BrahMos Cruise Missile

[Defcon 1]

What submarines do we have where this missile can be fitted? I do know that it cannot be fitted on our kilo class or scorpene subs.

 

[Payeng]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

Would be innovative cool.

 

[sayareakd]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

it is appears to be small HSTDV............. which is re usable bomber of DRDO in future.

 

[A chauhan]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

It means that they didn't aim the hypersonic speed alone, but multitargetting and reusability too, thats great!!

Saya in that way the same Brahmos can hit different targets at a deadly speed in minimal time :bounce:

 

[A chauhan]

Perhaps the journalist has misunderstood the re-usability of Brahmos-2, APJ Kalam had suggested (Kalam suggests reusable BrahMos) BrahMos corp. to make it reusable, but just after completing BrahMos-1 and a year after Kalam's suggestion, it is highly impossible to develop BrahMos-2 a "Hypersonic and Re-usable" version or convert it into a reusable version in just 5 years.

If it comes back from the stated 290km range after delivering the warhead or the self-manoeuvring and self-guiding warhead, it will have to travel 580kms for that, it will need a complete design change for that with increased weight to carry extra fuel, and what will happen to MTCR then ?

I don't think that BrahMos-2 has anything to do with the re-usability it will be only a hypersonic cruise missile

 

[Predator]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

I don't understand the sense behind it. The current order book for Brahmos is huge and it will increase even further as newer naval ships are inducted. Also our rate of missile production is very slow (1 regiment in two years). It will take about 5 years to complete the orders of this missile and as soon as the orders are complete, it will become obsolete as Brahmos 2 will be introduced.

What a nice way to screw it up.

haathi ke daant khane ke aur, dikhane ke aur

rate of production of critical national defence equipment will always remain a mystery to the civilian observer, only the top sarkari babus or spies will know the real numbers

even figures of trivial items like small arms production are fudged or responsibility to manufacture transfered to another govt arm to hide the real figures

most people think only OFB manufactures small arms but i know atleast one govt agency outside of OFB which also manufactures them

 

[Armand2REP]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

it can also be used for underwater missions aimed at submarine targets, giving the country an extra edge in this class of missile, he noted.

Is it supposed to carry a torpedo?

 

[p2prada]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

I don't understand the sense behind it. The current order book for Brahmos is huge and it will increase even further as newer naval ships are inducted. Also our rate of missile production is very slow (1 regiment in two years). It will take about 5 years to complete the orders of this missile and as soon as the orders are complete, it will become obsolete as Brahmos 2 will be introduced.

What a nice way to screw it up.

Brahmos 1 won't be obsolete for decades. Heck the British are planning on a supersonic cruise missile by 2040.

People crib and complain about Brahmos and don't even realize that the Americans, British, French and Germans still use the subsonic sub-150Km Harpoons, Sea Eagles and Exocets even to this day.

The Russians are miles ahead in AShMs and with Brahmos we have beaten even the old record. Why do you think the Americans were keen on turning off GPS during Brahmos test flights?

Western powers are yet to even touch Brahmos's capability let alone surpass it.

The only drawback on our ships is the lack of a long range cruise missile. Current needs were supposed to be accomplished with the Dhanush ballistic missiles fired from ships, but liquid fuel posed problems apart from not being long range. Perhaps a Shourya variant will replace it in the future for use on ships. Nirbhay will also help add capability. Other than that the anti-air capability on new destroyers and frigates will be first class apart from anti-ship and anti-submarine capabilities.

 

[p2prada]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

If it comes back from the stated 290km range after delivering the warhead or the self-manoeuvring and self-guiding warhead, it will have to travel 580kms for that, it will need a complete design change for that with increased weight to carry extra fuel, and what will happen to MTCR then ?

This reusable missile will have to be developed outside of the JV, on our own. I am pretty sure a hypersonic reusable missile will return home at subsonic speeds. It is not necessary for the missile to go back to the ship that fired it, rather a support ship can pick up the pieces elsewhere at a much greater distance.

I don't think that BrahMos-2 has anything to do with the re-usability it will be only a hypersonic cruise missile

Yes. Brahmos II will be a hypersonic cruise missile. It won't be reusable and neither will the target.

Would be innovative cool.

Reusable cruise missiles have existed as a concept since long. I think we are the only ones to talk about hypersonic cruise missiles.

The closest to us in the west is MBDA. One is the ASMP/ASMP-A which is not an AShM. Another is a new supersonic cruise missile to be developed by MBDA called Perseus is also a Brahmos class missile with some new propulsion system based on RAMJET. It will be a 3000Km/hr missile upto ranges of 300Km to be ready by 2030, not 2040.

South Korea has plans for a greater than Mach 1 missile called Haeseong 2, but it is not an AShM.

 

[Apollyon]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

Brahmos-2 will have Scramjet, if it had to be reusable have to turn back at hypersonic speed to return to it's base ... but is it possible to turn 360 degree at Mach 6-7 or say it slows down to turn.

The minimum Mach number at which a scramjet can operate is limited by the fact that the compressed flow must be hot enough to burn the fuel, and have pressure high enough that the reaction be finished before the air moves out the back of the engine. Additionally, in order to be called a scramjet, the compressed flow must still be supersonic after combustion. Here two limits must be observed: Firstly, since when a supersonic flow is compressed it slows down, the level of compression must be low enough (or the initial speed high enough) not to slow the gas below Mach 1. If the gas within a scramjet goes below Mach 1 the engine will "choke", transitioning to subsonic flow in the combustion chamber.

