Aryan Invasion Hypothesis

[TrueSpirit1]

I did not attack Hindu nationalists . Just because AIT is used by anti nationals( the reason they use it is because of people like A Chauhan and you who are hell incompetent to put things in right persepective , a trait shared by many Indians) does not make theory itself wrong. Ever heard of Panini? Linguistics? Go to your university library and open any book of linguistics and see where you are living.

Pratap, stop being the proverbial cry-baby of DFI & admit that you do not possess an iota of knowledge about history, literature, genetics, debate & decency.

@Mad Indian is trained-medico (in short, a DOCTOR) & @A chauhan is an experienced lawyer by profession. They know what they are talking about. And, you cannot claim to know more about history than veteran members here.

Do you know how ridiculously dumbwit you sound when try to demean a Medico during a conversation on genetics?

It is never advisable to exceed your brief without ample ammunition. This is not done.

Your credentials are that of a cry-baby, at best. Hell, you do not even know how to counter simple arguments, so you come across as linguistically & mentally-challenge individual or shall I say "differently-able" kid, euphemistically kept.

Try to LEARN, before you VOMIT (out of your persistent verbal diarrhea).

Internet anonymity does give you the privilege of hurling accusations without repercussions; something that you resort to with alarming regularity every time you run out of arguments, which is like: always).

Take a break & start posting, when you have something worth a cent.

 

[Pratap]

[

Pratap, stop being the proverbial cry-baby of DFI & admit that you do not possess an iota of knowledge about history, literature, genetics, debate & decency.

Decency and debates are quite subjective terms but I do know a lot about languages and literature and history. I am not expert on genetics , but then I take help of scholars to understand the field rather than some doctor attending to sick and wounded. I have read almost all classical texts in Indian lanaguages and chaste Hindi that I can write will be incomprehensible to person like you who can not even read the language.

Mad Indian[/MENTION] is trained-medico (in short, a DOCTOR) & @A chauhan is an experienced lawyer by profession. They know what they are talking about. And, you cannot claim to know more about history than veteran members here.

This is what I call " status syndrome" a trait we Indians have because of 700 years of foreign domination.How will doctors and lawyers have more knowledge of history ? I request you to come out of your tribal confederacy of hindu nationalists and then see that what I am saying is a world accepted theory and it is historians and linguists who have say in this, not doctors and lawyers( how stupid so we should have lawyers teaching history). If you would check my posting history, you will not find me posting on Crimea or arms and such because I do not feel i have Knowledge. I only post in araes where I happen to have some knowledge.

Do you know how ridiculously dumbwit you sound when try to demean a Medico during a conversation on genetics?

Do you know how ridiculously dumbit you and medico sound before genetic scientists who believe that R1A1a originated in pontic steppes. Ever heard of Spencer Mills? The man is genetic scientist and one of the authorities in the field. You are pitting a doctor in front of him.

Your credentials are that of a cry-baby, at best. Hell, you do not even know how to counter simple arguments, so you come across as linguistically & mentally-challenge individual or shall I say "differently-able" kid, euphemistically kept.

Try to LEARN, before you VOMIT (out of your persistent verbal diarrhea).

You try to learn Indian nationalist before you indulge in name calling.

Take a break & start posting, when you have something worth a cent

Why are you not countering anything? Your entire post is full of insults and invoking status and so I have to conclude that you are simply an Indian nationalist living in his small tribe.

 

[Pratap]

@Mad Indian @ True Spirit

Spencer Mills, Reich al, PP Majumdar are some reputed genetic scientists and all agree that there was intrusion of western Eurasian component in India in last 6 thousand years. Please write rebuttals to them and then once they have accepted your theory, come to me and I will humbly acknowledge my error. Now, do not hide and run but do that. I can only have pity for doctor posting nonsense on genetics directly contradicting genetic evidences as told by scientists.

 

[Pratap]

@A chauhan

Please do not think that when I questioned ability of lawyers and doctors, I was insulting you, I was only saying that being a lawyer does not help one to become a judge on AIT.

