Ancient Indian Empires and Weapons

Azaad

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Far left is a proper sword blade. This might be the earliest sword found in India.
Unfortunately a lot of Harappan era sites & pre Harappan era sites in eastern India can't be excavated given they're prevalent in or under dense population centres. These are apart from the ones which are being neglected / destroyed thru sheer apathy even today. If the Puranas , Vedas especially Rg Veda & The Epics are any clue population dispersal is essentially an east to west phenomena.

This especially includes the Vedic Ailas or Chandravanshis whose sub tribe the Bharatas journey has been traced from Varanasi to western UP / Haryana / Delhi / South East Punjab / NE Rajasthan the areas watered by the Saraswati traditionally , now accepted as the place where the Rg Veda was likely composed & the setting of the first war recorded in the Rg Veda - the Dasarajna War or War of The 10 Kings.
 

Azaad

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Can you tell me where this is from?
Boss , if you can't create new threads, I don't see what's preventing you from re creating the old ones. Lot's of new ones have come thru. They need guidance. You ought to help them
 

AUSTERLITZ

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Boss , if you can't create new threads, I don't see what's preventing you from re creating the old ones. Lot's of new ones have come thru. They need guidance. You ought to help them
I'm busy with RL but will try.
 

GaudaNaresh

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Mauryan India

View attachment 216513

Capital: Pataliputra
Language: Sanskrit(literary and academic), Magadhi Prakrit(vernacular)
Area: 5.2-5.5 million sq kms
Correction: Magadhi India. Not mauryan india. The empire was empire of Magadh. Not Mauryan Empire.
Don't fall for the anglo trick of fragmenting Indian history by dynasty. They ALL ruled from Magadh, with capital of Rajagriha/Pataliputra. Thus they are all part of Magadh empire.
You'll notice that the westoids say 'Roman Empire'. Because its based out of Rome and presents a continuous period of rulership. Not Julio-Claudian empire, Flavian Empire, Nervan-Antonine Empire, etc.

Magadh is the most consequential empire in history of India, lasting from 550s BCE - 30 BCE. Modern India exists due to Magadh. Its the first and longest lasting empire that forged a pan-Indian mentality, that ALL subsequent native empires in history of India has tried to emulate.
 

GaudaNaresh

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Another point of note : virtually ALL maps & youtube videos that show the expansion of Magadh from 550s BCE to 250 BCE ( peak of Magadh territorial span) shows the expansion of magadh's CORE domain.

The expansion of Magadh happened under Bimbisar, around 530 BCE, when he annexed Anga ( Bhagalpur region) and recieved Kashi in dowry around that time frame.
His Son Ajatshatru annexed Kaushal, Videha & vajjia by 470 BCE - meaning entirity of Bihar & most of UP was now core Magadhi territory, as well as establishing vassalhood over almost all of the Ganges basin.

From this point onwards, for the next 100-125 years, the core territory of Magadh then expanded to include Madhya Pradesh ( Avanti) during the Shishunag dynasty, with most of the gangetic valley remaining vassals of the Magadh empire ( periodically free of Magadhi overlordship during rulership crisis/weak rulership).

Then came a seismic shift & Magadh expanded MASSIVELY - under the famed Mahapadma Nand, who is recorded in a LOT of Indian sources - from rock cut inscriptions to literature and who is often referred to as 'ekachtra' - the ONE ruler.What Mahapadma did, was expand Magadh's core territory to include pretty much ALL of north India & Orissa, replacing/exterminating their ruling dynasties and planting governors in their stead.
This model continued under the Mauryas, Shungas & Kanva dynasty period, or the 350s BCE-30 BCE later half of the Magadhi empire period.
 

GaudaNaresh

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An interesting development happens to Indian history after the Magadhi era : while ALL subsequent native empires of India aspired to follow the Magadh's conquest of ALL of jambhudwip (Indian subcontinent), they ALL resorted to the pre- Mahapadma period of vassalisation model, instead of annexation model.

