China's Richest 1 Percent Hold 70 Percent Of Their Nation's Private Wealth

nimo_cn

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Chinese economy is Bigger than Indian economy,again the wealth distribution of the middle
class is below India.
If you were right, which I highly doubt, does that mean India has more middle-class than China?

Chinese have been faking all their numbers about the economy for years
why would i believe this? I refuse to believe a chinese midldle class person makes more than
some one in the middle class in USA. 60,000 was the number I believe he gave, Real numbers below.
From his link

China's middle-class boom - Jun. 26, 2012


, with most of the wealthier residents residing in the cities. In rural areas, the average disposable income drops to $1,000, but in China's largest cities like Shanghai, Beijing and Shenzhen, it's around $12,000 a year, per person.


if 1,000$ is counted as middle class in China then 800 million+ Indians can be counted as middle class
It is your choice to not believe, but you need to substantiate your suspicion with evidence, like what I did with the 170 million Indian middle-class.

it is simply hilarious that your one third of your middle-class don't even have access to internet.


, with most of the wealthier residents residing in the cities. In rural areas, the average disposable income drops to $1,000, but in China's largest cities like Shanghai, Beijing and Shenzhen, it's around $12,000 a year, per person.

if 1,000$ is counted as middle class in China then 800 million+ Indians can be counted as middle class
No one said 1000$ is counted as middle class in China, please read the article properly, otherwise you are simply making a mokery of yourself.

While there's no official "middle-class" in China, (Chinese people don't use the concept), a household considered to be middle-class in China would earn somewhere between $10,000 and $60,000 a year, according to Helen Wang, author of The Chinese Dream: The Rise of the World's Largest Middle Class and What It Means to You.
 

nimo_cn

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It is also a cultural thing for many Indians cell phones are much much bigger priority
than buying a computer.
There is a lot of thing that a PC can do but a mobile phone can't.

Unless you don't have the extra money, no one would deny a PC. Simply put it, it is not a priority issue, but a money issue.
 

nimo_cn

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I think that computer literacy is a bigger issue than internet affordability - middle class people probably can afford a computer and internet, but if they don't know how to use it, it's a waste of money.
So your middle-class aren't even educated enough to know how to use a computer? One third of them?

How hard it is to learn basic computer skills?
 
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QUOTE=nimo_cn;560193]There is a lot of thing that a PC can do but a mobile phone can't.

Unless you don't have the extra money, no one would deny a PC. Simply put it, it is not a priority issue, but a money issue.[/QUOTE]

Many Indians view the PC as work or a job related machine, something they don't want to
be reminded of at home. Look at GDP-PPP rankings Indians can afford Pc's but they avoid them.
In 2012 ranking neither or India or China are at a spot where the average person can afford
a car priced at low end in most countries (12,000)

[
 
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Armand2REP

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Looking at PPP GDP doesn't translate into buying a PC since it is a multinational product.
 

J20!

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Chinese economy is Bigger than Indian economy,again the wealth distribution of the middle
class is below India. Chinese have been faking all their numbers about the economy for years
why would i believe this? I refuse to believe a chinese midldle class person makes more than
some one in the middle class in USA. 60,000 was the number I believe he gave, Real numbers below.
From his link

China's middle-class boom - Jun. 26, 2012


, with most of the wealthier residents residing in the cities. In rural areas, the average disposable income drops to $1,000, but in China's largest cities like Shanghai, Beijing and Shenzhen, it's around $12,000 a year, per person.


if 1,000$ is counted as middle class in China then 800 million+ Indians can be counted as middle class
Hahaha! It says the average income for a rural resident is $1000, not that $1000 counts as middle income. And that city dwellers average $3000 a year disposable income. You're quite the economist.. I'm soooooooooooooooooo impressed *sarcasm*.

Middle income counts as earning from $10000 to $60000 a year, There are more people earning that much in China per year that the entire population of the USA, making China home to the world's largest middle class society, more than double India's figure...

What's so surprising about that, considering that China's per capita GDP is more than double that of India's and our economy is 4 times larger than yours?

You're actually contradicting your own article. So you're admitting you were wrong about India having a larger middle class than China?
 

J20!

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The whole article:

China's middle-class boom

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- As China's economy has exploded over the last 30 years, so too have the incomes and living standards of average Chinese people.
The average disposable income of urban Chinese households rose to around $3,000 per capita in 2010, according to an analysis of official government statistics by China Market Research Group. That means a typical family of three earns around $9,000 a year.

