Chinese troops too close for India's comfort, warns top general

[Godless-Kafir]

I doubt that. Japan maybe rising to become more independent on its ambitions, but its largest concern is a rapid growing China. If it is smart it will take advantage of its strong relations with the US, like many others in the region to contain the PRC.

Wasn't China the largest Aid donor for Japan in this current Tsunami and Earthquake relief?

 

[no smoking]

Wasn't China the largest Aid donor for Japan in this current Tsunami and Earthquake relief?

Meaning nothing! The problem between China and Japan is far beyond the money resolution. No matter how much both sides gov make the effort, the public wouldn't buy it.

 

[sandeepdg]

Meaning nothing! The problem between China and Japan is far beyond the money resolution. No matter how much both sides gov make the effort, the public wouldn't buy it.

So what does the Chinese public want with regards to their anger for Japan ? Do you want to annihilate Japan ? I mean what according to the Chinese people should Japan do to make amends for its past atrocities.

 

[sandeepdg]

I doubt that. Japan maybe rising to become more independent on its ambitions, but its largest concern is a rapid growing China. If it is smart it will take advantage of its strong relations with the US, like many others in the region to contain the PRC.

I didn't say that Japan will break all ties with the US, obviously not, they need the Americans more than anyone in Asia ! I am saying that eventually Japan will look to bolster its own military strength independent of US support, so that their dependence on the Americans to fulfill their defense requirements lessen over time. But they will obviously continue to be a strategic partner of the US, since the Japanese know that they don't have what it takes to contain a rapidly rising China. We may see more indigenous weapons and systems being built by the Japanese for their own requirements. One step in that direction is probably the Japanese stealth fighter program, which obviously must be having a substantial US support, but over time they would like make it more and more of a domestic platform, that is as and when it does debut.

 

[no smoking]

So what does the Chinese public want with regards to their anger for Japan ? Do you want to annihilate Japan ? I mean what according to the Chinese people should Japan do to make amends for its past atrocities.

No, Chineses want a true apology from the bottom of heart made by Japanese and all the war criminals to be condemned by japanese for ever!

You see there is a big difference between both sides' cultural: japanese believes that people's evil should be forgiven and forgot after his or her death, while Chinese doesn't think so.

 

[tarunraju]

No, Chineses want a true apology from the bottom of heart made by Japanese and all the war criminals to be condemned by japanese for ever!

You see there is a big difference between both sides' cultural: japanese believes that people's evil should be forgiven and forgot after his or her death, while Chinese doesn't think so.

I agree Japan should have apologized to China the same way Germany apologized to the rest of Europe, but this is a bad time to ask for an apology. A huge chunk of Japan's territory is under threat of being rendered inhospitable due to nuclear radiation, and its economy has gone for a toss. Maybe when Japan can pull itself out of this crisis, it should have the good sense to apologize to Asian countries all the way up to Myanmar.

 

[AOE]

Why do you say so?

Nobody wants to see China "crushed", but rather a bit more responsible (wrt to Indians atleast!).

I agree here, this is a good post and is something I've been trying to say for a while now. The days of crushing an enemy completely; culturally, socially, politically, economically, etc... are over. I would like to see China as a friend and not an enemy, my only difference with the Chinese is their behavior on the world stage and ideological differences.

I didn't say that Japan will break all ties with the US, obviously not, they need the Americans more than anyone in Asia ! I am saying that eventually Japan will look to bolster its own military strength independent of US support, so that their dependence on the Americans to fulfill their defense requirements lessen over time. But they will obviously continue to be a strategic partner of the US, since the Japanese know that they don't have what it takes to contain a rapidly rising China. We may see more indigenous weapons and systems being built by the Japanese for their own requirements. One step in that direction is probably the Japanese stealth fighter program, which obviously must be having a substantial US support, but over time they would like make it more and more of a domestic platform, that is as and when it does debut.

Then it appears we agree more than we realize.

Japan is more than capable of building a very sizable armed forces, especially navy and air force; which is important in any post-WWII conflict for supremacy. I think with time the US will start to let go of their controls and allow for the Japanese to build their own forces, at least in the current topic of containing the PRC. I think part of the fear up until the last few decades has been whether or not Japan has learned anything from WWII, and if it would seek revenge.

Wasn't China the largest Aid donor for Japan in this current Tsunami and Earthquake relief?

Yes, but I think there is still hostilities over what happened during WWII, which are more deeply ingrained. I guess one could say the effort to give aid is one possible attempt to reconcile.

No, Chineses want a true apology from the bottom of heart made by Japanese and all the war criminals to be condemned by japanese for ever!

You see there is a big difference between both sides' cultural: japanese believes that people's evil should be forgiven and forgot after his or her death, while Chinese doesn't think so.

I think tarunraju summed this one up best, and yes there should be apologies by others. Part of the reason WWII happened was due to the fact nobody learned from WWI. The powers of the time, probably with the exception of Woodrow Wilson, did little to reconcile with their enemies, and to make sure everything is alright. That's part of the reason why Nazi Germany was as successful as it was in gaining power, and killing 20 million people in the process. We don't want to see a repeat between the Japanese and Chinese in the region.

