Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Damian]

Well, there are several problems with using snorkels.

Ask yourself how many vehicles can do that, I mean not only tanks, not many vehicles can also float, especially the logistics, and logistics are needed.

So sometimes more efficent is to find a bridge or build one.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

An old book.

Collect Russia "River Crossing Operations", dated 1927. Soviet Russian

Xerxes probably was referenced in that old Soviet book.

Xerxes' Pontoon Bridges - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ersakthivel]

@ Ersakthivel, Half of the things people are saying without any link or nothing to back there claims, Many things told there are ok from open source..

These claims are from an israeli expert who assisted in the arjun design.
the authentic source for them is not yet found out by me.But I thought that the nature of the discussion is deeply technical with chronology of arjun development,posting it here will be useful for all members to see the level of progress being made.
SO that ARJUN won't be called obsolete,repeatedly, without any technical claims backing it.
yes kunal ,it is just from discussion in a forum.there are no authentic liks for these claims.But the cromium lining claim has proof.

 

[ersakthivel]

Xerxes probably was referenced in that old Soviet book.

Xerxes' Pontoon Bridges - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are bridge alying equipment with very light weight available for arjun

 

[navkapu]

Hi ersakthivel,

Just want to add we also have a proof of rpg shots bouncing off during the point blank shots on arjun, by the other tank the shots also bounced off and it was thought that they had used a training round. The issue about the gun firing are also documented and the accuracy is great so is the ability of the projectile to slice up armour.

Sometimes the info is classified and you have to read between the lines and sometimes its all fake.

Question's to be asked : Army never questioned Kanchans Armours Performance why?
Question's to be asked : Where else Kanchan Armour is being used?
Question's to be asked : Are there any independent agencies that evaluated arjun?
Question's to be asked : Army Never insisted on changes to the Rifled Gun why?
Question's to be asked : Why was the era added late?
Question's to be asked : Has the accuracy of the Gun being commented on in any Trials?
Question's to be asked : What About Crew Comfort?
Question's to be asked : Was arjun able to perform with AC?
Question's to be asked : What Happened to the shot fired at point blank range at Arjun during test against other tank.
Question's to be asked : What was the penetration level achieved by that shot?
Question's to be asked : What Penetration did the round fired from Arjun Achieve?
Question's to be asked : Is there a plan of using CL-20 in AMMO?

No one will give you answers IA , Drdo never. Make Inferences logical ones.

Arjun has been the stepson of army if the project is not scrapped by now then they are doing something correct. In the recent wake of corruption allegations on the government if you are smart you will know what i mean its difficult for LCA and Arjun to survive and if they survive that is because they are doing something correct and also you will see lot of stuff added to T90 & T72 based on what we have in Arjun (What does that mean, why are we adding them when they are inferior).

I hate to write long posts but there is something there else it will be dead long time ago ...................................... Remember Trishul (missile).

Please don't reply to this, there are many questions more, look for answers there are many that don't have a direct answer.......

These claims are from an israeli expert who assisted in the arjun design.
the authentic source for them is not yet found out by me.But I thought that the nature of the discussion is deeply technical with chronology of arjun development,posting it here will be useful for all members to see the level of progress being made.
SO that ARJUN won't be called obsolete,repeatedly, without any technical claims backing it.
yes kunal ,it is just from discussion in a forum.there are no authentic liks for these claims.But the cromium lining claim has proof.

 

[ersakthivel]

Hi ersakthivel,

Just want to add we also have a proof of rpg shots bouncing off during the point blank shots on arjun, by the other tank the shots also bounced off and it was thought that they had used a training round. The issue about the gun firing are also documented and the accuracy is great so is the ability of the projectile to slice up armour.

Sometimes the info is classified and you have to read between the lines and sometimes its all fake.

Question's to be asked : Army never questioned Kanchans Armours Performance why?

That's what i said,no dissatisfaction by the army over kanchan armour indiacating it is good and contemproary enough

Question's to be asked : Where else Kanchan Armour is being used?

It has been also used on T-90 armor plates in some place before TOT for armor tech. It was found to be satisfactory, as said by kunal in this thread.

Question's to be asked : Are there any independent agencies that evaluated arjun?

