Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

[hammer head]

Good try on being the devils advocate. Again try to defend the rampant corruption to earn comissions on arms trade, constantly changing requirements, never being part of embracing the development of military eco system, stop putting these absurdities into an absolute fact that indian army is on constant endeavour do scuttle desi programs , be it tanks or machine guns. Armies involve products into their battle field schemes and not make battle field schemes around a tank. Just hoardes of nonsense

Your message shows your ignorance on Military matters, And you impatience to even go through my old Msgs, Next time before writing crap and granting commission Think twice atleast before quoting me.

 

[Abhi9]

Your message shows your ignorance on Military matters, And you impatience to even go through my old Msgs, Next time before writing crap and granting commission Think twice atleast before quoting me.

Haha think twice, what are you online thug. Please stop this asinine rhetoric .Truth is a bitter pill to swallow. Military matters is just not for miltary men, war is too costly of a matter to be left to generals , economies of scale govern the era. Just an fyi, indian armies reluctness to not incorporate bp vest that is deemed to be bulky by thy generals , cost more money when a full trained soldier loser his life. A fully trained soldier , cost more money and more valuable than some mobility due to a bulky vest. .how did an arjun tank thats started as an 105 mm gun tank ended being 60 + ton tank. Thats called shifting of goal posts , vested interest in scuttling desi programme. Please do not try to act is you are the ultimate dictum on military matters,

 

[Abhi9]

Its indian armys old way of making politiciallans sccumb to " hue and cry" tactics. First make it seem like war is inevitavle and is going to happen tomorrow. Hey pakistan just bought t 80 , war is tomorrow, lets order thousands of t90 junk. We are not satisfied with arjun, even though t90 is not battle tested, we have to change junks , malfunctioning thermal imagers because it gives out in thar heat, drdo has to come with indeginous barrel for that junk, an indeginous ballistic computer. Hey lets change insas as its not modern enough, but never try to evolve it. Insas excalibur is not lethal enough, lets go for an idiotic mutli caliber rifle, oh no drdo just came up with mciws, no worries ,now we can change the requirements to 7.62 x 51 nato. Hey ofb came up with that rifle, do not worry , we will use doklam to make politicians shit in their pants and then we get imports. Do not worry , it worked before , it will thus time. Do not worry as it will cost billions of dollors in foreign currency resrves, and not to mention the millions in cost of new training logistics . Who the hell is writing these gsqrs

 

[hammer head]

A wa

Haha think twice, what are you online thug. Please stop this asinine rhetoric .Truth is a bitter pill to swallow. Military matters is just not for miltary men, war is too costly of a matter to be left to generals , economies of scale govern the era. Just an fyi, indian armies reluctness to not incorporate bp vest that is deemed to be bulky by thy generals , cost more money when a full trained soldier loser his life. A fully trained soldier , cost more money and more valuable than some mobility due to a bulky vest. .how did an arjun tank thats started as an 105 mm gun tank ended being 60 + ton tank. Thats called shifting of goal posts , vested interest in scuttling desi programme. Please do not try to act is you are the ultimate dictum on military matters,

Arm chair Generals like you who want have a word on every matter without an iota of knowledge are plenty on this forum,So stop ranting from your arse, Dont tell me how you get up in the morning and speak to your father !!
Now coming to your BPJ point have you ever had a Armour plate on your body and tried Running for even a KM ?? I am sure not because dumbfucks like you simply rant tirelessly.

As per you what is the amount being spend on a Infantry soldier ??

GSQRS shift because tech is evolving on daily basis, The army will not wait for ages till you a desi product arrives it has to prepare itself for battle.

 

[binayak95]

A wa


Arm chair Generals like you who want have a word on every matter without an iota of knowledge are plenty on this forum,So stop ranting from your arse, Dont tell me how you get up in the morning and speak to your father !!
Now coming to your BPJ point have you ever had a Armour plate on your body and tried Running for even a KM ?? I am sure not because dumbfucks like you simply rant tirelessly.

