AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Blademaster]

why the fck our military planners r so fckin stupid… I reiterate if china is a poisonous snake… USA is a demonic evil entity…

Tell that to the pro US Indian posters on this forum who supports US on anything including Ukraine etc.

 

[BON PLAN]

Home Meta-defense.fr - Defense news and analysis

All the defense news and analyses, in Europe and around the world, on Meta-defense.fr

meta-defense.fr

Guys, here is a suggestion: Since Sweden has left Team tempest, why can't we invite Saab to partner us for development of AMCA?

1. F-414 Engine is already common for both Tejas mk2 and Gripen-E. New Engine infrastructure investment can be eliminated for Sweden.
2. Sweden has a timeline of 2031 to decide on Gripen c/d replacement platform. So SAAB has enough time to form a proper partnership and offer AMCA as replacement.
3. SAAB has quite a lot of infrastructure for aviation development. They are no slouches in R&D as well as manufacture of aviation equipment. Instead of sending AMCA to France for intake testing and such, Swedish facilities can be used as part of Sweden's development work share.
4. Sweden does not have its own FBW technology. It would be a good opportunity to built upon our indigenous FBW and make it export competitive.
5. SAAB can work on integrating foreign weapons like MBDA and AMRAAMs. This could be part of their work share. Since Sweden will join NATO, they will need the aircraft to be compatible with NATO weapons. The aircraft will automatically become NATO compatible for future export prospects.
6. Regarding project management, SAAB and DRDO/HAL proposing a time-line for development would make for a more compelling case compared to just HAL/DRDO alone.
7. SAAB built a very cost effective platform the Gripen with very quick turnaround times. If that team works with HAL, the manufacturing and maintenance practices will be very economical as well as practical.
8. The loyal wingman drone can be developed individually if needed or the Swedish AMCA version can have open architecture to integrate with any Europeon drone. Thus drone development cost can be eliminated to keep the program economical.

I see SAAB as a natural partner for India to develop AMCA especially since they don't have any mature comparable programs and they can't develop one on their own without blowing the bank. South Korea might have been a partner if not for the fact that they are also the competition for both India's AMCA and sweden's Gripen-E.

Main problem for India and Sweden : no engine available, and no mature engine technological base. So no way.

 

[spacemarine2023]

Main problem for India and Sweden : no engine available, and no mature engine technological base. So no way.

we have france with mature engine technological base ready to sell to even china for the right amount, the engine secrets shared to france by GE on behest of US govt

 

[FalconSlayers]

 

[BON PLAN]

we have france with mature engine technological base ready to sell to even china for the right amount, the engine secrets shared to france by GE on behest of US govt

What are the french technologies sold to china?
CFM engines are made of hot US core, only made by GE and french cold part, only made by Safran. That's all. Safran is fully independant for its own hot core, ass seen on M88, and on the next gen engine for SCAF fighter.

 

[spacemarine2023]

What are the french technologies sold to china?
CFM engines are made of hot US core, only made by GE and french cold part, only made by Safran. That's all. Safran is fully independant for its own hot core, ass seen on M88, and on the next gen engine for SCAF fighter.

The WZ-16 Engine

 

[The Maverick]

I know things have changed a lot but we really need this project to kick start asap
Plaaf is fielding 150 j20 fifth gen fighters today and will have 500 by 2030 ...

Realistically we are two decades behind this
Amca first squadron 2040

 

[Azaad]

 

[BON PLAN]

The WZ-16 Engine

Are you serious?
wz-16 is not a fighter engine, "just" a helo turbine.
In fact WZ-16 is more known as... Ardiden 3.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

 

[Illusive]

Why do I have this feeling that Chinese 6th gen prototype is gonna come out before our 5th gen.

 

[raju1982]

Why do I have this feeling that Chinese 6th gen prototype is gonna come out before our 5th gen.

View attachment 232378

Chinese 6th gen fighter will be inducted before AMCA makes first flight, and GoI will claim it is 7th gen. Then there will be a aerial battle over Himachal, few MKI/Rafales downed by PLAAF's stealth UCAVs and 5th/6th gen fighters, our honourable Defence minsiter will run to Washington DC for F-35 "emmergency buy".


The 4 trillion ecenomy and 1.4 billion people are good for nothing without proper use of firepower. Our military planners are childish gamers. they learn after every battle karabakh, ukraine, gaza. while major militaries like China, USA, UK plan in advance.
we are always reactive. balakot, kargil, galwan, doklam... we understood we are not prepared for those wars. We needed to mobalize our massive population on social media to counter pork/chinese propagandas which came with concrete photos like our bombs kolled crows or massive number of oir soldiers taken hostages. shame shame shame on Modi.

