Ahmedabad metro to run on wind power

[Mad Indian]

I re read the link how doesthe internal combustion engine work? And th link he gave gives how the motors are used to generate electric energy from brakes . As I said, the power comes off from petrol ultimately but the hybrid car uses the hybrid energy albeit with high efficiency.



I Will give you a hint LB the only source of energy in the world except nuclear energy is Solar energy. Why is that? Or rather how is that? Apply the same principle here

 

[pmaitra]

• Toyota Prius - fuel efficiency, max 51 miles per gallon of petrol.
• Volkswagen Common-Rail Turbo Diesel (TDI) engine (Golf, Jetta, etc.) - officially 42 miles per gallon, but people have reported upto 47 miles per gallon of diesel. Plus, you can haul a 2000 lb trailer, which a Prius cannot.

And yes, the TDIs pass the stringent California emission laws.

So, I ain't buying into this hybrid hoopla!

 

[pmaitra]

Most Electric hybrids don't (directly) use kinetic energy of internal combustion engine. Doing that energy conversion directly via a dynamo would be counterproductive.

Instead, they use regenerative braking, i.e convert kinetic energy which would have gone to waste into electric energy.

Electric cars are cleaner as power plants which burn fossil fuels are much more energy efficient compared to a small internal combustion engine.

LB, regenerative braking is one of the many ways to harness hitherto unused or wasted energy. It has nothing to do with a car being petrol, diesel, electric or hybrid.

You could have a non-hybrid car but use regenerative braking to charge your batteries, and you could have the same efficiency. Every single Watt you produce from your brakes is one less Watt your engine has to generate to charge that battery, thus less fuel burnt.

Even turbo-chargers are another way to use the energy of the exhaust gases which would otherwise be wasted.

 

[Mad Indian]

From the country/state's electricity grid which draws power from Coal, Hydroelectric, Solar, Thermal, Wind, Nuclear etc Power plants

Exactly. And in India or even the whole world the fossil fuel form 70-80% of the electricity consumption. Which ha been both our points from the beginning. Electric/hybrid cars are not pure as shown in media.

Phew finally

 

[LurkerBaba]

I re read the link how doesthe internal combustion engine work? And th link he gave gives how the motors are used to generate electric energy from brakes . As I said, the power comes off from petrol ultimately but the hybrid car uses the hybrid energy albeit with high efficiency.

Not really. Plug in Hybrids work as pure electric vehicles (till they have charge) and can be charged externally. Power doesn't come off petrol

I Will give you a hint LB the only source of energy in the world except nuclear energy is Solar energy. Why is that? Or rather how is that? Apply the same principle here

I'll give you another 'hint'. Solar Energy is a form of Nuclear Energy

Exactly. And in India or even the whole world the fossil fuel form 70-80% of the electricity consumption. Which ha been both our points from the beginning. Electric/hybrid cars are not pure as shown in media.

Phew finally

Strawman. "Electric/hybrid cars are not pure as shown in media." was never my point of contention. What I'm trying to explain is, there are different types of "Hybrids". Some can be directly charged and don't run off a dynamo coupled to an internal combustion engine

 

[pmaitra]

Not really. Plug in Hybrids work as pure electric vehicles (till they have charge) and can be charged externally. Power doesn't come off petrol

I guess his usage of the word petrol was inappropriate. I'd say most of the world's electricity comes off fossil fuels.

I'll give you another 'hint'. Solar Energy is a form of Nuclear Energy

Correct. The Sun is a giant hydrogen bomb.

 

[LurkerBaba]

LB, regenerative braking is one of the many ways to harness hitherto unused or wasted energy. It has nothing to do with a car being petrol, diesel, electric or hybrid.

You could have a non-hybrid car but use regenerative braking to charge your batteries, and you could have the same efficiency. Every single Watt you produce from your brakes is one less Watt your engine has to generate to charge that battery, thus less fuel burnt.

Well, I'm referring primarily to the method in which an electric motor is involved. Going by definitions, the presence of an electric motor (along with an internal combustion engine) even if it's only used for regenerative braking makes the car a "Mild Hybrid"

I guess his usage of the word petrol was inappropriate. I'd say most of the world's electricity comes off fossil fuels.

I don't think he's understood what a Plug in Hybrid really is

 

[pmaitra]

^^

Mild hybrid -

Nice one.

My car is also a mild-hybrid, i.e. when it is travelling in the direction of the wind. It is gasoline and wind powered.

 

[aeroblogger]

If you live in a city that is supplied with electricity generated from a plant that burns coal and bitumen and you charge your electric car in that city everyday, then your electric car is producing a lot more pollution than a four stroke gasoline engine.