Fed up about the negativity surrounding arjun CVRDE was reportedly asking for independent 3rd party audit of arjun.No reply is the last update in this regard.

Question's to be asked : Army Never insisted on changes to the Rifled Gun why?

Because it was found to be good enough.

Question's to be asked : Why was the era added late?
Question's to be asked : Has the accuracy of the Gun being commented on in any Trials?

The MOD in it's parliamentary report has commented that arjun's gun fires more accurate and much better range.I am not including with which tanks it was compared as it will stir up a controversy,It has better accuracy firing on the move,meaning improved first hit-kill probability ,most important for any hunter killer MBT.Because only tanks with much higher firing range, much higher firing accuracy on the move,much higher first hit-kill probability fits the bill.

Question's to be asked : What About Crew Comfort?

Best in indian army due to hydro-pneumatic suspension,resulting in better crew comfort.Also crew of four reduces fatigue during long drawn out battle.Roof hung seats are to be implemented on mk-2 to save crew from landmine blasts.Also ammunation stored seperately won'n catch fire in case of seeping explosions as they are not lying on the floor.In mk-2 it is to be stepped up to the level of compartmentalisation of ammo,with blow out panels to save the crew much better.

Question's to be asked : Was arjun able to perform with AC?

Yes .it's electronics are heat hardened to withstand the desert heat.Much better ,because of higher powered APU,it's monitoring and communication systems can function normally in stand by mode.

Question's to be asked : What Happened to the shot fired at point blank range at Arjun during test against other tank.
Question's to be asked : What was the penetration level achieved by that shot?
Question's to be asked : What Penetration did the round fired from Arjun Achieve?
Question's to be asked : Is there a plan of using CL-20 in AMMO?

The answers to the above questions are not with me,as I am yet to find any source with authority in these matters.Only people like KUNAL can answer that stuff, as they have the background for it,until info comes out in the open.

No one will give you answers IA , Drdo never. Make Inferences logical ones.

Arjun has been the stepson of army if the project is not scrapped by now then they are doing something correct. In the recent wake of corruption allegations on the government if you are smart you will know what i mean its difficult for LCA and Arjun to survive and if they survive that is because they are doing something correct and also you will see lot of stuff added to T90 & T72 based on what we have in Arjun (What does that mean, why are we adding them when they are inferior).

I hate to write long posts but there is something there else it will be dead long time ago ...................................... Remember Trishul (missile).

Please don't reply to this, there are many questions more, look for answers there are many that don't have a direct answer.......

SO a lot of information about arjun's superior feature available in the open.

 

[Damian]

SO a lot of information about arjun's superior feature available in the open.

What superior feature?

That is mostly a babble talk not something credible.

 

[p2prada]

Question's to be asked : Army never questioned Kanchans Armours Performance why?

Such a thing we will never know for at least another 20 years as long as somebody does not release a book from within the design bureau.

Question's to be asked : Where else Kanchan Armour is being used?

Only T-90 from what we know.

Question's to be asked : Are there any independent agencies that evaluated arjun?

Yes, but that counts for nothing because we won't have information in the civilian domain regarding it.

Question's to be asked : Army Never insisted on changes to the Rifled Gun why?

Another question that we don't know.

Question's to be asked : Why was the era added late?

The increase in weight should be handled by the engine. This is just one of the reasons. ERA adds 2 to 3 tons in weight. Back in 1998 they tested Arjun with a two ton mine trawl and the engine seized.

Question's to be asked : Has the accuracy of the Gun being commented on in any Trials?

In a recent debate between Major Generals and Brigadiers on TV. They said the accuracy on Arjun and T-90 are similar.

Question's to be asked : What About Crew Comfort?

Good to have.

Question's to be asked : Was arjun able to perform with AC?

People always get confused about this. Unlike T-90 which received its current configuration of digital electronics in 1998-99, Arjun was first tested with digital electronics only in 2005 and those were mostly from Israel, a hot country. So, Arjun's electronics were already hardened unlike the French electronics on T-90. As of today, due to the use of high performance electronics, ACs are required on all tanks to keep within minimum operating conditions in order to keep the systems from degrading.

I guess you already know that your computer at home will perform best in conditions where the temperature is cool and dust free. If your room was hot and dusty, your computer will still function, but it will be degraded. So, there is a difference in what is required based on howmuch you can spend. If you can afford the AC, then the electronics will perform better and last longer.

