China loses crown in low-cost manufacturing to India, Mexico

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China has been trying to copy Taiwan and break into the semiconductor industry, even after stealing a lot of technology from everywhere i still don't see any mainland chinese semiconductor companies.
 

badguy2000

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China has been trying to copy Taiwan and break into the semiconductor industry, even after stealing a lot of technology from everywhere i still don't see any mainland chinese semiconductor companies.
that is just because you has not opened the box-cover of your personal computers.:2guns:

CHina now is the third biggest semicomdutor manufacturer only behind Japan and Taiwan.

But most semicondutor made in china are "OEM"
 
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provide a link not with taiwan companies Chinese companies name 1 chinese company
 

badguy2000

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provide a link not with taiwan companies Chinese companies name 1 chinese company
I think it is not hard for you to google " chinese semiconductor".:((


here is the website of "SMIC",which is the 3 biggest IC manufacturer in the world.

: : SMIC : : HOME


BTW, the "taiwan comanpies" you called usually have more plants in Mainland CHina than in Taiwan.:2guns:
 

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Of course, I have read all this earlier. The point is that huge developing countries like India and China can't just be at the lower end or the higher end of the spectrum. We have to be at all the places at the same time. We have to be at the higher end to give the best of our people the meaningful employment and at the lower end for the rest of the people who just don't have the skills to be employed at the higher end.
That will never happen. Even in the US, you still have ditch diggers ... who are paid substantially more than a ditch digger in India but they are still ditch diggers.

It is a pyramid out there. The numbers at the lower end are always going to be more at the bottom. With 20% or more of the world population, they can't all be at the higher end. No way!

There is just not enough space out there.
But they are not all higher end. All this piece said was that China no longer is the king of low cost manufacturing. Low cost labout and products will always be around within any country. There has to be a shift if the country is to move to the higher end products.
 
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officer with the recent sellout of the US auto industry by Obama to China, even the once prized Union manufacturing jobs will be gone .
 

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You're talking about Obama's recent handling of the Auto crisis. GM US is seeking protection, not GM worldwide. GM US's problem is the hire-to-grave pension plan (you currently have 4 pensioners for every one worker). What Obama is proposing is for the union to own at least 40% of GM ... and to keep the hire-to-grave pension.

Obviously, this model is not going to work. GM wisely is moving off shore where they're no longer bound by the hire-to-grave pension.

However, please keep what Obama is doing away from GM's corporate decisions. They're not exactly the same.
 
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Government is calling the shots as they are lending the money to GM, same with Chyrsyler where they are being forced to merge with Fiat, the government here is going to wind up owning a lot of the banks and auto industry, the government ownership model is already a proven failure in the airline sector. Well this is the begin of union busting in USA to try to stay competitive and it is coming 3 decades too late.
 

badguy2000

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well, China has been expected to fall by western medias for decades always.....

china's ruling postion in manufacturing is decided not only by "lost cost" but also by other factors.

for example:
1. the discipline of labours. CHinese labour is much more disciplined than India labours.
.
here is a link.which says that Indian companies would rather hire Chinese worker than India lazy local workers ,although chinese worker are more expensive
"4 injured in Chinese-locals clash in India "
4 injured in Chinese-locals clash in India


2. enormorus and ready industry chain.
if you set up a PC plant in Chinese Pearl Delta, you can buy all compenents of your product in one city or even one town. this can save a lot of cost.

But if you set the same plant in India, a lot of component has to be imported from China ,because India can not produce such components.


3.communication cost.
Chinese infrastructure is much more effeicent than India and other developing coutry, the communication cost is also much lower.
 

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To be factful, China ALREADY has a larger IT industry than India. The reason why India is often associated with IT over China is because it's IT industry represents a larger GDP percentage share.

China
agriculture: 10.6%
industry: 49.2%
services: 40.2% (2008 est.)

Out of $7.8 trillion

India
agriculture: 17.2%
industry: 29.1%
services: 53.7% (2008 est.)

Out of $3.267 trillion (2008 est.)

