AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Blademaster]

Transonic?? That's from Mach 1- to Mach 1+ ie going from sub sonic to super sonic. Brahmos already does much better at Mach 3 throughout its flight.

Sorry i used the wrong word. I meant to say the speed nearby Mach 4.

 

[Blademaster]

Easy to upgrade/modify and easy to maintain/ don't need high tech hangers etc. For usaf. heavy ordnance carried by b3,b52,c130.[future]

Not to mention that the usefulness of the 5th gen fighters as compared to the costs get less after the 1st day of strikes. 5th gen fighters greatest value is 1st day knockdown. You knock down all the radar stuff and sweep the skies of any AWACs, etc. and then 4th gen fighters can come and do their job with relative ease.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

This kind of discussions on economics have happend in parliament of different countries. Sometimes i burst into laughter thinking about investing billions of bucks making small/medium "stealth" jets like F-117, F-35, AMCA or bigger ones like F-22, J-20 to deliver only 2 A-G weapons in stealth mode. Just look at the financial economics, aviation-mileage, destruction/jet/sortie. We humans are awesome

 

[Ar.gaurav28]

How about we develop a stealth missile from ground up which glide for few kms then ignite motors and travel few hundred kms to reach target ,ki d of like SAAW concept but missile should be extremely stealthy

The problem with its stealth is it’s IR Signature, the very reason f22’s speed was also capped at mach 2 as going beyond that all the stealth evaporates!
&
I think the better solution is creating a souped up version of Rudram with high velocity, precision & range! That AMCA can carry in plenty of no. so First suppressing enemy air defence systems & then raining down all the versions of brahmos be it by su30mki or tejas mk2 or even tejas mk1/a.

please correct me if I’m wrong what I have heard is that initial brahmos ng was supposed to be 5m in length 50cm in dia with 3.5 mach speed and 290km range, which is now revised for 4.5 mach speed and 450km range with the new ram jet engine denoted as X.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

souped up version of Rudram

Rudram soup The warhead section of Rudram will carry soup

 

[Flying Dagger]

Not to mention that the usefulness of the 5th gen fighters as compared to the costs get less after the 1st day of strikes. 5th gen fighters greatest value is 1st day knockdown. You knock down all the radar stuff and sweep the skies of any AWACs, etc. and then 4th gen fighters can come and do their job with relative ease.

That's the advantage against a smaller enemy like Pakistan for a bigger china we will need more.

 

[Kuldeepm952]

Rudram soup The warhead section of Rudram will carry soup

We will add laxatives in that soup and made our enemies line up for toilets. That's the way we will do Kadi Ninda NXT non lethal WarFAre.

 

[Love Charger]

We will add laxatives in that soup and made our enemies line up for toilets. That's the way we will do Kadi Ninda NXT non lethal WarFAre.

Grape idea

 

[Dark Sorrow]

I can't find the dimensions of AMCA's IWB anywhere, other than it will be unusually large. I suppose a 6m Brahmos NG can fit inside?

I think length and diameter of Brahmos NG will make it infeasible to fit in AMCA's IWB.

 

[Lonewolf]

I think length and diameter of Brahmos NG will make it infeasible to fit in AMCA's IWB.

Nope

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Guys, the terminal velocity of S/M/IRBM is super/hyper-sonic. We have Prithivi, Prahar, Pralay, Agni, Shaurya, Sagarika, Dhanush. Recently used Iskaner kind of missiles also have decoys, i hope our missiles will have too in future.
So just think why u wanna fire BIG non-stealthy super/hyper-sonic cruise missile with BIG exhaust plume, from IWB of a Stealth fighter whose stealth will be compromised immediately upon launch.
If F-35's DAS can pick up a rocket plume from 1300Kms then what is 290Km range of brahmos-NG? And now scientists & engineers worldwide will race to equip their fighter jets & even AEWAC with good optical sensors for long range passive IR detection.
Moreover Brahmos-NG will weigh 1.5 tons, total IWB load of AMCA. It will by 5m/16.4ft in length & 50cm diameter while IWB primarily caters to standard AAMs around 12ft (AMRAAM, Astr, Meteor) & secondarily some GPS or LGB if they can luckily fit in. Even the AAMs required newer versions cutting the fins like AIM-120-C/D. We have to leave some gap in lenght & width of IWB for safe launch of weapons.
It is AMCA not AHCA but in my personal opinion we need AHCA with custom AAMs, AGMs, ALCMs, AShMs like being developed for F-22, F-35 & 6th gen F-XX. Neg gen jet requires new gen weapons.

I couldn't find DoD releasing any CG or exhibition model showing Brahmos NG in AMCA IWB.
Still if u wanna size cmparison, AMCA is slightly bigger than LCA, u can see & understand if AMCA can fit Brahmos NG or not :-

Ideally, Stealth jet needs a stealth missile too. Even if it is more costly but guarantees almost full Pk (Probability of Kill) then) & can change the course or outcome of conflict then it is worth it.
For example, currently when F-22 launches AMRAAM, its motor plume is huge & equivalent to a light jet's afterburner & for its max range it has to be fired at supercruising speeds & higher altitudes where plume can be detected more easily.

And then we see the much bigger plume of Brahmos

Stealth jet requires stealth missiles

Sukhoi Checkmate design has also reallized longer IWB for long range missiles which will also be stealth, with folding fins.

So i sincerly hope that DRDO has something like this on papers for AMCA. I shared this concern earier also as a design growth in AMCA MK2 & TEDBF MK2/3.