 

[A chauhan]

There is no scientific genetic study that says that Indians migrated to Europe some 6000 years ago so it is simple.

You still didn't tell me the specific study you rejected.

For those needing links , please follow this

Genetic affinities among the lower castes and tribal groups of India: inference from Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA

Presence of three different paternal lineages among North Indians: A study of 560 Y chromosomes

Please also read this

They are old articles mate, dating 2006, 2009 etc. I am talking about recent 2011-2012 genetic research that is why I was asking about the specific study which was nonsense in your views. New research was done by a research group of scientist of CCMB which not only had Indian but foreign scientists as well, they have concluded that there was no AI.

Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study : North, News - India Today

Aryan invasion debunked | Down To Earth

for other detailed links you can read the thread. As you can see I am only replying after 1-2 days, I am no more interested in AIT.

 

[Pratap]

You still didn't tell me the specific study you rejected.

Are dal me kala ho to na bataun, poori dal hi kali hai bhaiyya.

They are old articles mate, dating 2006, 2009 etc. I am talking about recent 2011-2012 genetic research that is why I was asking about the specific study which was nonsense in your views. New research was done by a research group of scientist of CCMB which not only had Indian but foreign scientists as well, they have concluded that there was no AI.

Their conclusion is based on flimsy knowledge of history as they have still not been successful in establishing India as origin of R1A1a and how come a brahmin of West Bengal has higher R1A1a and shares it with Pashtuns rather than his own Bengali brothers of non forward castes.

for other detailed links you can read the thread. As you can see I am only replying after 1-2 days, I am no more interested in AIT

My job here is to tell that no one accepts outside Indian nationalist circles that Sanskrit is not daughter of PIE and since languages in early bronze age can only travel if people themselves spread them, it is evident that AIT is correct.

I appreciate your politeness and sorry if exchanged some hot words( I do not remember) .

 

[Waffen SS]

Aryans came to India, we have genetic evidence on this. If Genetic similarities are found between Indians and Europeans then it may too mean Aryans one group came to India and others settled in West.

 

[PredictablyMalicious]

Aryans came to India, we have genetic evidence on this. If Genetic similarities are found between Indians and Europeans then it may too mean Aryans one group came to India and others settled in West.

Aryan Invasio Theory has been thoroughly discredited.

 

[Pratap]

Aryan Invasio Theory has been thoroughly discredited.

Not at all brother.Among whom this theory is discredited? Except some amateur historians, everyone believes this theory.

 

[Pratap]

Aryans came to India, we have genetic evidence on this. If Genetic similarities are found between Indians and Europeans then it may too mean Aryans one group came to India and others settled in West.

From west, one group came to India .Modern day Indians are all having aryan genes( all castes though with varying degree) .

 

[Pratap]

No response yet.

 

[Peter]

No response yet.

Well you can try tagging them by using@ to take note of your post.


IMO Aryans did come to India.The genetic studies do show that fact.While people say that ANI and ASI are the ancestors of Indians they don't tell us who exactly were the ANI. Surely they must have been of a different origin than ASI(of course all men descended from Africa but I am talking of more recent place of origin).As for the ANI I think they were Aryans Now whether there was an INVASION or a MIGRATION is an entirely different matter.As I have said earlier we require a time machine for that.Most of the ancient historical records of India stored in universities like Nalanda were burned down when the Muslim invasion began so we may never know the truth.

 

[Pratap]

Well you can try tagging them by using@ to take note of your post.


IMO Aryans did come to India.The genetic studies do show that fact.While people say that ANI and ASI are the ancestors of Indians they don't tell us who exactly were the ANI. Surely they must have been of a different origin than ASI(of course all men descended from Africa but I am talking of more recent place of origin).As for the ANI I think they were Aryans Now whether there was an INVASION or a MIGRATION is an entirely different matter.As I have said earlier we require a time machine for that.Most of the ancient historical records of India stored in universities like Nalanda were burned down when the Muslim invasion began so we may never know the truth.

Thanks for the response.