But re-usability of such a missile will be dependent on the distance of it's target. The max proposed range of HSTDV is 700Km, so if the target is say at 300Km it can easily hit the target and come back.

 

[p2prada]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

Brahmos-2 will have Scramjet, if it had to be reusable have to turn back at hypersonic speed to return to it's base ... but is it possible to turn 360 degree at Mach 6-7 or say it slows down to turn.

You mean 180[SUP]o[/SUP]. At 360[SUP]o[/SUP] the missile will turn back to where it started.

The missile does not have to turn then and there. It simply has to turn at a large angle at those speeds.

A solid state motor or more preferably a turbofan can be used for the return journey.

 

[Armand2REP]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

Who is saying it will be reusable?

 

[trackwhack]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

Brahmos 1 won't be obsolete for decades. Heck the British are planning on a supersonic cruise missile by 2040.

People crib and complain about Brahmos and don't even realize that the Americans, British, French and Germans still use the subsonic sub-150Km Harpoons, Sea Eagles and Exocets even to this day.

The Russians are miles ahead in AShMs and with Brahmos we have beaten even the old record. Why do you think the Americans were keen on turning off GPS during Brahmos test flights?

Western powers are yet to even touch Brahmos's capability let alone surpass it.

The only drawback on our ships is the lack of a long range cruise missile. Current needs were supposed to be accomplished with the Dhanush ballistic missiles fired from ships, but liquid fuel posed problems apart from not being long range. Perhaps a Shourya variant will replace it in the future for use on ships. Nirbhay will also help add capability. Other than that the anti-air capability on new destroyers and frigates will be first class apart from anti-ship and anti-submarine capabilities.

You are right but the missiles have a shelf life of 10 years and if Bramhos 2 is under serial production by then, I doubt it if the Army will replace Bramhos1 with another batch of the same. It would make more sense to switch over to Bramhos 2 completely. However the Navy will continue to replace it for the Talwar class and Kolkata class as I dont think the naval launch systems for Bramhos 1 and 2 are going to be identical and a VLS refit for the ships may not make sense.

 

[Apollyon]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

You mean 180[SUP]o[/SUP]. At 360[SUP]o[/SUP] the missile will turn back to where it started.

Who is saying it will be reusable?

OP :

India hopes to have its next higher level multi-target missile, the "Hypersonic Reusable Cruise Missile", called "Brahmos II", in the next five years, distinguished missile scientist and Defence Research

seem like a bullshit news, no credibility ... :shocked:

 

[p2prada]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

Who is saying it will be reusable?

DRDO's chief controller for R&D, S Pillai.

 

[p2prada]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

You are right but the missiles have a shelf life of 10 years and if Bramhos 2 is under serial production by then, I doubt it if the Army will replace Bramhos1 with another batch of the same. It would make more sense to switch over to Bramhos 2 completely.

Of course. I am not saying they won't be replaced with something better, just that they won't be obsolete. After all, there are many countries waiting for exports and only Brahmos I will be exported.

However the Navy will continue to replace it for the Talwar class and Kolkata class as I dont think the naval launch systems for Bramhos 1 and 2 are going to be identical and a VLS refit for the ships may not make sense.

I wouldn't be so quick to judge. What if it is not the case? What if IN may be ready to modify the VLS to cater to Brahmos II? The launchers have been replaced many times from ships. All the Rajputs had their old launchers replaced to fire Brahmos. Some inclined and some VLS.

seem like a bullshit news, no credibility ... :shocked:

Maybe, but the source seems to be Deccan Herald.

 

[Armand2REP]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

seem like a bullshit news, no credibility ... :shocked:

Reusable hypseronic missile with ASW capability... it does seem far fetched.

 

[p2prada]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

Reusable hypseronic missile with ASW capability... it does seem far fetched.

Why not? It can be something like a UCAV. Travel at hypersonic speeds, release payload, assess the damage and return to base.

The payload can be anything, Anti-Submarine, Anti-Ship, Anti-structure etc. Maybe even anti-personnel like thermobaric or with cluster munitions to hit tanks and other vehicles or make runways unusable.

These already exist, except for a hypersonic launch vehicle.

Maybe they are talking about a reusable hypersonic vehicle by 2017.

 

[Bhadra]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

it is appears to be small HSTDV............. which is re usable bomber of DRDO in future.

DODOs are satisfactory in missile arena though much more was expected and longed for ....

 

[Bhadra]

Re: India to have hypersonic Brahmos II in five years Source

Why not? It can be something like a UCAV. Travel at hypersonic speeds, release payload, assess the damage and return to base.

The payload can be anything, Anti-Submarine, Anti-Ship, Anti-structure etc. Maybe even anti-personnel like thermobaric or with cluster munitions to hit tanks and other vehicles or make runways unusable.

These already exist, except for a hypersonic launch vehicle.

Maybe they are talking about a reusable hypersonic vehicle by 2017.

yes, you are right. In that case Brahmos has to be a vehicle which delivers and falls back. Has gaot to be expensive venture. For military puposes the cost has to be economical.

Remember, "Economy of Efforts" is the fundamental principles of war. It can not be directed by a mad scientist who is not capable of inferring that.