But such low/medium speed stealth cruise misile is successful only when there is no capable SAM, CIWS, etc against it. Brahmos-II's dimensions are unknown at this time, the exhibition model is not the real sie. But with an aim of Mach-8 & 1,000 Km range i doubt it will fit in AMCA's IWB.

 

[THESIS THORON]

Guys, the terminal velocity of S/M/IRBM is super/hyper-sonic. We have Prithivi, Prahar, Pralay, Agni, Shaurya, Sagarika, Dhanush. Recently used Iskaner kind of missiles also have decoys, i hope our missiles will have too in future.
So just think why u wanna fire BIG non-stealthy super/hyper-sonic cruise missile with BIG exhaust plume, from IWB of a Stealth fighter whose stealth will be compromised immediately upon launch.
If F-35's DAS can pick up a rocket plume from 1300Kms then what is 290Km range of brahmos-NG? And now scientists & engineers worldwide will race to equip their fighter jets & even AEWAC with good optical sensors for long range passive IR detection.
Moreover Brahmos-NG will weigh 1.5 tons, total IWB load of AMCA. It will by 5m/16.4ft in length & 50cm diameter while IWB primarily caters to standard AAMs around 12ft (AMRAAM, Astr, Meteor) & secondarily some GPS or LGB if they can luckily fit in. Even the AAMs required newer versions cutting the fins like AIM-120-C/D. We have to leave some gap in lenght & width of IWB for safe launch of weapons.
It is AMCA not AHCA but in my personal opinion we need AHCA with custom AAMs, AGMs, ALCMs, AShMs like being developed for F-22, F-35 & 6th gen F-XX. Neg gen jet requires new gen weapons.

I couldn't find DoD releasing any CG or exhibition model showing Brahmos NG in AMCA IWB.
Still if u wanna size cmparison, AMCA is slightly bigger than LCA, u can see & understand if AMCA can fit Brahmos NG or not :-
View attachment 144547
View attachment 144549
View attachment 144557
View attachment 144558

Ideally, Stealth jet needs a stealth missile too. Even if it is more costly but guarantees almost full Pk (Probability of Kill) then) & can change the course or outcome of conflict then it is worth it.
For example, currently when F-22 launches AMRAAM, its motor plume is huge & equivalent to a light jet's afterburner & for its max range it has to be fired at supercruising speeds & higher altitudes where plume can be detected more easily.
View attachment 144562

And then we see the much bigger plume of Brahmos

View attachment 144563

Stealth jet requires stealth missiles

View attachment 144565

Sukhoi Checkmate design has also reallized longer IWB for long range missiles which will also be stealth, with folding fins.

View attachment 144587

So i sincerly hope that DRDO has something like this on papers for AMCA. I shared this concern earier also as a design growth in AMCA MK2 & TEDBF MK2/3.
View attachment 144588

But such low/medium speed stealth cruise misile is successful only when there is no capable SAM, CIWS, etc against it. Brahmos-II's dimensions are unknown at this time, the exhibition model is not the real sie. But with an aim of Mach-8 & 1,000 Km range i doubt it will fit in AMCA's IWB.

View attachment 144577

su 57 had it ig,

 

[THESIS THORON]

ig we should update this thread

AMCA MK1

This thread will contain information and related sources on AMCA MK1. Rules for everyone contributing here. 1. No discussions in this thread of any sort. Do it here if any discussion required https://defenceforumindia.com/threads/amca-advanced-medium-combat-aircraft-hal.36/ . Delete any...

defenceforumindia.com

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

su 57 had it ig,

Not all can fit into its IWB. Some missiles need to be of very specific dimensions with folding fins.

See how 1 missile just exceeds the IWB here below:

Below we see a Brahmos type shorter missile at bottom:

So we have to be very careful in design phase of jets & missiles

 

[johnj]

su 57 had it ig,

KAB 1500, KH 31AD/PD & BRAHMOS NG in external points[/] not in iwb. AMCA can carry brahmos ng externally.

 

[Super Flanker]

Are there any plans to introduce an inclosed Weopons pod in AMCA? Like how FA-18 Super Hornet has an enclosed Weopons pod in which a number of Weopons (Missiles, Guided ordnance can be stored).

It would be ideal for a Fighter like AMCA to have such a feature embedded in it as AMCA will be a Stealth Aircraft :-

• With (IWP) AMCA would be able to Carry more Weopons for any mission instead of only in it's IWB and it would still have a lowered RCS too.
• Not as low as in configuration of only Carrying ordnance inside it's IWB but it would be low still.

 

[fire starter]

 

[Love Charger]

I sincerely hope its not like tofu dreg of china

 

[THESIS THORON]

Are there any plans to introduce an inclosed Weopons pod in AMCA? Like how FA-18 Super Hornet has an enclosed Weopons pod in which a number of Weopons (Missiles, Guided ordnance can be stored).

View attachment 144751

It would be ideal for a Fighter like AMCA to have such a feature embedded in it as AMCA will be a Stealth Aircraft :-

• With (IWP) AMCA would be able to Carry more Weopons for any mission instead of only in it's IWB and it would still have a lowered RCS too.
• Not as low as in configuration of only Carrying ordnance inside it's IWB but it would be low still.

View attachment 144750

bro, iwb hai na, kyo chahiye yeh ??

 

[Super Flanker]

bro, iwb hai na, kyo chahiye yeh ??

IWB? IWB of AMCA can carry only 4 BVRs Inside it (Astra Mk-1, Astra Mk-2 and Possibly MK-3{not sure about Astra MK-3 though}>~

You really think that 4 BVRs will be enough? I don't think so.