As per you what is the amount being spend on a Infantry soldier ??

GSQRS shift because tech is evolving on daily basis, The army will not wait for ages till you a desi product arrives it has to battle prepare

Calm down bro. Not worth it. And yes I have run with a full battle pack. The thought of heavy plate inserts makes me wince.

 

[hammer head]

Calm down bro. Not worth it. And yes I have run with a full battle pack. The thought of heavy plate inserts makes me wince.

Tell it do the dolt who is the Smart aleck here, Should Arjun be inducted ?? Yes it should be 100%, but the induction too should have a time frame and a complete product, you just cant hide your incompetence behind Desi product logic. When the paki bought T-80 UD What was the status of our Arjun??

 

[Abhi9]

First of all


Great Mr. India iam sure Scientist like you will fight on the front and give gyan to the infantry soldier who using a Vintage INSAS against the latest gen weapons. Thats what scientist like you do to hide your incompetence ( just you and not the whole fraternity) talk about M4s and Abrahams. You want to justify the delays attached to a project with a crygenic engine do you even have a clue what goes on at the LOC on daily basis?? Ans would be NO coz fat ass dolts like you rants sitting from the ac chambers doing nothing except for calling others Intercessor.

And surely you have been evolving the space age assault rifle tech since 1999, How much more time you need another 20 years for the perfect final product??

Lastly you want to tell me that you know it all because you are Scientist here??? GOD BLESS YOU IN THAT CASE KID.

If you keep on changing the spec, thats not how product development works. Changing specs cause revision of development time as new technolgies are to be incorporated or developed. Technogy changes so rapidly , you cannot buy a new tv every year, can you?just take the case evolution of dhruv/ rudra helicopter. Thats how it should be done

I may not see face to face what happens at loc, you guys know it better . But it aches my heart when our man come in coffins. I cried when i saw story of hangpan dada and i kniw there are lot of hangpan dadas , whose story never made it to media

I dont know it all. If a person says that he/she know its all , then that person is doomed for life , everday we have something to learn

 

[Abhi9]

Tell it do the dolt who is the Smart aleck here, Should Arjun be inducted ?? Yes it should be 100%, but the induction too should have a time frame and a complete product, you just cant hide your incompetence behind Desi product logic. When the paki bought T-80 UD What was the status of our Arjun??

Please read / understand as why the delay was caused . Army kept on changing its requirements

 

[hammer head]

Your ego is bruised too a point , that it is impeding your thinking. Technology costs money. You do not even understand how difficult it is to do r and d on scant budget and still provide your armed forces a good product. In this forum or anywhere , i have not made joke about indian armys bravery or it fighting. But that does not mean you guys are absolved from any questioning or critic. Incompetencies are there due to l political burecracy , red tape and other political issues where you have to bow down to 3rd grade engineer because he is from lower caste and joined as your senior.all the red tape shit that goes into getting project sanctioned , getting new maxhines etc.

Our nations scientists are not incomopetent but thinking from their prospective should help you understand that thier jobs is not easy as giving and following straight shot orders

First sane post from your side, At no point in any of my msgs did i say that the army is Flawless the very onset i had very categorically mentioned THAT "THE ARMY TOO IS RESPONSIBLE THE WHOLE MESS" but what you failed to understand is the fact that the soldier who is standing on the ground will not neither understand nor buy the reason for the delay in giving him a Decent assault rifle because he is the one who putting his life at the LOC in the valley on daily basis, I duly understand the problems faced by our scientist in bypassing the red tapism and the Babudom but at the end of the day it is the soldier who has bear the brunt lay down his life and leave behind a family with a Thankless nation and its shrewd system. At this point why should not the Top brass of the Army act ?? why should they not buys products from outside?? If THEY LOOSE THE WAR THE GENERALS WILL BE RESPONSIBLE AND NOT THE SCIENTIST FROM A DRDO LAB WHO COULD NOT DELIVER THE PRODUCT ON TIME.

