Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Okabe Rintarou]

But in IA's FMBT tender , details regarding
1. number of crew,
2. Auto loader needed or not,
are "conveniently" left out, but "weight must be around 50 or so tons" alone is specified,

When did FMBT tender come out? Do you mean FRCV or FMBT?

There is a 700-800 mm DOP 125 mm round (single piece) that is under developement by DRDO (as per Tender)

Source please. This is the best I have:-
https://indianarmy.nic.in/makeinind...S AMMUNITION WITH HIGH DoP OF 600 – 800MM.pdf
Currently even DGMF is only giving requirement of new FSAPDS rounds of 600 mm RHAe. They say upto 800 mm in phases, but I would love to see them get to even 600 mm right now. 800 mm is a wet dream right now.

 

[Blood+]

3 plates, total 225mm thick (with some air-gaps in between)... 450-odd mm actual thickness, but some of it is less dense than RHA. A joke really!.. A sad one.

Sad and funny at the same time.

 

[Cactus09]

Not for the earlier models as their base armor is, let's just say, weak. Can explain it in more detail if anyone wants me to.

Please do

 

[Blood+]

Yes
Latest rounds used by Russia can penetrate upto 750 - 800mm

If Ordered we can get It under Fast track procurements(During war)

Both for T-72Ajay and T-90

Redirect Notice

Irrelevant as far as our T-90s are concerned, unless you can find a way to import/steal their latest guns.

 

[WARREN SS]

Thanks for the info
But i meant India T-90 not Russia latest T-90

Do you think russia will export their top of the line ammo ? Never. ToT ? Never.

At what cost ? ( Russian charged 3x-4x for old APFSDS deal )

Also performance of ammo depends on the gun , muzzle velocity , pressure generated etc , first Russians supplied older T-90 gun , 2nd never completed the TOT of that gun.

I doubt that new russian round will work with the existing indian T-90 gun , even if by any miracle they agree to supply it .

Also if they supply , they will supply the degraded export version of the same.

Same story all over again , Russians will laugh their way to the bank as usual , while army will start looking for other APFSDS again.

Army / MoD etc should pump money and get top of line APFSDS technology by hook or crook . It will solve the problem once for all and also keep OFB out of it.

Compatibility of APFSDS is depends on Guns

Russian Kinetics rounds usually
Compatible with most T-90's including Indians
Which uses

125mm Smoothbore

Both the 3BM59 Svinets-1 and 3BM60 Svinets-2
Are in Russians arsenal since 1991

They Compatible with Indian
Versions

We can always get License production deal like we got for Mango rounds

So far In user trials all tank rounds performance was to notch

Every Country leaches you out with fast track orders Israelis even more

Don't blame Russians for MoD and Indian army generals corruptions



And there Negligence for Upgradation of IA inventory of T-90S

There is Serious corruption involved in Army
Regarding this Indian Rifle procurement
Saga is example

Same goes for Indian artillery procurement.

 

[Blood+]

Compatibility of APFSDS is depends on Guns

Russian Kinetics rounds usually
Compatible with most T-90's including Indians
Which uses

125mm Smoothbore

Both the 3BM59 Svinets-1 and 3BM60 Svinets-2
Are in Russians arsenal since 1991

They Compatible with Indian
Versions

We can always get License production deal like we got for Mango rounds

So far In user trials all tank rounds performance was to notch

Every Country leaches you out with fast track orders Israelis even more

Don't blame Russians for MoD and Indian army generals corruptions



And there Negligence for Upgradation of IA inventory of T-90S

There is Serious corruption involved in Army
Regarding this Indian Rifle procurement
Saga is example

Dude, those rounds were designed to be fired through the 2A46M5 guns and not the baseline M version which we've got!! Just because they have the same bore diameter does not mean they are the same!!

 

[WARREN SS]

Dude, those rounds were designed to be fired through the 2A46M5 guns and not the baseline M version which we've got!! Just because they have the same bore diameter does not mean they are the same!!

According to military expert Alexei Khlopotov, the 3BM44 Lekalo is suitable for any 125mm gun of all the Russian Army tanks currently in service. In particular, the round is capable of piercing 650 millimeters of solid armor from a distance of two kilometers.

Also Sivnets S was fired from Same gun in 1980's
Kindly read the post i shared above

Redirect Notice

 

[Blood+]

According to military expert Alexei Khlopotov, the 3BM44 Lekalo is suitable for any 125mm gun of all the Russian Army tanks currently in service. In particular, the round is capable of piercing 650 millimeters of solid armor from a distance of two kilometers.

Also Sivnets S was fired from Same gun in 1980's
Kindly read the post i shared above

Redirect Notice

All of the MBTs in Russian service has been equipped with the 2A46M5 guns except for the T-14 Armata which uses an entirely different design. Anything else??

 

[Bleh]

You left out one very crucial detail, bruv.

That is not the effective thickness?.. Yeah, that we don't know anyways.

 

[WARREN SS]

All of the MBTs in Russian service has been equipped with the 2A46M5 guns except for the T-14 Armata which uses an entirely different design. Anything else??

These Dimensions Of Mango ,Lekalo And Sivenets

3VBM17	3BM42/3BM44 ("Mango")	4Zh63	20.4	7.05	5.3/5.3+2.9	450/0°, 230/60°
3VBM19	3BM42M/3BM44M ("Lekalo")	4Zh63	20.4	7.05	5.3/5.3+2.9	650/0°, 270/60

3VBM20

3BM46/3BM48 ("Svinets")

4Zh63

20.4

7.05

5.3/5.3+2.9

650/0°, 300/60°

Since India T-90 bhisma uses 3BM42/3BM44 Its Compatible With 3BM42M/3BM44M ("Lekalo") since round Was Created to replace Mango in Russian inventory in 1994.