The cause of this shift is speculative, but an explanation that makes sense to me is as follows:

The most conventional argument against vassalising ruling dynasties is that when your own dynasty becomes weak or undergoes succession crisis ( which includes a juvenile king under guardianship), the vassalised dynasties tend to break away and you have to wage war again to bring them under your control.
Indeed, this may've served as the prime motivation of Mahapadma to annex the whole goddamn ganges basin.
Annexed territories, on paper, tend not to break away under the slightest succession problems or uncertainty.
But this only works, when the annexed territories have cultural & linguistic conformity and are not composed of heterogenous culture zones.
Plus, as the experience of the post Ashokan Mauryan dynasty showed, annexed territories' governors are also prone to breaking away if central rulership is weak.

However, vassalised territories offer one benefit over annexed territories and that is,more efficient local rulership: the centre isn't directly in control of appointing & dismissing & keeping an eye on distant local rulership, that task is delegated to the local dynasty - who if incompetent, simply has their ruler replaced ( most likely by their next generation). The feudal nature of this period also makes the locals less likely to rebel, as their rulership is done by their own local administration, rather than a governor appointed from distant lands.

This is why, in my opinion, all subsequent Indian dynasties show annexation tendencies over a culturally homogenous region - such as the Guptas, Pratiharas, Pals, Chandelas etc ( who all try to/succeed in annexing the indo-gangetic basin) or even in the south, where the Karnata dynasties such as Chalukyas, Rashtrakutas, etc annex the Kannada territories only, while establishing vassalhood over lands that have a differing culture from them.
Indeed, to my knowledge, in the entire post-Magadhi period, the only notable 'culturally different' area directly annexed into the core territory of an empire is by Chandragupta Vikramaditya, who annexed Gujarat into his empire after the destruction of the Western kshatrapa dynasty.

Just my two cents.
 

GaudaNaresh

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Correction: Magadhi India. Not mauryan india. The empire was empire of Magadh. Not Mauryan Empire.
Don't fall for the anglo trick of fragmenting Indian history by dynasty. They ALL ruled from Magadh, with capital of Rajagriha/Pataliputra. Thus they are all part of Magadh empire.
You'll notice that the westoids say 'Roman Empire'. Because its based out of Rome and presents a continuous period of rulership. Not Julio-Claudian empire, Flavian Empire, Nervan-Antonine Empire, etc.

Magadh is the most consequential empire in history of India, lasting from 550s BCE - 30 BCE. Modern India exists due to Magadh. Its the first and longest lasting empire that forged a pan-Indian mentality, that ALL subsequent native empires in history of India has tried to emulate.
On a similar note, i do not take the view of Badami Chalukyas, Rashtrakuta empire and Western Chalukya empire.
I take the view of Karnata empire, that lasted from 500 CE to 1200 CE.
This period saw the rule of three dynasties - Vatapi(Badami) Chalukyas, Rashtrakutas & Western Chalukyas.
They were ALL kannada dynasties, with their core in Kannada region, patronising Sanskrit & Kannada languages as the two specific languages of the court and in the case of Rashtrakutas & Western Chalukyas, BOTH had the same capital : Manyakheth. Western Chalukyas moved their to Kalyani ( or Basavkalyan) after ruling from Manyakheth around 1050 CE, or around 75 years after the replacement of the Rashtrakutas.

Same with the Tamil empire - its not Chola and Pandya empire, but Tamil Empire, that started around 900 CE under Paratanka Chola & ended with the Pandyan civil war in 1315-1320 CE period.
 

Azaad

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On a similar note, i do not take the view of Badami Chalukyas, Rashtrakuta empire and Western Chalukya empire.
I take the view of Karnata empire, that lasted from 500 CE to 1200 CE.
This period saw the rule of three dynasties - Vatapi(Badami) Chalukyas, Rashtrakutas & Western Chalukyas.
They were ALL kannada dynasties, with their core in Kannada region, patronising Sanskrit & Kannada languages as the two specific languages of the court and in the case of Rashtrakutas & Western Chalukyas, BOTH had the same capital : Manyakheth. Western Chalukyas moved their to Kalyani ( or Basavkalyan) after ruling from Manyakheth around 1050 CE, or around 75 years after the replacement of the Rashtrakutas.

Same with the Tamil empire - its not Chola and Pandya empire, but Tamil Empire, that started around 900 CE under Paratanka Chola & ended with the Pandyan civil war in 1315-1320 CE period.
As per your description , the Sena Empire was formed by feudatories of the Karnata region namely the Rashtrakutas but you already know that . Hence should we call the Senas a Karnata dynasty & by extension Bongo an extension of Karnataka ? If not why not? Btw they were instrumental in promoting Bangla as their court language & lingua franca.
 