 

[Virendra]

Ok. This has become a sino japan thread

 

[sandeepdg]

Okay, no more Japan - China issues here ! Back to the topic, please folks. So what happens if we see that Chinese are slowly moving into POK after some time just to have grip on their proposed trade route to Central Asia ? What will be India's reaction to that ? Your views, please.

 

[niharjhatn]

No, Chineses want a true apology from the bottom of heart made by Japanese and all the war criminals to be condemned by japanese for ever!

You see there is a big difference between both sides' cultural: japanese believes that people's evil should be forgiven and forgot after his or her death, while Chinese doesn't think so.

Ha ha, good luck for getting "an apology from the bottom of the heart"! You think the Germans, when they "apologised" by signing the treaty of Versailles, good things came out of it?

The humiliation caused by the treaty was what prompted the far right wing to gain so much support, eventually leading Hitler to power! Hitler continually attacked the ineffective government of the Weimar Republic for signing such a treaty, and it eventually became ingrained in the Germans when the mobilised again that they were simply taking their rightful territory back - a spiralling cascade that led to WW2.

The Japanese, with pride and honour such a large part in their culture (death before dishonour and all that) will never freely give an apology without serious repercussions.

 

[amoy]

The Japanese, with pride and honour such a large part in their culture (death before dishonour and all that) will never freely give an apology with no serious repercussions.

The Chinese, with pride and honour such a large part in their culture (cherishing life though) will never forgive if there's no apology with a serious remorse. those sex slaves (comfort women), laborers, victims of chemical weapons, still alive... there'd be protests so long as japnese politicians pay tribute to war criminals in Yoshiguni Shrines every year, or as Japan publishes/uses school textbooks which beautify / distort war history

 

[arya]

/\/\/\ I agree with you . Even if Japan become militarily aggressive it will be good for USA as Japan will share common concern of containing China and thus will reduce burden from USA shoulders. I dont see much difference between USA and Japan on issue of containing China.

do you think now japan is capable to contain china well frankly i dont think so taiwan+japan+india can be a option but fact is india is very weak in defence related sector

 

[amoy]

do you think now japan is capable to contain china well frankly

I wish u had followed news such as Fukushima: As bad as Chernobyl? Jpan is simply mired in the crisis, yet to reover in years. so for now it's unrealistic for Japn to join the containing chorus. As for Taiwan the cross-strait military tensions were gone and economic interests get interwoven. Although TW still wants to keep PRS in check from getting over-aggressive, TW obviously doesn't wanna become a cat's paw for India or Japan. But I do see India selling arms to TW a good idea

 

[amitkriit]

China's flip-flop on Kashmir

Indian officials are smiling like Cheshire cats as China quietly pulls back on a Kashmiri policy that roiled relations the past two year. However, New Delhi is still uncertain as to why Beijing suddenly took this path of diplomatic thorns. The initial view was that Beijing's twin decisions to begin
issuing stapled visas to Indian Kashmiris and then deny a visa to the head of the army's Northern Command because his ambit included Kashmir was part of a Chinese grand strategy aimed at India.

Today, Indian officials are coming around to the view that the Kashmir shift and unshift was really evidence of incoherence within the Chinese system. "Beijing is struggling to handle the demands of an increasingly demanding world," said one. China, superpower in the making, was more stumbling than sinister.

New Delhi, after a careful review of the information, has concluded the two Kashmiri moves arose from decisions at lower level bureaucrats designed to placate a weakening Pakistan. Little or no thought was given about the consequences. Worse, organizations like the Chinese foreign ministry who would have known better were out of the loop. Thus the Northern Command decision was taken by a low-level national ministry of defence. "May be the clerk had something against the Northern Command," said one official.

What there is no doubt about is that China was completely taken aback at the strength of Indian response. The Chinese, say sources, may have concluded the Kashmir policy would not be a big deal given India's track record of keeping quiet on many other issues with China.

Having made a blunder, the problem say Indian officials was that "Beijing didn't know how to walk it back."

Initial Indian complaints bounced off China. The real game-changer was when, at a foreign secretaries meeting in Sichuan last year, India hinted it would change its Tibet and Taiwan policies. India declined to endorse the one China policy when Premier Wen Jiabao came visiting in December last year.

Once India concluded that the stakes were smaller than expected, it began to hunt for ways to give China a face saving way to wiggle out of its diplomatic hole.

So an "administrative solution" on the stapled visa issues was allowed to slowly become a full withdrawal of the policy. Northern Command officers will be mixed in among general army officers on a trip to China.

Bejing seems to have been desperate to get out of the hole it had dug. It had been shocked by the strength of the Indian response. Especially that of the Indian media – a response that triggered an anti-tirade among China's online community. Some Chinese believe that confrontation with India only drives the latter close to the United States and that combination gives them reason to pause.

Finally, as Chinese scholars say privately, Beijing sees its support for Pakistan as one of diminishing expectations. "What ultimately was China getting out of this visa problem?" asked an official. The answer was little or nothing.