 

[Super Flanker]

It's been a long time since I posted on this thread but I wanted to speak about the missile carrying capacity of the AMCA. As the AMCA is projected to be a fifth generation fighter, it makes more sense to first take a glance at current fifth generation aircraft such as F-22, J-20, F-35, Su-57 that are in operational service with various Airforces around the world.

1. F-22: In air-to-air configuration, the F-22 can carry a total of 8 AAM, that is six AIM-120 AMRAAMS & two AIM-9 Sidewinders.

2. J-20: The J-20 can carry a total of 6 AAM, that is either 4 medium/long-range AAMs in the main bay and 1 short-range missile in each side weapon bay.

3. Su-57: The amount of missiles that Su-57 can carry is the same as that of J-20 that is the Su-57 can carry four long range AAMs and two Short range AAMs.

4. F-35: In air to air configuration, the F-35's primary AAM is the AIM-120C, of which it can carry 4 of in its weapons bays, this is the current configuration of F-35, in the future when the newer block of F-35 comes, the F-35 will be able to carry 6 AAM courtesy "Sidekick Weopons bay", so after the newer block upgrade, F-35 will be able to carry as many missiles as J-20 and Su-57, while all three will still lag behind F-22 in terms of maximum missile capacity.

So as far fifth generation fighters are concerned, the F-22 has highest missile carrying capacity of any fifth generation fighter in existence. I have not taken J-31/J-35 or Su-75 in the comparison because I don't want to discuss about those, I don't know anything about J-31/J-35 and Su-75 is still on paper only though we do have figures for their missile load out.

So now let's speak about AMCA: So how many missiles will AMCA be able to carry internally? From what I have heard, the AMCA will be able to carry 4 to 6 missiles, but there was a source which said that the mark-1 work carry 4 AAM. To be honest, this is not bad, see the F-35 in its current configuration can carry just 4 AAM, but in subsequent block will be able to carry 6 AAM. The same can be expected from the AMCA, the AMCA Mark-2 can be expected to have a missile carrying capacity of 6 to 8 AAMs. I simply cannot find much information about the AMCA's AAM capacity/configuration. I sincerely hope that the AMCA MK-1 would be able to carry 6 AAM and the subsequent Mk-2 would be able to carry 8 AAM because for a fighter coming out in the early 2030s, even be it a fifth generation plane, anything less than 4 AAMs would be kinda unacceptable to me. Fingers crossed on this.

 

[johnj]

It's been a long time since I posted on this thread but I wanted to speak about the missile carrying capacity of the AMCA. As the AMCA is projected to be a fifth generation fighter, it makes more sense to first take a glance at current fifth generation aircraft such as F-22, J-20, F-35, Su-57 that are in operational service with various Airforces around the world.

1. F-22: In air-to-air configuration, the F-22 can carry a total of 8 AAM, that is six AIM-120 AMRAAMS & two AIM-9 Sidewinders.
View attachment 233084

2. J-20: The J-20 can carry a total of 6 AAM, that is either 4 medium/long-range AAMs in the main bay and 1 short-range missile in each side weapon bay.
View attachment 233086


3. Su-57: The amount of missiles that Su-57 can carry is the same as that of J-20 that is the Su-57 can carry four long range AAMs and two Short range AAMs.
View attachment 233081

4. F-35: In air to air configuration, the F-35's primary AAM is the AIM-120C, of which it can carry 4 of in its weapons bays, this is the current configuration of F-35, in the future when the newer block of F-35 comes, the F-35 will be able to carry 6 AAM courtesy "Sidekick Weopons bay", so after the newer block upgrade, F-35 will be able to carry as many missiles as J-20 and Su-57, while all three will still lag behind F-22 in terms of maximum missile capacity.
View attachment 233085

So as far fifth generation fighters are concerned, the F-22 has highest missile carrying capacity of any fifth generation fighter in existence. I have not taken J-31/J-35 or Su-75 in the comparison because I don't want to discuss about those, I don't know anything about J-31/J-35 and Su-75 is still on paper only though we do have figures for their missile load out.

So now let's speak about AMCA: So how many missiles will AMCA be able to carry internally? From what I have heard, the AMCA will be able to carry 4 to 6 missiles, but there was a source which said that the mark-1 work carry 4 AAM. To be honest, this is not bad, see the F-35 in its current configuration can carry just 4 AAM, but in subsequent block will be able to carry 6 AAM. The same can be expected from the AMCA, the AMCA Mark-2 can be expected to have a missile carrying capacity of 6 to 8 AAMs. I simply cannot find much information about the AMCA's AAM capacity/configuration. I sincerely hope that the AMCA MK-1 would be able to carry 6 AAM and the subsequent Mk-2 would be able to carry 8 AAM because for a fighter coming out in the early 2030s, even be it a fifth generation plane, anything less than 4 AAMs would be kinda unacceptable to me. Fingers crossed on this.