GaudaNaresh

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As per your description , the Sena Empire was formed by feudatories of the Karnata region namely the Rashtrakutas but you already know that . Hence should we call the Senas a Karnata dynasty & by extension Bongo an extension of Karnataka ? If not why not? Btw they were instrumental in promoting Bangla as their court language & lingua franca.
It isnt about the dynasty alone. its about continuity of political authority, rulership and (relatively) seamless transition from dynasty to dynasty that is integrated into the said host cultural continuum and promotes it.

Senas in Bengal are akin to Kushans - integrated into the host polity & culture, promoting it than their native origins. As such, Kushans are seen as an Indian dynasty, not a Indo-Chinese dynasty from the Tarim basin.
Or you can see them as the modern day House of Windsor ( the ruling house in UK) - they are actually German ( from House of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha) but represent a Kushan-like integration into the host culture.

Also, to my knowledge, Senas didn't ever hold a feudatory status with the Karnata kingdom- they held it under the Pals. Yes, Ballal Sen married a Chalukya princess, but that itself leans more towards the 'distant ally' angle more than a vassal, as its not very common for the ruling royal line to marry downwards into a feudatory line, unless the feudatory was quite powerful in their own right and who's displeasure would risk splitting the empire.
 

Jedi Operator

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Some historically accurate representation of Indian soilders in the Medivial Ages. @NoobWannaLearn @binayak95 @DumbPilot @Kumaoni give it a look

1712411039284.png


An Alxon-Hunnic cavalryman, infantryman from the Ganges plain, infantry archer from central India, and an infantryman from the deep south of India.

1712411094228.png

A Hindu-shahi nobleman fights an infantryman from Bengal or Orissa and a war-elephant from northern India, notice how warriors from Bengal/Orissa (Kalinga) are still very much dressed like the ancient times because the region had almost been untouched by any northern invaders or other Indian rulers

1712411238812.png

A Kashmiri lady with an armoured cavalryman from Kasmir and infantry archer from north-western India before Islamic invasions in Kashmir

1712411298549.png

A Gond tribal warrior watches a passing Hoysala armoured war-elephant and two-wheeled transport wagon drawn by two oxen.
(Notice the hero stone, bottom right next to the tribal, sort of like an early memorial with citations

1712411429461.png

A Hindu nobleman from south-central India compares his weapons and equipment with a central Indian cavalryman, while their horses are held by a Muslim mercenary.
 

DumbPilot

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Some historically accurate representation of Indian soilders in the Medivial Ages. @NoobWannaLearn @binayak95 @DumbPilot @Kumaoni give it a look

View attachment 247364

An Alxon-Hunnic cavalryman, infantryman from the Ganges plain, infantry archer from central India, and an infantryman from the deep south of India.

View attachment 247366
A Hindu-shahi nobleman fights an infantryman from Bengal or Orissa and a war-elephant from northern India, notice how warriors from Bengal/Orissa (Kalinga) are still very much dressed like the ancient times because the region had almost been untouched by any northern invaders or other Indian rulers

View attachment 247367
A Kashmiri lady with an armoured cavalryman from Kasmir and infantry archer from north-western India before Islamic invasions in Kashmir

View attachment 247368
A Gond tribal warrior watches a passing Hoysala armoured war-elephant and two-wheeled transport wagon drawn by two oxen.
(Notice the hero stone, bottom right next to the tribal, sort of like an early memorial with citations

View attachment 247369
A Hindu nobleman from south-central India compares his weapons and equipment with a central Indian cavalryman, while their horses are held by a Muslim mercenary.
Where did you get the source? It's hard finding text on ancient Indian military and tactics/"ORBAT" etc
 

Crazywithmath

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Chandraketugarh .

FYI , @Tactical Doge ; @Love Charger
To the members, consider visiting this site (located near Berachanpa, Barasat; to the northen fringe of Kolkata proper) if you ever happen to be in Kolkata. A true historical marvel (and a criminally neglected one at that) - something not too many people are aware of, unfortunately.
 

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