AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[p2prada]

WTH are you talking about, of course it does have serpentine air intakes. No configuration of AMCA was without serpentine intakes.

Ah, now I am a bit disappointed.

People, you can see here how it eats up space in the fuselage.

Anyway, Twinblade, is it certain that AMCA will be an air superiority aircraft?

 

[ersakthivel]

Ah, now I am a bit disappointed.

People, you can see here how it eats up space in the fuselage.

Anyway, Twinblade, is it certain that AMCA will be an air superiority aircraft?

All modern fighters are air superiority first and ground role added next types.

All 5th gen stealths with 17 -20 ton weight category don't carry 8 ton weapons in their internal weapon bay

Then what is the point of creating full stealth compliant 5th gen fighter?

It was IAf demands for a hundred percent stealth which they did not give to PAKFA resulted in this third design.

Do you know that or not?

 

[Dhiraj Thakur]

can anyone give me...link for this discovery documentery

 

[ersakthivel]

Broadsword: "There are no serious technology challenges ahead" says PS Subramanyam, Director ADA

Q. After the Tejas, ADA has been pushing hard for a programme to develop an Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA)? Where is that?

There is no approved programme yet, but the DRDO had approved a feasibility study which we have done. We are trying to arrive at the specifications of an engine that can give us supercruise (i.e. flying at supersonic without afterburner) but that kind of engine is not readily available. So we are deliberating on whether we should start designing an engine ab initio, or improve upon an existing engine. The IAF is very keen on the AMCA.

Q. How long would this take to enter service?

The AMCA would need 7-10 years for development, and so would enter production only in the mid-2020s. We would require time for building prototypes, stabilising the design, establishing a production line. We would gain expertise from the (Indo-Russian) Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) programme.

SO AMCA program has not yet been approved till now, With DRDO funds ADA has done a feasibility study,

SO in future people should not quote the AMCA which was conceptualized in 2002 (in the form of now dropped tail less MCA ) is till dragging on for thirty years,

The estimate now is 7 to 8 years for design and production in mid 2020s ,i.e 2025.

 

[Kyubi]

Broadsword: "There are no serious technology challenges ahead" says PS Subramanyam, Director ADA


SO AMCA program has not yet been approved till now, With DRDO funds ADA has done a feasibility study,

SO in future people should not quote the AMCA which was conceptualized in 2002 (in the form of now dropped tail less MCA ) is till dragging on for thirty years,

The estimate now is 7 to 8 years for design and production in mid 2020s ,i.e 2025.

This post should be used in future to ward away the trolls who i am sure will cry hoarse over AMCA's time line .

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

still debating about the engine and design aspects.may be next government can bring in some urgency into these people.

 

[p2prada]

AMCA is on indefinite hold.

It would have been possible to start had the engine negotiations gone well. Now, a new tender is out, so for the next two years we will be starting into the skies twiddling our thumbs before a decision is made.

GTRE wanted $2 Billion to make a new engine with foreign support a few years ago. Now, it could be much more.

Good to know there will be a relation with the FGFA program.

 

[ersakthivel]

AMCA is on indefinite hold.

It would have been possible to start had the engine negotiations gone well. Now, a new tender is out, so for the next two years we will be starting into the skies twiddling our thumbs before a decision is made.

GTRE wanted $2 Billion to make a new engine with foreign support a few years ago. Now, it could be much more.

Good to know there will be a relation with the FGFA program.

With IOC for tejas cleared and deign of tejas mk-2 being frozen by 2014 march no one is going to look at the skies and sit fiddling their thumbs,

Already with DRDO's own funding prelim studies are at an advanced stage as per DG for aeronautics ADA and CEMILAC chief Mr. Tamil Mani's statement in press.

NAL has already finalized the prelim aerodynamic config,

In fact it never stopped as the team doing it was entirely different one than the team working with ADA and HAL for tejas mk-1

 

[sayareakd]

How much time it will take them to prove airframe with the existing tech developed for LCA ?

They should make at least one such airframe and fly it with US engine to test the concept.

 

[DivineHeretic]

How much time it will take them to prove airframe with the existing tech developed for LCA ?

They should make at least one such airframe and fly it with US engine to test the concept.

The way I see it, airframe is pretty low on the list right now. We do not even have a tentative idea of the dimensions of the radar, the IRST, the weapon bay, the fuel tank capacity and finally, the dimensions of the engine required to generate super cruise.

Only after these specifications are finalized can any accurate airframe be built. Till then, the wind tunnel models are the best bet for refining aerodynamic performances.

 

[DivineHeretic]

RAM, composite and ceramic blades are OK. Though I have no idea about India's RAM capabilities

But aren't radar blockers much more inefficient than serpentine intake? I gather that Serpentine intakes work pretty well if the curve is gradual over at least 3-4m, but create a choke if there is sharp curve in a higher gradient.