Source: CIA world factbook

Mate, beat India in the IT field.
If your answer is yes China can beat India in the IT field, then be rest assured that in the coming years India will give China a run for its money in the manufacturing sector.
 

thakur_ritesh

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Badguy,

indian labor unions are not the most violent of all, let me just assure they are way more disciplined than their counter parts in the west. yes, the ones supported by your communist brothers always find ways to delay projects but that is another story since they are mostly involved in government led projects and not as much in private companies but then no denying that these commie led unions have led to delay in starting of projects at a decent number of projects. more than these unions it is the reforms of labor laws that needs to be pushed aggressively and with the new govt without the commie support the much awaited reforms will take place and here is where there will be a big push for the manufacturing sector.


you are right when you say that there is presence of huge chain of industrial chain in the prc, but the difference is else where than where you have pointed out. in prc the presence is at regional level but the same cant be said for india since if something is available in north india then something else is available in some other part of india, unlike prc where these chains are spread across the country.


we have our issues with infrastructure, and i can recall our various discussions on the subject “n” number of times. this is one area that takes time and we are taking time but none the less the focus is very much there. take the basics like power, roads, rail network, cold storage, etc and all are being worked on and dramatic results will be there to be seen in another 5-6years from now. initially the focus was to build good infra between the four metros of the country, something that has been achieved partially but now that focus is shifting to state capitals and industrial areas so you can see the change that has happened and the change that is going to happen.


you miss out on a very important point, when prc started presenting it self as an alternative to the germany's of the world as an export/manufacturing hub then prc would have faced similar problems but the real catch then was that prc other than the huge consumer market presented it self as a very cheap labor, raw material, and transportation option which directly effects any businesses bottom lines which at the end of the day is the most important thing or why was the need for people to move from west to prc. as the things stand as of date, india and prc are not directly competing each other, there are certain areas where we are but in most we are not but as we start competing be rest assured a very meager thing like the cost of labor will also get calculated. basics of running a business do not change. as i see things, prc will move to high end product line which is happening and will for sure lose out on low end product line a space created will be filled up by india and india would not like to miss it out on the high end product line but then for that india would need to present it self as an high end destination where in stuff like the industrial chain you mentioned or the infrastructure will play a major role but even here there will be certain fields where we will present clear advantages. mind you my friend badguy, some 5 years back india used to export products worth only 40-45b usd and today the figure stands at around 170b usd, that does tell its own story and had there been no recessions we were very confident to achieve the figure of 200b usd which has been kept a target for this fiscal, reflect back and you will find that in the first half of last fiscal and you will realise the figure achieved was around 96b usd.
 

Rage

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To be factful, China ALREADY has a larger IT industry than India. The reason why India is often associated with IT over China is because it's IT industry represents a larger GDP percentage share.

China
agriculture: 10.6%
industry: 49.2%
services: 40.2% (2008 est.)

Out of $7.8 trillion

India
agriculture: 17.2%
industry: 29.1%
services: 53.7% (2008 est.)

Out of $3.267 trillion (2008 est.)

Source: CIA world factbook
Koji,

Let me assure you that already, with the five posts you've made thus far, I and several others on this board have begun to speculate about your true ethnicity and origins. They are reflective of an incommensurate sympathizing with China, as if you were trying to mollify or commiserate with them - even to the point of bandying about falsities -- a little unusual for a Jap considering they are your most strategic historical arch-rival. If you are an ethnic Chinese residing or studying in Japan, you ought to come clean with that in your introductory post, the purpose of which is to guage 'where you're coming from': in other words, your ideological origins. If illusiveness is the name of the game you're playing, then let me assure you that we are far better at that if we need be. Consider yourself under close scrutiny.

Your cavalier allegation of China having a "bigger IT industry than India" is a farce. Even more risible are the figures you use to justify that claim. You do realize that the term 'services' includes all deliverable, functionally and technically engenderable, variable, inseparable, comissionable apropos of the needs of consumers, individually or collectively renderable, and simultaneously consumable activities of an intangible nature arising from interminable human needs or wants in what is described as the 'tertiary' sector of the economy, of which the IT industry is merely one.

If in your years as a Japanese University student, you have not come across the use of the term, the term 'services' incorporates several diametrically opposed non-material counterpieces of physical goods- including hotel waiters, janitors, lawyers, coroners and crooners alike. From that rudimentary stat-posting of yours of the relative proportions of 'services' in India's and China's economies, it is half-wittedly sophomoric to conclude that "China already has a bigger IT industry than India".


Now that we have cleared the chaff off your obscurantism, let us move on to more pertinent things. In the year 2004, when India's IT outsourcing industry was still in its adolescence, India's sharing of global IT outsourcing revenues was 43%, followed by Canada at 32%. China's was a paltry 5%, as the following graph indicates:




Source: InnoVest Group - ITO - China vs India


4 years hence, and by the year 2008, India's share had dropped to 37%, while the relative shares of others- Ireland in particular and Eastern Europe to a lesser extent, increased. China's share expanded marginally, while remaining under 10%. Only in 2008 did China's IT industry witness significant growth- with software exports growing 39% over the previous year to reach USD 14.2 billion and services outsourcing reaching $1.6 billion. In comparison, India's IT industry, which liberalized at a much earlier stage, witnessed average annual growth rates of 37% over the last 4 years. This infact was considered one of our lower growth rates- attributable to two things: the Mumbai attacks which caused investors to shy away from visits to the country temporally; and the cost of spiralling wages due to the immediate, requisite (skilled) supply-demand chasm- a fact which is being consistently remedied by the massive expansion of Universities and technical schools in both the private and public sector. Already however, major Indian IT cos. have bagged several new contracts and announcements of major expansions into the Indian IT sector have been made.


