Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

[methos]

@methos, Its not first time you make such points, Do i need to repeat here, Than MK2 1400hp engine is modified to produce more torque at cost of losing few Kms in top speed ? ..

Your posts are often contradicting with reality, just like the one where you identified the holding mechanism for the ERA tiles as NERA, despite this not being possible because of the actual working mechanism of NERA.
It is possible to increase the torque of an engine, but not without sacrificing the acceleration. Torque is a physical unit and hence can be measured and calculated. So your claim I previously quoted was saying two opposite things at the same time, because it was - like always - one of your attempts to nullify any critical receptions towards the Arjun tank.

If you prefer to make impossible claims which are inconsistent with the laws of physics, then go on, but don't complain if I rectify these.

 

[Eastman]

^^ Improved acceleration at the expense of top speed, done at the spocket/final drive

 

[Eastman]

@methos Torque increase acceleration, Max power determine the top speed possible for a vehicle, a gear ratio is a blend of maximum performance of a vehicle (Power Band curve) also fuel economy factor, yes I believe that, literally if you have a bigger engine you have better power band (other thing being constant) plus better power to weight ratio.

In the Arjun story, if a change in the final drive helps in tackling current requirement it is a better bet then reevaluation of an entirely new engine which is definitely a time consuming idea both in the engineering drawing board, real time performance testing and the end user level trails, which might not take less then two more years at least (considering the new engine pass all evaluation ).

P.S. 1500hp engine can be introduced latter on as per requirement and feasibility.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Please read the thread, What told is not just product of imagination land but fact from official statement in article posted in this very thread multiple times.

Suggest you strongly to see that and learn before making such personal attacks based on your assumptions ..

Your posts are often contradicting with reality, just like the one where you identified the holding mechanism for the ERA tiles as NERA, despite this not being possible because of the actual working mechanism of NERA.
It is possible to increase the torque of an engine, but not without sacrificing the acceleration. Torque is a physical unit and hence can be measured and calculated. So your claim I previously quoted was saying two opposite things at the same time, because it was - like always - one of your attempts to nullify any critical receptions towards the Arjun tank.

If you prefer to make impossible claims which are inconsistent with the laws of physics, then go on, but don't complain if I rectify these.

 

[Dejawolf]

@menthos Torque increase acceleration, Max power determine the top speed possible for a vehicle, a gear ratio is a blend of maximum performance of a vehicle (Power Band curve) also fuel economy factor, yes I believe that, literally if you have a bigger engine you have better power band (other thing being constant) plus better power to weight ratio.

this is correct. torque increases acceleration, HP increases top speed. arjun engine has less HP, and more torque than the MB 873.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I should add another point, 1400hp used in MK1, But Tubro charged 1400Hp used in MK2 ..

Tubro Charge gives 30% more power for MK2 ..

=============================

Bottom line is 1400hp engine is tuned for MK2, It provides good speed and acceleration which are no disadvantages ..

 

[rohit b3]

I should add another point, 1400hp used in MK1, But Tubro charged 1400Hp used in MK2 ..

Tubro Charge gives 30% more power for MK2 ..

=============================

Bottom line is 1400hp engine is tuned for MK2, It provides good speed and acceleration which are no disadvantages ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeKcFdemtuo

But at 6.40, of the above video, they say that Mk1 also has a Turbo charged engine.?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Afaik, MK1 engine is not a turbo-charged version but MK2 is ..

 

[Dejawolf]

MB-838 ka-501 has a larger cylinder volume, 39,7 vs 37,4. i guess the ka-501 uses newer material than the older leopard 1 engine.
also, original leopard 1 engine is supercharged.

 

[methos]

this is correct. torque increases acceleration, HP increases top speed. arjun engine has less HP, and more torque than the MB 873.

Actually there is a relation between power output, torque, rotations per minute and accleration. This is for example given in Kampfpanzer Entwicklungen der Nachkriegszeit by Rolf Hilmes (who has a diploma in engineering, worked for the German defence procurment agency and lectures at the German military academy) and similiar books.
The point is that in this formula (or rather set of formulas) the torque is one of many multiplicants which lead to the final power output, which means that increasing the torque while staying at the same power requires a reduction in the other factors. Most of these cannot be changed without completely swapping the engine. Those which can be changed are also related to the acceleration.