Thats the line which you have to understand if you can get through that the point of the entire heated discusssion will end here.

I am sure you have not seen a lad with a lapua round pumped inside his chest and vomiting blood from mouth and his buddy not even in a position to counter engage the in the general direction of fire with a weapon with that range and a optical device to assist, This is not fiction this is the incident which happened just a month back, go and pls tell that soldier what difficulty a scientist is facing and why should the Army not buy a product from a videshi vendor?? ( i will give his no he is currently in rehab centre with signs of depression)

You very confidently quoted when the Pigs bought T-80 UDs we ordered Tin -90s, can you please tell me what was the status of Arjun at that particular time?? Are you aware how much time it takes for tactics to develop around a machine?? What all parameters go into planning where a particular piece of machinery is gonna get fielded??

Any day and anytime LIFE of a soldier has more precedence over any bloody product be it desi or videshi i give a Rats ass to it.

The labs have to either perform or perish in todays fluid situation. You mentioned DOKLAM are you even aware what level was the escalation at?? You want to face the chinese with Sungars( bunkers) made of rocks at DOKLAM??

With all due respect to the science daans of our nation it has to be understood that their is a sense of urgency so pls get you acts together and act accordingly.

 

[su35]

First sane post from your side, At no point in any of my msgs did i say that the army is Flawless the very onset i had very categorically mentioned THAT "THE ARMY TOO IS RESPONSIBLE THE WHOLE MESS" but what you failed to understand is the fact that the soldier who is standing on the ground will not neither understand nor buy the reason for the delay in giving him a Decent assault rifle because he is the one who putting his life at the LOC in the valley on daily basis, I duly understand the problems faced by our scientist in bypassing the red tapism and the Babudom but at the end of the day it is the soldier who has bear the brunt lay down his life and leave behind a family with a Thankless nation and its shrewd system. At this point why should not the Top brass of the Army act ?? why should they not buys products from outside?? If THEY LOOSE THE WAR THE GENERALS WILL BE RESPONSIBLE AND NOT THE SCIENTIST FROM A DRDO LAB WHO COULD NOT DELIVER THE PRODUCT ON TIME.

Thats the line which you have to understand if you can get through that the point of the entire heated discusssion will end here.

I am sure you have not seen a lad with a lapua round pumped inside his chest and vomiting blood from mouth and his buddy not even in a position to counter engage the in the general direction of fire with a weapon with that range and a optical device to assist, This is not fiction this is the incident which happened just a month back, go and pls tell that soldier what difficulty a scientist is facing and why should the Army not buy a product from a videshi vendor?? ( i will give his no he is currently in rehab centre with signs of depression)

You very confidently quoted when the Pigs bought T-80 UDs we ordered Tin -90s, can you please tell me what was the status of Arjun at that particular time?? Are you aware how much time it takes for tactics to develop around a machine?? What all parameters go into planning where a particular piece of machinery is gonna get fielded??

Any day and anytime LIFE of a soldier has more precedence over any bloody product be it desi or videshi i give a Rats ass to it.

The labs have to either perform or perish in todays fluid situation. You mentioned DOKLAM are you even aware what level was the escalation at?? You want to face the chinese with Sungars( bunkers) made of rocks at DOKLAM??

With all due respect to the science daans of our nation it has to be understood that their is a sense of urgency so pls get you acts together and act accordingly.

Major problem is that OFB does not any imitative of itself to evolve the product and wait until Army lay downs requirement that's INSAS has to take so many year only to be automatic mode. Recently they got their ass wiped so they Rifle within 6 months

 

[hammer head]

Please read / understand as why the delay was caused . Army kept on changing its requirements

I am very well aware about the delay and the reasons behind it, Have you ever noticed the army has never given a rebuttal to the CLAIMS of DRDO ever thought why?? You cannot compare us with the Amrikis simply beacuse of the money involved. Do come to India na try visiting a lab and then let us all know what you feel, you will appalled at the situation and the chata hain attitude cause humari toh sarkari naukari hain aur salary fixed hain attitude.