We need not know time machine( atleast not for knowing about aryan invasion) due to strong linguistic, archaeological and genetic evidences.
The movement of aryans took place in bronze age and it was in search of better lands so in one sense , it was a migration triggered by need for more pasture lands. However, no people like to be displaced so it is almost certainty that some violence must have been there especially in West Punjab.

The data is clear, white skinned aryans invade or migrate modern day khyber pakhtunkhwa , mix with locals, a new population is born with high western eurasian component and that population becomes the bearers of Great Indo Aryan classical civilization. I may get hate replies but I must say that modern day Jats, Gujjars and some brahmans( if you live in bengal you must have seen how diverse brahmins are with some looking like greeks whereas others matching africans in skin color) are primarily the people who were formed in Gandhara region. There is direct correlation between caucasian features and westward movement. Punjabis taller than Western UP ians who are taller than West bengalis and West Bengalis remarkably fairer than people of Chittagong region. This can be explained by aryan migration as since it started from Gandhara, it is natural that as we go eastwards we would see lesser " caucasian " features.

Sorry to disappoint you brother, Nalanda did not record any historical works so even if we had the monastry intact, it would not have helped much( not for our aryan invasion scenario) to know what exactly happened. Sacking of Nalanda was very bad but by no means it crippled our intellectual abilities as our mathematicians did not need Nalanda or Vikramshila to pursue their research. The significance of Nalanda was for buddhistic philosophy and just that.
It was not a university in classic sense of term.

 

[Peter]

Thanks for the response.

We need not know time machine( atleast not for knowing about aryan invasion) due to strong linguistic, archaeological and genetic evidences.
The movement of aryans took place in bronze age and it was in search of better lands so in one sense , it was a migration triggered by need for more pasture lands. However, no people like to be displaced so it is almost certainty that some violence must have been there especially in West Punjab.

The data is clear, white skinned aryans invade or migrate modern day khyber pakhtunkhwa , mix with locals, a new population is born with high western eurasian component and that population becomes the bearers of Great Indo Aryan classical civilization. I may get hate replies but I must say that modern day Jats, Gujjars and some brahmans( if you live in bengal you must have seen how diverse brahmins are with some looking like greeks whereas others matching africans in skin color) are primarily the people who were formed in Gandhara region. There is direct correlation between caucasian features and westward movement. Punjabis taller than Western UP ians who are taller than West bengalis and West Bengalis remarkably fairer than people of Chittagong region. This can be explained by aryan migration as since it started from Gandhara, it is natural that as we go eastwards we would see lesser " caucasian " features.

Sorry to disappoint you brother, Nalanda did not record any historical works so even if we had the monastry intact, it would not have helped much( not for our aryan invasion scenario) to know what exactly happened. Sacking of Nalanda was very bad but by no means it crippled our intellectual abilities as our mathematicians did not need Nalanda or Vikramshila to pursue their research. The significance of Nalanda was for buddhists and just that.

I know this theory of Aryans.Anyways on Nalanda i would like to add something even though its out of topic.India had great mathematicians,chemists and physicists in the ancient ages.Most of their works were stored in Nalanda universities according to some historians.Yes the sacking of Nalanda might not have completely eradicated our bright minds but it destroyed our spirit and tradition of learning to a great extent.One of the greatest and first chemists of modern India,Acharya Prafulla Chandra Ray,had once written a an article in bengali about how India was once at the forefront of chemistry in ancient times and how its place was lost after the muslim raids.You can check out the links below..

Prafulla Chandra Ray - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I could not find the link to the article in net but I think you get my point.

 

[Pratap]

I know this theory of Aryans.Anyways on Nalanda i would like to add something even though its out of topic.India had great mathematicians,chemists and physicists in the ancient ages.Most of their works were stored in Nalanda universities according to some historians.Yes the sacking of Nalanda might not have completely eradicated our bright minds but it destroyed our spirit and tradition of learning to a great extent.One of the greatest and first chemists of modern India,Acharya Prafulla Chandra Ray,had once written a an article in bengali about how India was once at the forefront of chemistry in ancient times and how its place was lost after the muslim raids.You can check out the links below..