You totally missed the MONSTER

Only F35 is capable of carrying MONSTER 2000 Pound Smart Bomb JDAM, F35 main weapon bay is so big it can carry 2 BVR missiles ,

 

[Eagle Eye]

What's the IAF suggestion to ADA/HAL in AMCA abt internal bays like weight, Number of missles & bombs?

 

[Super Flanker]

You totally missed the MONSTER
View attachment 233197
Only F35 is capable of carrying MONSTER 2000 Pound Smart Bomb JDAM, F35 main weapon bay is so big it can carry 2 BVR missiles , View attachment 233199

In my previous post I was discussing only about the max load out of AAMs of contemporary 5th generation fighters such as Su-57, J-20, F-22 etc. That is why I kept on stressing on the term "missile", though I do not mean to say that a missile is only a weapon that can destroy aerial targets. To be honest, the maximum load of weopons that any fighter jet can carry is limited by what it's individual pylon can carry, max weight of any fighter doesn't mean it can carry that many weapons actually.

 

[johnj]

In my previous post I was discussing only about the max load out of AAMs of contemporary 5th generation fighters such as Su-57, J-20, F-22 etc. That is why I kept on stressing on the term "missile", though I do not mean to say that a missile is only a weapon that can destroy aerial targets. To be honest, the maximum load of weopons that any fighter jet can carry is limited by what it's individual pylon can carry, max weight of any fighter doesn't mean it can carry that many weapons actually.

You missing the basic/big point here, ie IWB design. F35 weapons bay is unique, its so big & huge, it can two munitions side by side, no other 5th gen [may be except su75] having such capacity
FYI - Chinese/Russia considering increasing BVR missile in IWB to 6 from 4 matching F22 and US having theories to increase 14 AAM in F22 IWB.
We both talking about same thing IWB of 5th gen stealth aircraft, but you missed the difference b/w f35 IWB vs rest, it unique that is why it is capable sidekick, on the other hand rest may be capable half sidekick
I don't think AMCA mk1 can carry more than 4 AAM IWB, just like J-31/J-35
F22, Su57, J20, etc comes under heavy class, means these jets can carry more ordinance in IWB, means more AAMs.

 

[Gyyan]

In my previous post I was discussing only about the max load out of AAMs of contemporary 5th generation fighters such as Su-57, J-20, F-22 etc. That is why I kept on stressing on the term "missile", though I do not mean to say that a missile is only a weapon that can destroy aerial targets. To be honest, the maximum load of weopons that any fighter jet can carry is limited by what it's individual pylon can carry, max weight of any fighter doesn't mean it can carry that many weapons actually.

Chinese are also working on increasing the number of AAMs from 6 to 8 iirc.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Chinese 6th gen fighter will be inducted before AMCA makes first flight, and GoI will claim it is 7th gen. Then there will be a aerial battle over Himachal, few MKI/Rafales downed by PLAAF's stealth UCAVs and 5th/6th gen fighters, our honourable Defence minsiter will run to Washington DC for F-35 "emmergency buy".


The 4 trillion ecenomy and 1.4 billion people are good for nothing without proper use of firepower. Our military planners are childish gamers. they learn after every battle karabakh, ukraine, gaza. while major militaries like China, USA, UK plan in advance.
we are always reactive. balakot, kargil, galwan, doklam... we understood we are not prepared for those wars. We needed to mobalize our massive population on social media to counter pork/chinese propagandas which came with concrete photos like our bombs kolled crows or massive number of oir soldiers taken hostages. shame shame shame on Modi.

Heh give it 2 years. 100% at this rate we'll be running to the Russians for made in India Su-57MKI.

Spoiler

Fucking clowns couldn't figure out a way to fit basic S-duct intakes on stelf bird. Has to resort to reflector grills.

 

[raju1982]

Heh give it 2 years. 100% at this rate we'll be running to the Russians for made in India Su-57MKI.
View attachment 233243

Spoiler

Fucking clowns couldn't figure out a way to fit basic S-duct intakes on stelf bird. Has to resort to reflector grills.
View attachment 233244

We will for sure or may be F-35. MoD and IAF waiting for Abhinandan part 2 from China. This time it will be MKI.