But India will now be forever warier. At the very least the super-efficient Chinese government machinery proved dysfunctional on the most sensitive of all Indian foreign policy concerns.

 

[no smoking]

I agree Japan should have apologized to China the same way Germany apologized to the rest of Europe, but this is a bad time to ask for an apology. A huge chunk of Japan's territory is under threat of being rendered inhospitable due to nuclear radiation, and its economy has gone for a toss. Maybe when Japan can pull itself out of this crisis, it should have the good sense to apologize to Asian countries all the way up to Myanmar.

I think you are underestimating the problem: this issue has been there since 1970. In last 80s and 90s, when their economy was in a good time, they still refused to make a true apology. So, it seems that there will never be a good time to request an apology.

 

[niharjhatn]

The Chinese, with pride and honour such a large part in their culture (cherishing life though) will never forgive if there's no apology with a serious remorse. those sex slaves (comfort women), laborers, victims of chemical weapons, still alive... there'd be protests so long as japnese politicians pay tribute to war criminals in Yoshiguni Shrines every year, or as Japan publishes/uses school textbooks which beautify / distort war history

Pffff

Let China show some remorse first before you ask the Japanese to show some!!

Apologise for the trouble you have caused before you go and ask for an apology!

Just as China will never apologise regarding Tibet, regarding Sino-Indian war, regarding continual support of Pakistan, the same way the Japanese will not apologise!

China is hardly the upstanding global citizen you portray it to be when save for N-Korea, its relations with all its other neighbours is squeamish!

 

[mattster]

The Chinese, with pride and honour such a large part in their culture (cherishing life though) will never forgive if there's no apology with a serious remorse. those sex slaves (comfort women), laborers, victims of chemical weapons, still alive... there'd be protests so long as japnese politicians pay tribute to war criminals in Yoshiguni Shrines every year, or as Japan publishes/uses school textbooks which beautify / distort war history

I find your statement a tad bit comical. I wonder if you Chinese think that you should apologize for the thousands of Tibetans that were killed or disappeared or exterminated when the Chinese Red Army walked into Tibet some 60 years ago. How many dead Buddhist Monks do you Chinese have on your hands ?

And BTW, who is even counting the number of Uygyur political prisoners and Falun Gong practioners who have quietly disappeared in Chinese prisons.

How about an apology for them...eh ??

 

[Fighterz]

Its funny that you say this. I remember that ethnic chinese were place in concentration camps and their properties stolen and never return. Don't think people will forget about it. Even after pearl harbor, the US compensated and allowed HI to become a US state with a Japanese senator sitting in the US Senate. There are still 2 Japanese Senators in the Senate today. The general is correct. The Chinese will not seek war because they don't have to seek it. The only thing that is keeping India from falling into many countries is the legacy of British rule. Now, we see the rise of Hindi nationalists no better than any form of nationalism. You can bet racism and religious elitism will follow. Of course, it will all be sent to mask the corruption in the Indian government. I don't think there will be an Indian 10-20 years from now. India is too spread out and unified to last long. It has lasted this far due to a fear of foreigners, but online news and other technology will split up the country because the government can not offer benefits to the average people. The insurgency in multiple states is an excellent example. No country on earth can be taken serious if it can't even put down armed rebellion in many of its states. Corruption and civil war destroys any country.

 

[Fighterz]

The Chinese brought money to Tibet for the first time in thousands of years. The Tibet government was an offshoot of British imperialism. You don't need to look further than the completely destruction of "India" under the British. The fact that English, brought on by violence and brutality (never good in any circumstances) is still the official language.

The Chinese have done more than enough. India today still have many problems. You can't have stability when the government takes all the money while the average person can barely survive. This is made worse by the fact that the average person can not relate to the government. You live in California. How did the voters feel bad the state going bankrupt? They protested and vote Democratic. The Indian voters can't protest the government and this will certainly lead to more armed rebellions. The India government will either reform and eliminate corruption or move with more violence and repression without bring any economic benefits. They will try the latter since it worked so well in the last 50 years. Food inflation possibility over a decade will be the greatest threat to the territorial integrity of the Indian state.

 

[mattster]

Dude, you must be dreaming - Every single thing you said about corruption in India is equally true about China. From what i hear directly from Chinese friends - China is equally or maybe even more corrupt than India - the difference between India and China being that much of the official corruption in China does not get reported.

The 2nd difference being China has a much bigger surplus and more money than India, so it can afford to lose more money thru corruption and inefficiency than India. It can also hide huge losses of public funds thru corrution and bad investments more easily than India can. Who is going to question the CCP ?

Even living here in California - I have Chinese friends who have told me about their classmates who are government officials in China who are buying multi-million dollar homes in cash here in California. And you think you dont have a serious corruption issue in China.

The gap between the Rich urban population and the poor rural is getting even worse year by year.

India has 2 major armed rebellions - Kashmir and one in the North-East. The one in the north-East will go away when development picks up. Kashmir is intractable.

China has Tibet and Xinjiang. The difference between China and India is that in China armed militants are quietly killed behind bars.
India on the other hand has to try to negoitiate and appease while trying to contain the armed rebellion. Killing with a military trial is much easier.