Prafulla Chandra Ray - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I could not find the link to the article in net but I think you get my point.

Thanks for post and yes PC Ray wrote a great book with name something like history of Hindu chemistry.

I can take your point about loss in scholarship on chemistry as during tantric age, most of chemists were from Bihar Bengal( Tantric age is just before 1200AD). BTW, is my personal observation correct so far as physical differences between people of West Bengal and Chittagong are concerned? I mean even Das surname people in Kolkata resemble like north Indians, however Bangladeshis are very different( dark and very short).

 

[Pratap]

Double post deleted.

 

[Peter]

Thanks for post and yes PC Ray wrote a great book with name something like history of Hindu chemistry.

I can take your point about loss in scholarship on chemistry as during tantric age, most of chemists were from Bihar Bengal( Tantric age is just before 1200AD). BTW, is my personal observation correct so far as physical differences between people of West Bengal and Chittagong are concerned? I mean even Das surname people in Kolkata resemble like north Indians, however Bangladeshis are very different( dark and very short).

Yes,you are correct.However not all bengalis with Das surname are shudras,dalits or low castes.Dont go by surnames as lot of people have changed theirs.Also a lot of Brahmins,Kshatriyas have been reported to make fake sc,obc caste certificate to get reservations in IIT,gov jobs etc

Seat cancellation threat reduces fake certificates in IIT-JEE - The Hindu


(personally I know a few people who have done this deed.Being brahmin but using sc certificate to get rid of discrimination of reservations)

Coming to the topic Aryan invasion or migration whatever had happened it has given us the greatest culture ever seen on this planet.We may not be best in fields of sciences but our cultural values are the best.

 

[nirranj]

double post

 

[nirranj]

I suggest People to read Rajiv Malhotra and Aravindan Neelakandan's "Breaking India: Western Interventions in Dravidian and Dalit Faultlines". It gives interesting evidences on the western interests in creating a Aryan-Dravidian divide in Indian Society an how they fabricated evidences and created a super natural divide...

Available in flipkart, Breaking India: Western Interventions In Dravidian And Dalit Faultlines - Buy Breaking India: Western Interventions In Dravidian And Dalit Faultlines by malhotra, rajiv|author; neelakandan, arvindan|author; Online at Best Prices in India - Flipkart.c

 

[Pratap]

I suggest People to read Rajiv Malhotra and Aravindan Neelakandan's "Breaking India: Western Interventions in Dravidian and Dalit Faultlines". It gives interesting evidences on the western interests in creating a Aryan-Dravidian divide in Indian Society an how they fabricated evidences and created a super natural divide...

Available in flipkart, Breaking India: Western Interventions In Dravidian And Dalit Faultlines - Buy Breaking India: Western Interventions In Dravidian And Dalit Faultlines by malhotra, rajiv|author; neelakandan, arvindan|author; Online at Best Prices in India - Flipkart.c

The authors are correct except Aryan Invasion Theory.
There have been many pro Hindu authors who support AIT so excuse of westerners dividing Indians can not be held in this case. Ofcourse, Western Indologists have a long list of sins done by them mostly to break India but AIT is not one of them. It is unfortunate that degraded discourse in India on nationality, groups, indigenousness etc. has provided them chance to exploit the theory.

No Iranian thinks himself foreigner in Iran so why should Indians do not feel like Iranians? Answer is that in India , you have to be there since big bang else you can not be called indigenous. Anglo Saxons in England can be dated only to 400 AD and not before that and no one has galls to call them foreigners . However, in India, Indo Aryans have been present in all parts since 300 BC and even in backwaters like Assam since 300 Ad, yet the foreign missionaries have the shameless ness to call brahmins of Assam as foreigners.

If we Indians had read even a little bit of history of other nations, no Indian would have felt need to deny AIT but it is not going to happen. A country where people can be described as foreigners because they were not there since stone age needs some serious help.