To put this into further perspective, the NASSCOM-Mckinsey Report [ a joint annual detailed survey of the health and future prospects of the Indian IT industry by NASSCOM, the suprastructural organization-cum-consortium that serves as an interface to the Indian software and BPO industry, and McKinsey, the management consulting firm advising companies on issues of strategy, organization, technology and operations ] projected Indian IT revenues for 2008 under the following breakdown: IT services: $38.5 billion, Software products: $19.5 bln, IT-enabled services: $19 bln, and E-services: $10 bln - to arrive at a cumulative figure of $87 bln. Exports of IT goods and services were valued at over $50 bln. A summary of the Report is attached here:

Indian Information Technology Industry


China has several limitations when it comes to the IT industry that will require decades to overcome: to begin with, although China has a large pool of IT talent, few IT workers are good at foreign languages, and thus few can communicate easily with foreign customers; secondly, China also has few inter-disciplinary talents who are skilled not only in technical issues, but also in business process, management and interpersonal communication: Chinese companies are engaged mainly in coding, whereas their Indian counterparts can provide comprehensive solutions to clients; thirdly, China has poor intellectual property protection in the IT sphere, with many Chinese companies not even aware of whether their actions constitute piracy - a consistently crucial factor in selecting an outsourcing partner; and fourthly, Chinese outsourcing companies are minuscule compared to their Indian rivals, with few even approaching annual revenues of 100 million dollars, whereas virtually every major Indian IT player- and there are several- account for annual revenues well in excess of a billion dollars.


Furthermore, a report by the business analyst firm Gartner released April 2009, indicates an expansion (it uses the word 'doubling'), despite the global slowdown and protectionist measures by western countries, of Indian BPO revenues by 2010. I attach an article to the report here. Do take the time to read it:

Indian BPOs’ revenues will be doubled by 2010: Gartner


The ongoing global economic crisis, the intermittent rise in wages and the Mumbai attacks have temporarily caused some shifting of outsourcing business from India to China, but most IT analysts are unanimous in their assertion that this trend will not last. Software clients usually pay more attention to service capabilities: including language and communication skills, intellectual property protection, and an ability to provide comprehensive, encompassing solutions- a capability that China neither has nor is likely to develop in the short run.

Willful disinformation is something we have an extreme distaste for.

Enjoy your stay on this forum.
 

SATISH

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Service sector doesn't represent only the IT industry. Why don't many people understand that? It is also tourism, real estate, hospitality, transport and a lot. even chemicals and pharma are partly in it.
 

badguy2000

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Koji,

Let me assure you that already, with the five posts you've made thus far, I and several others on this board have begun to speculate about your true ethnicity and origins. They are reflective of an incommensurate sympathizing with China, as if you were trying to mollify or commiserate with them - even to the point of bandying about falsities -- a little unusual for a Jap considering they are your most strategic historical arch-rival. If you are an ethnic Chinese residing or studying in Japan, you ought to come clean with that in your introductory post, the purpose of which is to guage 'where you're coming from': in other words, your ideological origins. If illusiveness is the name of the game you're playing, then let me assure you that we are far better at that if we need be. Consider yourself under close scrutiny.

Your cavalier allegation of China having a "bigger IT industry than India" is a farce. Even more risible are the figures you use to justify that claim. You do realize that the term 'services' includes all deliverable, functionally and technically engenderable, variable, inseparable, comissionable apropos of the needs of consumers, individually or collectively renderable, and simultaneously consumable activities of an intangible nature arising from interminable human needs or wants in what is described as the 'tertiary' sector of the economy, of which the IT industry is merely one.

If in your years as a Japanese University student, you have not come across the use of the term, the term 'services' incorporates several diametrically opposed non-material counterpieces of physical goods- including hotel waiters, janitors, lawyers, coroners and crooners alike. From that rudimentary stat-posting of yours of the relative proportions of 'services' in India's and China's economies, it is half-wittedly sophomoric to conclude that "China already has a bigger IT industry than India".


