Bharat Rakshak "¢ View topic - LCA News and Discussions
The TWR ratio of 1985 was for a low tech LCA with none of the current advanced systems on board and was not capable of firing even R-73 ,
So there is no point in comparing it with the present capacities of tejas mk-1 whose wings were strengthened to carry R-73 , and the to be introduced Astra missiles along with a extra weight capacity pylon for carrying a 2 meter long heavy Elta EW pod, a refueling probe along with full EW suit a first for any Indian fighter at introduction and say only mk-2 will satisfy the 1985 ASR,
In the same page it is clearly mentioned that mk-1 is good enough for IAF and since Navy expressed the desire for higher powered engine IAF also upped it's demand,
LCA mk-1 can itself exceed many close combat specs of mirage-2000 in indian conditions was also stated by former NTSE chief Riaz Khokar.
Also it is clearly stated that most of the fuel increase is going to come mostly from the increase in dia of the all fuselage fuel tanks and larger space freed up in the wing will also lead to increased to fuel capacity not just from 0.5 meter plug in.
LCA is already flying with a extra ballast weight of 200 KG according to former NTSE chief Riaz Khokar,
Also the claimed 6400 KG weight in Aero india 2011 was before the roll out of LSP-7 and 8 which includes close to 400 Kg testing equipment weight.
Besides those 400 Kg testing equipment weight some weight reduction was also carried out on LSP-8 by eliminating few LRUs by combining their functions with other LRUs and we don't know how much of CEMILAC recommendations for close to 1 ton weight reduction was carried out in LSP-8.
SO we will get a clear pic once we know the empty weight of SP versions,
Also talking about manufacturer's Mig-29 STR and Mirage-2000 ITR along with their range figures is pointless.
In Indian hot and dry climatic conditions most of the top figures of those fighters from their makers are not achievable as those fighters and their engines were never tuned to give thier best in Indian conditions, this was clearly stated by none other than Cmde Jaydeep Maolankar,
Mao Sir scoffed at the suggestion that the engine was choking at higher alpha. He said there is no such thing, but rather because it was designed initially for the Kaveri's airflow and had to redesign it for the F-404. They have already tried various intakes on the LCA, with/without spring mounted doors on the intakes.
- When asked about the STR and ITR rates of the Tejas, he simply smiled and said "it's enough, let me put it that way". When I queried him further, asking about the ASR that the IAF had set based on the Mirage-2000 and MiG-29's STR and ITR, his smile vanished and he got serious.
He said that when people look at 10 different brochures and come up with requirements, without looking at whether meeting all those requirements is even possible for ANY one fighter, they set themselves and the program up for failure.
He was very frank about this, stating that even those brochure specs were just that- brochure specs that even those famed fighters sometimes don't meet. But they were taken as benchmarks anyway and then, without even bothering to look at the technological base in India, the ASR was prepared.
- He was full of praise for the handling of the Tejas. It's a true delight to fly and both he and Grp Cpt Suneet Krishna have tremendous confidence in the aircraft itself. He said that they both push the aircraft to its current limits without any worry since the FCS is very good. He did mention that they didn't push the Tejas Mk1 to its limits at the airshow but just wanted to display that it is maneuverable enough.
Why? Mig-29 has best ITR and STR not due to advanced design , just by making it so short ranged due to two powerful fuel guzzling engines , No one makes such fighters any more. Because the fighters that excel in ITR use that in close combat to overcome their lesser STR along with high off bore WVR missiles and HMD facilities . SO range and weapon load along with reliable mission ready engines is more important than short legged fighters with two unreliable engines .
That is the reason why IAF asked MOD for 126 extra Mirage-2000s( which subsequently transformed into MMRCA tender )and not Mig-29s . It is not that they don't know the Mig-29 has more STR and ITR than the mirage-2000s
Which was clearly shown when LCA mk-1 itself exceeded the speeds of Mig-29 and Su-30 MKI at sea level in hot indian climatic conditions at skies above Goa in it's flutter test long back before weight reduction exercise and with more than 400 Kg of testing equipment on board,
Same will hold good for LCA mk-2 comparison with RAFALE,
and the link to the above page was twice posted once by me and then again by Kunal to refute the useless argument of MK1 could not even reach 1985 ASR and only mk-2 will reach it.
If some one gives a TWR in the ASR for a Mig-21 replacement with no 4th gen capacities and MTOW of just 12 tons and get a fully compliant 4th gen fighter with many EW facilities (including optical passive optical targeting and IRST according to the fact file article by B. Harry on Tejas by 2009 itself) along with refueling probe and 13.5 ton MTOW saying the goal is not reached is a faclie argument.
So brochure pasting specs from various fighters with different aerodynamic and mission profile and ranting at tejas mk-1 not meeting them all in a single platform is pointless and will lead to IAF forever remaining Imported Air force