 

[Dejawolf]

Actually there is a relation between power output, torque, rotations per minute and accleration. This is for example given in Kampfpanzer Entwicklungen der Nachkriegszeit by Rolf Hilmes (who has a diploma in engineering, worked for the German defence procurment agency and lectures at the German military academy) and similiar books.
The point is that in this formula (or rather set of formulas) the torque is one of many multiplicants which lead to the final power output, which means that increasing the torque while staying at the same power requires a reduction in the other factors. Most of these cannot be changed without completely swapping the engine. Those which can be changed are also related to the acceleration.

right, i got the information about the MTU MB-838 Ka-501 from the MTU website, although they took down that page for some reason. it showed the power curve and everything. and max torque was listed as 5000Nm@1500rpm.

 

[ersakthivel]

Your posts are often contradicting with reality, just like the one where you identified the holding mechanism for the ERA tiles as NERA, despite this not being possible because of the actual working mechanism of NERA.
It is possible to increase the torque of an engine, but not without sacrificing the acceleration. Torque is a physical unit and hence can be measured and calculated. So your claim I previously quoted was saying two opposite things at the same time, because it was - like always - one of your attempts to nullify any critical receptions towards the Arjun tank.

If you prefer to make impossible claims which are inconsistent with the laws of physics, then go on, but don't complain if I rectify these.

Torque increases the pulling power , gear ratio determines what is the max available torque and the acceleration available at different torque levels in differing gears.

Please post the definition of torque and acceleration.

Also post the equation that that exclusively defines the relationship between torque and acceleration.

Without posting equations don't talk about laws of physics.


It only exposes your ignorance further.

For example take any modern car engine ,

they all improve on giving higher acceleration and top speed at lower rpms(i.e high torque).

This are all related to gear ratios and fuel economies.

As per your ,"physics laws " if increase in accelerations always comes at the expense of torque, how come modern automobile engines deliver higher power and top speeds at lower rpm?

if you still don't understand , if you drive a 80s model nozzle diesel car in third gear it's top speed will be below 30 km per hour.torque will be lower .power delivery will be patchy, acceleration pathetic.

If you drive a modern direct injection diesel cars of the of today(of the same engine cc) you can go up to 60 Km per hour without stressing the engine, derive more torque from it and more acceleration.power delivery would be seamless,acceleration will be far higher, top speeds at lower gear way higher.

As engine tech evolves people derive higher acceleration at higher torque(lower rpm) leading to better engine performance.

So without knowing basics don't rant against the MOD.

 

[Srinivas_K]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeKcFdemtuo

But at 6.40, of the above video, they say that Mk1 also has a Turbo charged engine.?

The last 3 mins speech is good

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Can anyone post the link of recent DRDO techfocus, I took some screen shots but lost the link in making ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

There is a good news about simulators ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

DRDO Techfoucs on Armored Vehicles ..

 

[Hari Sud]

When is the Indian Army going to end this stupid Arjun Main Battle tank Mark 1 & 2 debate.

The nit picking army is doing its best to scuttle the Arjun Tank in any form.

I think, Army needs, politician's help to beat them into shape. That is exactly what the new NaMO government should do. They should item by item on Indian Army's shopping list and dump anything which is locally available in favor of imports.

All those high ranked generals very happy to recommend imports be placed on the retirement list. One or two of them acting stupid should be actually retired. This done they will get the message.

In addition that stupidity of GQSR in which a high level effort is made to specify hardware which exists only in the glossy brochures of the companies who are peddling them be scrapped. In its place buy India first be the slogan. Yes, if you have to buy technology outside or have a joint venture with FDI at 49% be done more expeditiously.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

According to the Article, It seems all test are done and certified ..

Next is mass production of first 116 MK2 ..

 

[Twinblade]

According to the Article, It seems all test are done and certified ..

Next is mass production of first 116 MK2 ..

Next is user acceptance trials. The trials done were development trials.

 

[Pulkit]

I agree to your intent but I will not like that much intereference by politicians in Defense...
Though Defense needs to get there act straight....

When is the Indian Army going to end this stupid Arjun Main Battle tank Mark 1 & 2 debate.

The nit picking army is doing its best to scuttle the Arjun Tank in any form.

I think, Army needs, politician's help to beat them into shape. That is exactly what the new NaMO government should do. They should item by item on Indian Army's shopping list and dump anything which is locally available in favor of imports.

All those high ranked generals very happy to recommend imports be placed on the retirement list. One or two of them acting stupid should be actually retired. This done they will get the message.

In addition that stupidity of GQSR in which a high level effort is made to specify hardware which exists only in the glossy brochures of the companies who are peddling them be scrapped. In its place buy India first be the slogan. Yes, if you have to buy technology outside or have a joint venture with FDI at 49% be done more expeditiously.