sridharan.
Flight Trials to be Completed Next Year
HAL hopes to complete the modifications on Tejas LSP-8 by May this year so that the flight trials could begin in June. As per the current schedule, by March 2017, HAL needs to complete the testing and flight trials ahead of certification.
HAL Chairman T Suvarna Raju, who is keeping a close watch on the production schedules, said that the complex integration work is nearing completion. “Once the integration work is done, we will have the engagement checks to ensure that the flow is right. This will be followed by dry and wet runs again to check the flow rate of fuel. Finally, we will take the fighter for the mid-air-refueling trials,” says Raju.
HAL officials say that the carriage trials in June will be immediately followed by dry contact tests. Once Tejas is fitted with the mid-air-refueling probe, it multiplies the aircraft range and radius of action.
Mid-air-refueling probe is one of the key parameters HAL-ADA combine need to fulfil, ahead of the Final Operational Clearance. HAL says from the first Tejas MKI-A aircraft onwards (21st fighter in the series production plans), all platforms will be fitted with the air-to-air refueling probe.
“However, if the IAF wishes, then it could enter into a separate contract with HAL, to retro-fit even the first 20 series production variants with these probes,” says an official.
In a related development, Tejas LSP3 and LSP7 have reached Jamnagar ahead of IAF’s Fire Power Demonstration -- Iron Fist-2016.
The writer is an author, blogger and seasoned aerospace and defence journalist in India. His upcoming book ‘Precious Souls’ captures the inspiring lives of special children and their families. He is currently a Content Consultant with Mathrubhumi (English) Online and tweets @writetake

Source>>
 

akk

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IFR was meant to be part of FOC. Does it mean FOC has been further postponed to 2017?
 

garg_bharat

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@akk, the refueling probe is not a part of first 20 production aircraft.

I think the deliveries will start in the later part of current year.
 

smestarz

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I believe that French technology is good. There is always some hyperbole when a salesman is involved, but there is no reason to doubt every word.

IAF likes French planes, this fact is beyond any doubt.

I think all brochures overstate real capabilities, and this includes Russian products.

I think Indians are very honest with the specs (like LCA-Tejas in BIAS). Indians are yet to become a good salesman.

I think LCA-Tejas should be produced in large number and improved as much as possible in blocks. This plane has potential. Tejas is no competitor of Rafale though, but fits the needs of India.
It is no competitor as yet, as its new kid on the block and more will be known about it when its fully operational.
then there will be more upgrades asked by IAF to imrpove the performance. As I pointed out, Tejas has the advangate of a bigger nose cone and hence a potentially bigger AESA than Rafale, Also Tejas is already qualfied for long range missiles like R-77 which is in stocks with IAF and in many scenarios a plane that can detect first with its longer range Radar and target with longer range missiles will win. So, if we use the advantages of Tejas,it will give Rafale a run for its money. Surely Rafale has an advantage of range and Warload and better speeds.
 

smestarz

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To fire a missile, even if it is a Phoenix, you need to track the opponent. Old tech against edge tech. No chance.

RDY is one of the best classical antenna radar. AESA are far more versatile (can do AtoA and AtoG simultaneously), but in one role (AtoA for exemple), they are not finished. See EF.
So you mean to say. F-16 Block 60 with AESA and AMRAAM and Mirage 2000 wih its outdated Radar and smaller ranged MICA confront then Mirage 2000 will be able to hit F-16 from distance.. You do sound foolish dear boy. Go ahead have a glass of nice wine and dream on.
UAE is realistic, and they have seen both planes and guess they are dumping the one which is inferior.
 

smestarz

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So you mean indian pepole are idiot? (I'm just translating your opinion)
They are idiot because they pay hard for a non AESA Mirage 2000 upgrade.....
Strange because your loving ally Israel can supply an AESA radar for it.

So or the indian people are idiot, OR you misunderstand the capacity of RDY and Mirage 2000 in a whole.

Make you choice my dear
I really should discount your thinking power, maybe you are not even 10% of most posters here..
Your question.. "If indians are stupid to pay that high price for Mirage 2000 upgrade .." the word is not "stupid" but CORRUPT ..And if you use the word kickbacks and corrupt, then the deal to upgrade Mirage 2000 without an AESA etc.. then it makes sense, and also makes sense why Rafale wa declared L1, but then with new govt seeing all the details, feel Rafale is not worth.

IAF themselves put a conditon that any plane for MMRCA should have an AESA, and specially when they do that, and request the same for Tejas, why do they not want AESA for Mirage 2000. I mean the plane is outdated now, and outdated even after upgrade..Mirage 2000 eve after upgrade is no match for PAF F-16...
I mean we cannot send a "premier" fighter plane with an escort.

So, Indians are corrupt, and the French are too (they do pack kickbacks) and that is what was getting orders for French..and that is why Mirage 2000 was upgraded at such high price and Rafale declared L1.. so clear about it?
 

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