The present govt has its strides in positive direction and the biggest boot given by them has been to the Labs and not the Army, Their is so much of filth and paid articles all over internet bad mouthing the Generals that it would boild the blood of any self respecting human being, The Generals are answerable to the the men they command and lead they have to ans their families as why his rifle jammed during the gunbattle or as to why he is still using a relic AK.

IT has been almost 20 years since Kargil war happened have we been able to change the basic assault rifle?? NO!! You tell me should their not be a time frame for induction of rifle?? If the Army inducts a AR tiday the army will run it for next two decades or so.. Is it to much if the Army says we want something compared to whats available in the market in terms of various parameters wesight, durability MULTI CALIBRE ETC?? Cant the labs not improvise on the existing products.

See what Excalibre is!! They could not even redesign the simple out body leave the future requirements the work is so shoddy you feel like spitting.

 

[Abhi9]

First sane post from your side, At no point in any of my msgs did i say that the army is Flawless the very onset i had very categorically mentioned THAT "THE ARMY TOO IS RESPONSIBLE THE WHOLE MESS" but what you failed to understand is the fact that the soldier who is standing on the ground will not neither understand nor buy the reason for the delay in giving him a Decent assault rifle because he is the one who putting his life at the LOC in the valley on daily basis, I duly understand the problems faced by our scientist in bypassing the red tapism and the Babudom but at the end of the day it is the soldier who has bear the brunt lay down his life and leave behind a family with a Thankless nation and its shrewd system. At this point why should not the Top brass of the Army act ?? why should they not buys products from outside?? If THEY LOOSE THE WAR THE GENERALS WILL BE RESPONSIBLE AND NOT THE SCIENTIST FROM A DRDO LAB WHO COULD NOT DELIVER THE PRODUCT ON TIME.

Thats the line which you have to understand if you can get through that the point of the entire heated discusssion will end here.

I am sure you have not seen a lad with a lapua round pumped inside his chest and vomiting blood from mouth and his buddy not even in a position to counter engage the in the general direction of fire with a weapon with that range and a optical device to assist, This is not fiction this is the incident which happened just a month back, go and pls tell that soldier what difficulty a scientist is facing and why should the Army not buy a product from a videshi vendor?? ( i will give his no he is currently in rehab centre with signs of depression)

You very confidently quoted when the Pigs bought T-80 UDs we ordered Tin -90s, can you please tell me what was the status of Arjun at that particular time?? Are you aware how much time it takes for tactics to develop around a machine?? What all parameters go into planning where a particular piece of machinery is gonna get fielded??

Any day and anytime LIFE of a soldier has more precedence over any bloody product be it desi or videshi i give a Rats ass to it.

The labs have to either perform or perish in todays fluid situation. You mentioned DOKLAM are you even aware what level was the escalation at?? You want to face the chinese with Sungars( bunkers) made of rocks at DOKLAM??

With all due respect to the science daans of our nation it has to be understood that their is a sense of urgency so pls get you acts together and act accordingly.

Josh, is an important word in your dictionary, so is ours. When the end user accepts an indian product , its the biggest morale booster for a scie tist/ engineer . That my army is using a product developed by me . If army generals can stick to their words and not keept on changing finish lines and work in tandem with indian scientist and not swayed by arms mafia. Things will get better .

By the way, i am not a fat dolt. I Did go to 19th ssb allahbad post cds. Did not clear post end . Never tried again.

 

[hammer head]

Its a shame that the training schools of the army just train you on how to remove the STOPPAGES OF A RIFLE instead of focusing on the training aspects and their are so many of the problems associated with the Rifle.

 

[su35]

See what Excalibre is!! They could not even redesign the simple out body leave the future requirements the work is so shoddy you feel like spitting.

What is problem with that one ?? It is already in service with Assam RIfle and CRPF?

 

[Abhi9]

Maybe the pointing fingers should stop, and we should work with synergy towards a common objective.