Now that we have cleared the chaff off your obscurantism, let us move on to more pertinent things. In the year 2004, when India's IT outsourcing industry was still in its adolescence, India's sharing of global IT outsourcing revenues was 43%, followed by Canada at 32%. China's was a paltry 5%, as the following graph indicates:




Source: InnoVest Group - ITO - China vs India


4 years hence, and by the year 2008, India's share had dropped to 37%, while the relative shares of others- Ireland in particular and Eastern Europe to a lesser extent, increased. China's share expanded marginally, while remaining under 10%. Only in 2008 did China's IT industry witness significant growth- with software exports growing 39% over the previous year to reach USD 14.2 billion and services outsourcing reaching $1.6 billion. In comparison, India's IT industry, which liberalized at a much earlier stage, witnessed average annual growth rates of 37% over the last 4 years. This infact was considered one of our lower growth rates- attributable to two things: the Mumbai attacks which caused investors to shy away from visits to the country temporally; and the cost of spiralling wages due to the immediate, requisite (skilled) supply-demand chasm- a fact which is being consistently remedied by the massive expansion of Universities and technical schools in both the private and public sector. Already however, major Indian IT cos. have bagged several new contracts and announcements of major expansions into the Indian IT sector have been made.


To put this into further perspective, the NASSCOM-Mckinsey Report [ a joint annual detailed survey of the health and future prospects of the Indian IT industry by NASSCOM, the suprastructural organization-cum-consortium that serves as an interface to the Indian software and BPO industry, and McKinsey, the management consulting firm advising companies on issues of strategy, organization, technology and operations ] projected Indian IT revenues for 2008 under the following breakdown: IT services: $38.5 billion, Software products: $19.5 bln, IT-enabled services: $19 bln, and E-services: $10 bln - to arrive at a cumulative figure of $87 bln. Exports of IT goods and services were valued at over $50 bln. A summary of the Report is attached here:

Indian Information Technology Industry


China has several limitations when it comes to the IT industry that will require decades to overcome: to begin with, although China has a large pool of IT talent, few IT workers are good at foreign languages, and thus few can communicate easily with foreign customers; secondly, China also has few inter-disciplinary talents who are skilled not only in technical issues, but also in business process, management and interpersonal communication: Chinese companies are engaged mainly in coding, whereas their Indian counterparts can provide comprehensive solutions to clients; thirdly, China has poor intellectual property protection in the IT sphere, with many Chinese companies not even aware of whether their actions constitute piracy - a consistently crucial factor in selecting an outsourcing partner; and fourthly, Chinese outsourcing companies are minuscule compared to their Indian rivals, with few even approaching annual revenues of 100 million dollars, whereas virtually every major Indian IT player- and there are several- account for annual revenues well in excess of a billion dollars.


Furthermore, a report by the business analyst firm Gartner released April 2009, indicates an expansion (it uses the word 'doubling'), despite the global slowdown and protectionist measures by western countries, of Indian BPO revenues by 2010. I attach an article to the report here. Do take the time to read it:

Indian BPOs’ revenues will be doubled by 2010: Gartner


The ongoing global economic crisis, the intermittent rise in wages and the Mumbai attacks have temporarily caused some shifting of outsourcing business from India to China, but most IT analysts are unanimous in their assertion that this trend will not last. Software clients usually pay more attention to service capabilities: including language and communication skills, intellectual property protection, and an ability to provide comprehensive, encompassing solutions- a capability that China neither has nor is likely to develop in the short run.

Willful disinformation is something we have an extreme distaste for.

Enjoy your stay on this forum.
if measued by nominal GDP, CHina's GDP is about 4 time more than India's. now(2008, CHina'4.3 trillion while India1.1 trillion)

although IT has less shares on China's GDP than India's, the absolute scale of CHina's IT is much more than that of India's IT

but why is India's IT more impressing than CHina's IT?

1. India's IT are exported much more than CHina's .
China's softwares are rarely exported . So India's IT get more attentions than China's in western world.

2. China's IT still has not famous brand and is full of small enterprises.

In fact, the absolute scale of CHina's IT surpassed that of India 4-5 years ago.. of course, IT here means "softwares".....nobody is so crazy to believe that India's hardware is bigger than CHina's.
 

Rage

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if measued by nominal GDP, CHina's GDP is about 4 time more than India's. now(2008, CHina'4.3 trillion while India1.1 trillion)

although IT has less shares on China's GDP than India's, the absolute scale of CHina's IT is much more than that of India's IT
It is not. A simple mathematical calculation will suffice - or alternatively, recourse to statistical facts. Again, "services" do not only encompass the IT sector.
 

badguy2000

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