The added advantage is crew comfort. But the temperature is maintained at ~30[SUP]o[/SUP]C and not the extra cool 23[SUP]o[/SUP]C at your home or when using a cooling suit.

Question's to be asked : What Happened to the shot fired at point blank range at Arjun during test against other tank.

Another question that we don't have answers for. All tanks are tested against known ammunition, at point blank range. It is a genuine requirement for all modern tanks.

Question's to be asked : What was the penetration level achieved by that shot?
Question's to be asked : What Penetration did the round fired from Arjun Achieve?
Question's to be asked : Is there a plan of using CL-20 in AMMO?

More such questions. We don't know if it is even feasible, financially, to use the CL-20.

It is prudent to think critically. There are some things that we can achieve, there are some things that we can't. Apart from that there are things that the Army cannot discard for the sake of indigenization. So, the Army has to make the harder decisions because it is the army who will have to live with it.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I am willing to answer few, Coz i can with my available knowledge, this reply is for all who want to know abt it..

1. The Whole Program is and was conducted under Army supervision, there are requirement put by IA and archived by DRDO, Kanchan is a very modular Armour and can be enhanced with more layers..

2. T-72M1 & T-90S as per DRDO 2011 report..

3. IMI

4. Coz GSQR was never changed regarding Gun as it preformed excellent with great accuracy better than T-72M1 back in days..

5. The study of ERA and its effects were not available during late 80s and Mid 90s so no change in GSQR back then..

6. There are no such complains on gun but on FCS during 2005 later in 2008 it was rectified and enhance..

7. Lots of space to breath..

8. Arjun use special system which keep temperature down to all Major electronic devices but not crew as it was not in GSQR to have AC..

9. The round is from T-72M1 which was an older Russian Round later IMI round was tested so does 106mm RCL HEAT round..

10. There are no official records but taking the kind of ammo avilable back in those days, Russian Round is lesser than 300mm RHA and IMI one is 500+ RHA..

11. There are Plan to have CL-20 as HEAT round, In article is written clearly that there are works to minimize the cost per KG..

Hi ersakthivel,

Question's to be asked : Army never questioned Kanchans Armours Performance why?
Question's to be asked : Where else Kanchan Armour is being used?
Question's to be asked : Are there any independent agencies that evaluated arjun?
Question's to be asked : Army Never insisted on changes to the Rifled Gun why?
Question's to be asked : Why was the era added late?
Question's to be asked : Has the accuracy of the Gun being commented on in any Trials?
Question's to be asked : What About Crew Comfort?
Question's to be asked : Was arjun able to perform with AC?
Question's to be asked : What Happened to the shot fired at point blank range at Arjun during test against other tank.
Question's to be asked : What was the penetration level achieved by that shot?
Question's to be asked : What Penetration did the round fired from Arjun Achieve?
Question's to be asked : Is there a plan of using CL-20 in AMMO?

 

[ersakthivel]

Such a thing we will never know for at least another 20 years as long as somebody does not release a book from within the design bureau.



Only T-90 from what we know.




Yes, but that counts for nothing because we won't have information in the civilian domain regarding it.



Another question that we don't know.



The increase in weight should be handled by the engine. This is just one of the reasons. ERA adds 2 to 3 tons in weight. Back in 1998 they tested Arjun with a two ton mine trawl and the engine seized.



In a recent debate between Major Generals and Brigadiers on TV. They said the accuracy on Arjun and T-90 are similar.



Good to have.



People always get confused about this. Unlike T-90 which received its current configuration of digital electronics in 1998-99, Arjun was first tested with digital electronics only in 2005 and those were mostly from Israel, a hot country. So, Arjun's electronics were already hardened unlike the French electronics on T-90. As of today, due to the use of high performance electronics, ACs are required on all tanks to keep within minimum operating conditions in order to keep the systems from degrading.

I guess you already know that your computer at home will perform best in conditions where the temperature is cool and dust free. If your room was hot and dusty, your computer will still function, but it will be degraded. So, there is a difference in what is required based on howmuch you can spend. If you can afford the AC, then the electronics will perform better and last longer.