About the serpentine intake,

Its not a special case for a serpentine section. Its a basic understanding of fluid dynamics. Any fluid, be it liquid of gas, prefers a gradual change in direction. In case of a sharp or sudden change in direction, the fluid tends to form vortex/eddy currents at the edges of the tube/channel thereby reducing the space available for fluid to pass through to the next section, thus the choke.

Note that I stated gradual change in direction and not gradual curve. The speed of the fluid relative to the tube/channel will decide if the curve is sharp of gradual. Further the fluid dynamics is different at transonic regions, so I expect additional resistance to air flow at such speeds.

 

[p2prada]

How much time it will take them to prove airframe with the existing tech developed for LCA ?

Normally something like AMCA should take 5000 hours of flight testing.

LCA had some 2000 odd test points to clear for IOC and FOC. That needs 2500 flight hours of tests. AMCA should have around 10 or 20 times more test points. It gets easier because AMCA can stay in the air longer than LCA can. So, that helps.

There is benefit from having tested LCA, and that experience helps. But, FGFA flight tests will be more important for AMCA. So, as HAL said, FGFA also needs 5000 hours of testing and HAL would have taken 15 years going alone instead of 5 - 6 years with Russian help. With the LCA and FGFA experience, AMCA prototypes can fly more than LCA has.

F-35 has over 60000 test points. To date they have finished 11000 hours and around 12000 test points. Another 48000 test points are pending. But not all of the 11000 hours are flight tests because of concurrency.

Each LCA flight is equivalent to staying in the air for 30 minutes on an average. Each F-35 flight lasts for 2 hours or more on average. For PAKFA, it would be 2.5 - 3 hours on average. So, AMCA flight tests would be much faster than LCA's but the work involved is also more.

They should make at least one such airframe and fly it with US engine to test the concept.

The first two airframes would be tech demonstrators. It is possible flight tests will happen with US or European engines, but without finalizing specs for the Kaveri K-10, the project will be in a limbo. Only after the engine specs and design are finalized can they start the design phase. In LCA's case, LCA's main design phase started a few years after Kaveri specs and design were finalized. The problem is we just launched the tender for an engine partner (again). It should take a year or two before all the necessary specs are finalized (again) because it depends on the technology the foreign partner is willing to provide.

Project start date to IOC should take 16 years. R&D phase is yet to be approved. And approval will happen after engine specs are finalized.

 

[ersakthivel]

5000 flight hours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How much did PAKFA do till today, which is about to achieve IOC early next year,

hardly 500 test flights till date,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ADA Dg went on record saying that about 500 of the 2500 test flights of tejas was to set up a database of flight control laws for fly by wire software which will be common to all RSS platforms of future,

Seems people haven't taken care to note that,

Also a lot of test flights on tejas had to be duplicated due to the FSED phase-II and need to revalidate the changed engine, radar and missiles components midway as per IAF's wish.

So basing tejas's 13 year long 2500 test flights which was primarily due to very slow production of LSPs and PVs from obsolete HAL production lines is a grave mistake,

Who told people that if a single engined tejas had 2000 test points the double engined AMCA is supposed to have 5000 test points?

First of all we don't know the exact number of test points on tejas itself.

Since the tejas production line is available the AMCA prototypes can be turned out much faster joining the test flight team. So ADA chief is correct in saying that due to the experience generated in tejas program they can get AMCA ready for production by 2025, i.e mid-2020.

but the most critical aspect is IAF should not change the ASR in a major way midway through the program. if it does then then no one can say when will AMCA join IAF?

F-35s problems and huge number of test points are due to the fact of very complex lift fan tech in it.We can not apply that to a conventional 5th gen airframe of AMCA.

 

[cobra commando]

'Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft by 2018"² : DRDO


'Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft by 2018' - The New Indian Express

 

[Twinblade]

'Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft by 2018"² : DRDO


'Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft by 2018' - The New Indian Express

Sweet.

10 characters

 

[Kyubi]

Sweet.

10 characters

Does it mean a TD-1 will be ready???

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

Does it mean a TD-1 will be ready???

i think so

 

[A chauhan]

Does it mean a TD-1 will be ready???

Off course ! It'll be a TD.

 

[Kyubi]

Off course ! It'll be a TD.

Well sir that would be a stupendous achievement !!!

 

[makmohan]

With FGFA and Aura coming into IAF and the arrival of Chinas first aircraft carrier with more capable fighters, MoD understood that the real requirement for a new stealth fighter is in IN and that N-LCA is not enough for Indias naval security. Therefor they re-consider the N-LCA development and assigned ADA and HAL to develop a naval AMCA, based on the experience gained from the N-LCA Tech Demonstrator and the FGFA co-development.
As part of the Rafale procurement, MoD demands Dassault to provide design and navalising assistance, to make AMCA able to take off via catapults and ski-jumps, similar to Rafale. Here are few designs that they are working on...

http://on.fb.me/1fg14KB