While that might not sound like a lot by U.S. standards, it's a boon for Chinese residents, who have seen their yearly earnings multiply tenfold since 1980.
Over the past 10 years alone, incomes have quadrupled. In 2000, the average income was just $760 per person.
Of course, incomes vary greatly from region to region, with most of the wealthier residents residing in the cities. In rural areas, the average disposable income drops to $1,000, but in China's largest cities like Shanghai, Beijing and Shenzhen, it's around $12,000 a year, per person.
Meet China's 'middle class'

While there's no official "middle-class" in China, (Chinese people don't use the concept), a household considered to be middle-class in China would earn somewhere between $10,000 and $60,000 a year, according to Helen Wang, author of The Chinese Dream: The Rise of the World's Largest Middle Class and What It Means to You.
"A rule of thumb is a household with a third of its income for discretionary spending is considered middle class," Wang said.
Being middle-class in China often means earning at or below what's considered the poverty line in America. But considering the much lower cost of Chinese life, living standards there aren't bad at all.
The average city resident can afford to rent a 700-square-foot apartment, spend 35% of their income on food, and still put 20% aside in savings, as is customary in China, estimates James Roy, senior analyst at China Market Research.
Meanwhile, few use credit cards, and most are unlikely to own a car, opting for public transportation instead. The typical cell phone bill is around only $10 a month (or about $20 for an iPhone).
U.S. companies betting big in China
Eating out once or twice a week is not uncommon, sometimes including American fast food chains like KFC or Pizza Hut which have expanded aggressively in China. The average consumer can also afford to be brand-conscious on occasion.
"In most cases the wife, who typically has a full-time job, makes most household purchasing decisions and is willing to trade up to buy foreign brands from companies like Procter & Gamble and Unilever for products like shampoo," Roy said.

For above-average earners, luxury brands are also within reach. China has already overtaken Japan as the second largest luxury goods consumer after the United States, according to analysts at Bain & Company.
Chen Zhi-Heng earns about $36,000 a year working as a doctor in Changsha, a city in south-central China. Even though she earns far above average, she doesn't consider herself well-off enough to be middle class.
With roughly $800 free each month to spend on discretionary items, she owns a $4,700 Gucci watch, a $1,600 Burberry coat and a $320 Hermes silk scarf.
"Buying Louis Vuitton, Apple or other cool stuff is important for many Chinese, showing off that they're modern, sophisticated and have status," said Wang.
China: World's largest supplier of educated workers
Plus, Wang points out that in reality, Chinese incomes are probably much higher than the government reports.
That's partly because households often underreport their income, fearing the government will pass on the information to tax collectors.
The official government figures also don't include rampant under-the-table payments, large cash gifts around Chinese New Year, bribes or land deals. Professor Wang Xiaolu of the China Reform Foundation, in a report for Credit Suisse, estimated in 2008 that the average income was actually 90% higher than the government reported.
"Somehow people always seem to have a lot of cash, even though official data shows income at about $3,000 per capita," said Wang. "There's a lot of grey income in China."
 

Ray

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How many are there in the family that constitute the income to be classified as middle class?
 

Armand2REP

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When I lived in GZ, average office workers were making 3600 RMB a month. This was in Tianhe, one of the most affluent areas in a tier 1 city. Yeah, there were people that made more but you can't translate urban workers as being middle class. A large portion are migrant workers that make half that. With the cost of living so high I had to spend 10000 RMB just to live what I consider a lower middle class lifestyle. I could have spent the other 10000 to live upper middle class but I put that in the bank. My 20000 a month was pay for expert foreigner, few Chinese made that.
 

J20!

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When I lived in GZ, average office workers were making 3600 RMB a month. This was in Tianhe, one of the most affluent areas in a tier 1 city. Yeah, there were people that made more but you can't translate urban workers as being middle class. A large portion are migrant workers that make half that. With the cost of living so high I had to spend 10000 RMB just to live what I consider a lower middle class lifestyle. I could have spent the other 10000 to live upper middle class but I put that in the bank. My 20000 a month was pay for expert foreigner, few Chinese made that.
Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.... And you've also impregnated half of China's female population too right?

Stop pretending Jamal, or Raj or Ranjeet or whatever your real name is. Forsaking your own country to impersonate another nationality smacks of desperation don't you think?

If you were really French, you wouldn't slip up so many times, posting in Hindi or calling Chinese people "our neighbours", or claiming to have moved whenever someone in "your area" wants to confirm your stories.You claim to live here but you didn't even know what white license plates mean in China.

Stop with the charade, no one believes you anymore. Why should we believe a shady poster over actual qualified experts and authors? Show me a link that disputes the findings of people like James Roy and Helen Wang, not some folk tale about you living in China.
 
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Ray

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Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.... And you've also impregnated half of China's female population too right?

Stop pretending Jamal, or Raj or Ranjeet or whatever your real name is. Forsaking your own country to impersonate another nationality smacks of desperation don't you think?

If you were really French, you wouldn't slip up so many times, posting in Hindi or calling Chinese people "the neighbours", or claiming to have moved whenever someone in "your area" wants to confirm your stories.You didn't even know white white license plates mean in China. Stop with the charade, no one believes you anymore.
The amount he knows about China, it could be that he is a KMT chap and his name is Chiang Kai Shek!

Or even Sun Yat Sen!

He was quite nasty with the British on the Olympics!

Funny!
 

J20!

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How many are there in the family that constitute the income to be classified as middle class?
One Child policy = Average of 3 per household.