The added advantage is crew comfort. But the temperature is maintained at ~30[SUP]o[/SUP]C and not the extra cool 23[SUP]o[/SUP]C at your home or when using a cooling suit.



Another question that we don't have answers for. All tanks are tested against known ammunition, at point blank range. It is a genuine requirement for all modern tanks.



More such questions. We don't know if it is even feasible, financially, to use the CL-20.

It is prudent to think critically. There are some things that we can achieve, there are some things that we can't. Apart from that there are things that the Army cannot discard for the sake of indigenization. So, the Army has to make the harder decisions because it is the army who will have to live with it.

All I SAID WAS OTHER THAN THE WEIGHT ISSUE THE ARMY HAS NOT EXPRESSED ANY INFERIORITY OF ARJUN'S ARMOR OVER OTHER TANKS IN SERVICE.

other than discussion between brigadiers and generals;"SAYING THAT T-90 AND ARJUN HAS SAME ACCURACY",there is nothing authentic in your post.

Is this how people determine the accuracy of arjun's accurate first hit, and farther range .

Do you know you are directly contradicting the MOD report to parliament?

 

[ersakthivel]

The Arjun's smooth ride allows its gun to accurately hit a suitcase two kilometres away while driving at 30 kmph.

It indicates arjun's firing acccuracy and the reason behind the arjun's firing accuracy -"SMOOTH RIDE PROVIDED BY THE HYDRO PNEUMATIC STATE OF THE ART SUSPENSION SYSTEM THAT IS ON PAR WITH ALL MAJOR WESTERN MBTS".

eventhough most of the stuff in this supposed "INVESTIGATION", IS THE STANDARD STUFF always used to beat down the arjun, that is the excess weight.For that there are many explanations that it was borne out of the requirments specified by the army.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

There are many factors, suspension is one but unspecified No of Gyros stabilizers for Main Gun..

 

[LurkerBaba]

@ersakthivel please don't post from rubbish sources like dailymailnews - "Englash Newspaper"

 

[ersakthivel]

A comparative trial was conducted by the Indian Army in March 2010, in which the Arjun was pitted against the Indian T-90. The trial pitted one squadron of Arjuns against an equal number of T-90s. Each squadron was given three tactical tasks; each involved driving across 50 kilometres of desert terrain and then shooting at a set of targets. Each tank had to fire at least ten rounds, stationary and on the move, with each hit being carefully logged. In total, each tank drove 150 km and fired between 30-50 rounds. The trials also checked the tanks' ability to drive through water channels 5–6 feet deep.[72]
Regarding the trial, a Ministry of Defence press release reported:
After many years of trial and tribulation it has now proved its worth by its superb performance under various circumstances, such as driving cross-country over rugged sand dunes, detecting, observing and quickly engaging targets, accurately hitting targets – both stationary and moving, with pin pointed accuracy. Its superior fire-power is based on accurate and quick target acquisition capability during day and night in all types of weather and shortest possible reaction time during combat engagements.[72][73]

this is from
Arjun (tank) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ersakthivel]

‘Desert Ferrari' and more

another report about arjun.

 

[bhramos]

Question's to be asked : Was arjun able to perform with AC?

COOLING GARMENT FOR TANK CREW

Developed to provide comfort to the tank crew operating in extreme hot conditions

Solid State Cooling System
The cooling unit supplies 750 ml of cold water at 21 Celcius to the cooling garment continuously in closed loop to extract heat.
Evaluated in field conditions of desert fitted I MBT Arjun.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its a really old news, Its not operational..

 

[sayareakd]

Its a really old news, Its not operational..

that is true but Arjun has enough space inside and we can add this anytime we want.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

that is true but Arjun has enough space inside and we can add this anytime we want.

Sir i think best is to install the AC coz this suit hinders the crew mobility inside the tank..

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Sir i think best is to install the AC coz this suit hinders the crew mobility inside the tank..

To run the AC they should run the engine even on idle which would consume a lot of fuel, So it will end up being more bad than good, most of the tanks service it will be parked some where in the desert and no one can afford to run the engine during that time, unless your the yanks invading an oil rich nation, i guess that is why they have gone in for cooling suits which can run on battery.

Mobility inside a tank is not a big deal except for the loader may be but one can get used to working in a suit, it is better to have them in the long run to avoid crew fatigue than not to.