Counter With Technical Data ???

 

[Bleh]

View attachment 81394

Problem is the design of Arjun itself is outdated... Frankly after Indian Army wanted a lighter version of the Centurion, the Vijayantha tank was hatched. Arjun prototypes were based on that only & the base design is still that!

We need to change the platform ASAP. And NGMBT can't come sooner.

 

[fire starter]

Problem is the design of Arjun itself is outdated... Frankly after Indian Army wanted a lighter version of the Centurion, the Vijayantha tank was hatched. Arjun prototypes were based on that only & the base design is still that!

We need to change the platform ASAP. And NGMBT can't come sooner.

Arjun only limited is the design in terms of sensor it is already world class.

 

[Bleh]

Arjun only limited is the design in terms of sensor it is already world class.

Not really, no.

World class sensor would be of it could identify multiple incoming warheads & assign different hard-kill launchers at each... Or have ground-penetrating radar on the mineplough that overrides that driver to halt the tank on detecting IED... Or have cameras on all sides that'll emulate see-through armour & panoramic sight mated with helmet-mounted display of the commander's guided by neck movement (like LCH auto-cannon)... Or jammers & DIRCM, to spoof drones or loitering munition & IIR/MMW guided ATGMs... That's what Israel, Russia, NATO are working on.

Saying "wOrLd ClaSs" is easy, but on the armoured vehicles sector we have only advanced enough to counter last generation weaponery, like laser-guided ATGMs & tanks with shitty FCS.

 

[fire starter]

Not really, no.

World class sensor would be of it could identify multiple incoming warheads & assign different hard-kill launchers at each... Or have ground-penetrating radar on the mineplough that overrides that driver to halt the tank on detecting IED... Or have cameras on all sides that'll emulate see-through armour & panoramic sight mated with helmet-mounted display of the commander's guided by neck movement (like LCH auto-cannon)... Or jammers & DIRCM, to spoof drones or loitering munition & IIR/MMW guided ATGMs... That's what Israel, Russia, NATO are working on.

Saying "wOrLd ClaSs" is easy, but on the armoured vehicles sector we have only advanced enough to counter last generation weaponery, like laser-guided ATGMs & tanks with shitty FCS.

Nigga which other tanks except APS have such capabilities.

 

[Blood+]

That is not the effective thickness?.. Yeah, that we don't know anyways.

Notice anything?

 

[Bleh]

Nigga which other tanks except APS have such capabilities.

It will be, at some point. I meant that such stuff is already being worked on by leaders in this field presently...

Alright, here goes nothing.
You see, the early model Chinese MBTs like Type 90II (AKA Al Khalid and Al Khalid-I), ZTZ 96 and ZTZ-99s had fully modular armor for ease of maintenance and replacement of damaged modules where the entire block of the turret cheeks were made removable. The LOS thickness of the turret cheeks were about 650mm for those earlier models as can be seen in this factory photograph

The air-gap for bolt/rivet heads you mean?.. Safer to assume the steel plate at the back, that the module is attached to, is definitely already as thick. Should count that too.

 

[Blood+]

The air-gap for bolt/rivet heads you mean?..

Yep, takes up as much as 40% of the armor volume. So, in a nutshell, the AK and ZTZ96/99s do not have any specific weak spots, the entire god damn turret front is a big fucking weak spot!!

Safer to assume the steel plate at the back, that the module is attached to, is definitely already as thick. Should count that too.

You mean the back plate the armor modules are attached on?? Nah, 5 cm at best.

 

[Blood+]

Arjun only limited is the design in terms of sensor it is already world class.

Wish I could share your optimism. But truly, it is not, I'm afraid.

 

[Blood+]

Please do

Alright, here goes nothing.
You see, the early model Chinese MBTs like Type 90II (AKA Al Khalid and Al Khalid-I), ZTZ 96 and ZTZ-99s had fully modular armor for ease of maintenance and replacement of damaged modules where the entire block of the turret cheeks were made removable. The LOS thickness of the turret cheeks were about 650mm for those earlier models as can be seen in this factory photograph below

So, the overall LOS thickness at 0 degrees from the main gun axis is circa 700mm at best. Now, that little hatch thingy you see there that I marked with black borders?? That whole box is just empty space. You heard it right - empty space, it's just air!! That gap is left there to make room for the mounting bolts. This gap has LOS of about ~260mm as shown with the blue line, which means the actual armor effective LOS thickness is a paltry (700-260)mm = 440mm for almost the entirety of the turret front.
Here, another picture -

Here you can see the gap in its full glory, without its cover on.

This is the price you pay when you use up all your XP on your modularity stats!!

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Alright, here goes nothing.
You see, the early model Chinese MBTs like Type 90II (AKA Al Khalid and Al Khalid-I), ZTZ 96 and ZTZ-99s had fully modular armor for ease of maintenance and replacement of damaged modules where the entire block of the turret cheeks were made removable. The LOS thickness of the turret cheeks were about 650mm for those earlier models as can be seen in this factory photograph below
View attachment 81413

So, the overall LOS thickness at 0 degrees from the main gun axis is circa 700mm at best. Now, that little hatch thingy you see there that I marked with black borders?? That whole box is just empty space. You heard it right - empty space, it's just air!! That gap is left there to make room for the mounting bolts. This gap has LOS of about ~260mm as shown with the blue line, which means the actual armor effective LOS thickness is a paltry (700-260)mm = 440mm for almost the entirety of the turret front.
Here, another picture -
View attachment 81414
Here you can see the gap in its full glory, without its cover on.

This is the price you pay when you use up all your XP on your modularity stats!!

WTF!?
Did they fix this $hit in their later models?