 

[hammer head]

Josh, is an important word in your dictionary, so is ours. When the end user accepts an indian product , its the biggest morale booster for a scie tist/ engineer . That my army is using a product developed by me . If army generals can stick to their words and not keept on changing finish lines and work in tandem with indian scientist and not swayed by arms mafia. Things will get better .

By the way, i am not a fat dolt. I Did go to 19th ssb allahbad post cds. Did not clear post end . Never tried again.

Let me tell you that the Army had posted a full fleged colonel saaab with the lab who happens to be a teachie for helping the labs for the above mentioned point of urs but still no sign of any positive outcome. You are talking about equipping the largest Army on the Planet, last time you had equipped it with INSAS, which the Army used despite problems please accept this. Army too wants a weapons which is desi but not at the cost of quality.

 

[Abhi9]

Let me tell you that the Army had posted a full fleged colonel saaab with the lab who happens to be a teachie for helping the labs for the above mentioned point of urs but still no sign of any positive outcome. You are talking about equipping the largest Army on the Planet, last time you had equipped it with INSAS, which the Army used despite problems please accept this. Army too wants a weapons which is desi but not at the cost of quality.

Whole lot needs to be on drdo and ofb end too. Comittment to quality and improving production techniques. Change is happening but not a pace that we would like to see. Intricate complexeties built into our indian system is a block. But i see things evolving as the old way of doing things is shelved and more effecient ways and young scientists work with new ways. Healing deep trust issues takes time

Drdo has no control over production procedures and end quality. mass production samples needs to be taken up with production agencies rather blaming drdo. Personally i think private manufacturing should be involved and drdo should work on cutting edge futuristic tech

 

[hammer head]

Whole lot needs to be on drdo and ofb end too. Comittment to quality and improving production techniques. Change is happening but not a pace that we would like to see. Intricate complexeties built into our indian system is a block. But i see things evolving as the old way of doing things is shelved and more effecient ways and young scientists work with new ways. Healing deep trust issues takes time

Drdo has no control over production procedures and end quality. mass production samples needs to be taken up with production agencies rather blaming drdo. Personally i think private manufacturing should be involved and drdo should work on cutting edge futuristic tech

Valid point, But your enemy will not be waiting for your final product and in Gen Maliks words "We will have to fight with whatever we have"

 

[su35]

Let me tell you that the Army had posted a full fleged colonel saaab with the lab who happens to be a teachie for helping the labs for the above mentioned point of urs but still no sign of any positive outcome. You are talking about equipping the largest Army on the Planet, last time you had equipped it with INSAS, which the Army used despite problems please accept this. Army too wants a weapons which is desi but not at the cost of quality.

We know Amry never wanted INSAS, we were running short in Forex hence forced to accept that one, and regarding problem of INSAS and developmental history of other rifle are discussed multiple time In INSAS thread, please check that. You may get your answer there.

Just one question, why Army imported Aks from Bulgaria and Romania without rails or optics, they are spending double amount getting it FAB modified, while Army folly One bullet One enemy principle, Is that not an riony??

I request mod to take this discussion to Appropriate thread
Thank you

 

[pankaj nema]

@Abhi9 Please understand that in some weapon systems we Cannot wait for ever for DRDO to get it right

Operational preparedness is any day More important

The Army is answerable to the people and the Govt that
WHY it cannot retaliate against the enemy

For example after 26/11 ; Army had said that it was not prepared

DRDO has had many successes too

But we could not have waited for the Arjun tank endlessly

By the way Arjun Tanks weight is an issue

The Logistics trail and Cost goes up 2.5 Times In case of Arjun as compared to T 90

Plus The Tanks have to Move inside Pakistan

Will Pakistani Bridges Be able to withstand Arjun' s weight

The Pakistani Bridges are meant for taking the weight of AL Khalid and T 80

Our Sniper Gun weakness has been exposed

do you also want more soldiers to die for want of a Good Assault rifle