The average disposable income of urban Chinese households rose to around $3,000 per capita in 2010, according to an analysis of official government statistics by China Market Research Group. That means a typical family of three earns around $9,000 a year.
 

J20!

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The amount he knows about China, it could be that he is a KMT chap and his name is Chiang Kai Shek!

Or even Sun Yat Sen!

He was quite nasty with the British on the Olympics!

Funny!
The fact that he didn't even know what white license plates mean in China shows you that what he knows, is what he's found on the net.

And if you were as big a defense nut as I am, you'd know that most of what he posts on Chinese defense tech is rubbish. eg. He still swears that the WS10A is an AL31 copy despite it being built around an AMERICAN CORE and doesn't even give proof.

Some "Chini expert" you've got there Ray.
 
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Armand2REP

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50 cent can't get enough lies... :lol: Please point to where I ever "slipped up" where anyone could infer I am Indian or where I didn't know what a white license plate is... because I said it was military a few times already. What have you got.... nothing! :rofl:
 

Ray

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The fact that he didn't even know what white license plates mean in China shows you that what he knows, is what he's found on the net.

And if you were as big a defense nut as I am, you'd know that most of what he posts on Chinese defense tech is rubbish. eg. He still swears that the WS10A is an AL31 copy despite it being built around an AMERICAN CORE and doesn't even give proof.

Some "Chini expert" you've got there Ray.
Well I knew what white licence plates mean since you raised that issue.

But I think those who are scared are the ones who would find out such stuff.

If you are an honest chap, would you try to find out about 're-education' terms of China?

I am not a 'defence nut' as you.

Defence was my bread and butter!
 

Armand2REP

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They are just mad that I tear down the facade known as PRC. I will continue until all is revealed! :kickass:
 

Known_Unknown

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The countries with the lowest GINI scores are the rich West and North European countries.

Regardless of India's low per capita income, a low GINI score is always good since it means less socioeconomic friction due by wealth disparities. Countries like China with high wealth disparities might have a revolution on their hands if they're not careful (ironic isn't it?).
Checked the US' GINI? It's 41, around the same as China's. Russia's is around the same too. I don't see a revolution happening anywhere here.

A cynic might say that income inequality is actually a good thing...it gives the masses something to aspire to. You're right that Scandanavian countries have a low GINI, but guess what, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Ethiopia et al also have a lower GINI score than India.

India falls in the latter category more than in the former.
 

Known_Unknown

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Yes, I have heard of mobile internet, but it doesn't weaken my point.

Desktop internet usage is still one of the primary form of internet usage.

The fact that India has more mobile internet substribers once again proves my point that many Indians simply can't afford fix-line internet connection, because mobile internet usage is cheaper.

How about making this simple, you tell me another country where the middle-class can't even afford a computer?
That's a nonsensical way to gauge the size of a middle class. The term "middle class" is defined by the income earned, not by how many desktops or cars the family has. For example, just because Americans may have one of the largest per capita car ownership rates doesn't make their middle class any more affluent than other countries' middle classes. It just means that Americans have to spend more on private transport as a result of their sub-par or non-existent public transport systems. In fact it also means that Americans have less disposable income than their counterparts in other countries (This is borne out by the massive personal indebtedness of most Americans).

Similarly, defining the "middle class" according to patterns of consumption of durable white goods like computers is a fallacy since it does not take into account cultural differences of saving vs spending that exists between countries. It does not take into account the physical infrastructure, social conditions and hundreds of other variables that people consider when deciding to make a purchase or not.

Coming back to your example of computers, most Indian "middle class" people simply don't need to have a computer at home because there are internet cafes a dime a dozen at every street corner. Why spend $500-$1k on a computer and an internet connection (which will be a monthly expense), when you can access the internet for 50 cents/hour at the nearest cybercafe? Indians believe in saving far more than spending.
 

civfanatic

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Checked the US' GINI? It's 41, around the same as China's. Russia's is around the same too. I don't see a revolution happening anywhere here.
Nah, I can definitely see some major protest/civil unrest in the U.S. in the near future. Especially in the big cities where the differences between rich and poor are especially stark. Income inequality in the U.S. is the greatest that it has ever been in its history and the gap is widening at an astounding rate. Russia and China, being authoritarian countries, will try to clamp down on the dissent but they can't destroy it. Sooner or later we will see a repeat of both 1917 and 1949, unless either country makes some major reforms.


A cynic might say that income inequality is actually a good thing...it gives the masses something to aspire to. You're right that Scandanavian countries have a low GINI, but guess what, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Ethiopia et al also have a lower GINI score than India.

India falls in the latter category more than in the former.
And those countries will never witness the type of socioeconomic friction and class warfare that highly unequal countries face. Of course, that by itself doesn't mean the country is great, since many countries in this category instead face tribal, ethnic, religious, and various other types of social conflict.
 

RedDragon

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$10k per houshold means the husband, wife and other family members have to get to $10K. That isn't middle class. The actual number of individuals making $10k or more is only in the tens of millions.
$10K per year, in IT industrial, in BeiJing, a programmer with several years experience can earn that. That is not very difficult.
 

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