Most of the electricity in the world is produced from fossil fuels.

Not quite - electric cars use relatively little electricity. So even if the electricity they are using was created in an un-environmentally friendly way, the car is still using less of it.

 

[LurkerBaba]

IIRC

Coal power plants have an energy efficiency of about 30%-45%. Four stroke engines have an efficiency ~20%

 

[Mad Indian]

@ LB well duh . I meant the nuclear fission when I said nuclear energy that is the only source we have been able to harness till now.

2, and how exactly does the electrical energy from the hybrid car come from. Pmaitra gave th answer.

3, even fossil fuel, wind , Hyde et all are all one or other manifestations of solar energy. OT But I brought it up as comparison for people with understanding difficulties.

And the friction is from kinetic energy only, which would have other wise wasted- your so called regressive braking.

And non sense. The internal combustion engine runs on petrol right for travelling for log distances and for higher speeds? UTK mentioned something about charging of the car in case of a switch to gas in case battery runs out? I was making point that even that comes from gas- that recharge part.

God- why am I explaining physics to engineers

 

[Mad Indian]

ok just to make it clear, the first point in the post to LB is about fossils not just petrol. When using electricity fossil fuels are consumed indirectly while in the case where the car runs out of battery in which the car switches back to petrol or even at high speeds, the battery is re-charged(correct me if I m wrong) which is again direct conversion(comparatively) from energy stored in petrol.

 

[Mad Indian]

IIRC

Coal power plants have an energy efficiency of about 30%-45%. Four stroke engines have an efficiency ~20%

So electric hybrid cars are more efficient and not zero emission material. Which is the point from the beginning

 

[pmaitra]

Not quite - electric cars use relatively little electricity. So even if the electricity they are using was created in an un-environmentally friendly way, the car is still using less of it.

Not sure what you meant by that.

Also, if you were to take an Ambassador 2L DSZ, and replace it with an electric motor and batteries and make it do the same amount of work and produce the same torque, how much electricity would you need, and what weight will the batteries add?

Can you build an electric car the size of a Ford Flex, that can also haul a caravan, and carry the same load, and use 'less' electricity? The answer is no.

Electric cars have not reached that level of efficiency yet. Correct me if I am wrong.

Plus, the more the energy changes its form, more is the loss. Think of form factor and eddy currents, for example.

 

[LurkerBaba]

2, and how exactly does the electrical energy from the hybrid car come from. Pmaitra gave th answer.
...
...

And the friction is from kinetic energy only, which would have other wise wasted- your so called regressive braking.

This was your statement

As I said, the power comes off from petrol ultimately but the hybrid car uses the hybrid energy albeit with high efficiency.

Which is incorrect. However, you've changed petrol to 'fossil fuels' below v

ok just to make it clear, the first point in the post to LB is about fossils not just petrol. When using electricity fossil fuels are consumed indirectly while in the case where the car runs out of battery in which the car switches back to petrol or even at high speeds, the battery is re-charged(correct me if I m wrong) which is again direct conversion(comparatively) from energy stored in petrol.

It's not imperative that the car switches back to petrol all the time.

So electric hybrid cars are more efficient and not zero emission material. Which is the point from the beginning

Not my point of contention

 

[Mad Indian]

This was your statement

Which is incorrect. However, you've changed petrol to 'fossil fuels' below v

It's not imperative that the car switches back to petrol all the time.

Not my point of contention

That's what I meant dude. Even my statement is not wrong. When the battery runs out, the car switches back to petrol. Then as the car moves some amount of electricity Is generated when using petrol engine which is used for re-chargin the batteries. Read the working of the engines carefully. So ultimately even that comes off from petrol. That was the point I was making there. And regarding the electricity I already made point on how they come from fossils too(mostly)


And if that's not your point of contention what the hell are you arguing on? Are you living upto the reputation of argumentative Indian too?

 

[LurkerBaba]

That's what I meant dude. Even my statement is not wrong. When the battery runs out, the car switches back to petrol. Then as the car moves some amount of electricity Is generated when using petrol engine which is used for re-chargin the batteries. Read the working of the engines carefully. So ultimately event comes off from petrol.

'Ultimately' is a vague term, you'll realize it once you read upon on series and parallel Hybrids

Petrol engine can play second fiddle to the electric motor too.

 

[pmaitra]

No, the energy doesn't come off petrol "ultimately" (vague, read up on series and parallel Hybrids)

In many Hybrids, petrol engine plays second fiddle to the electric motor.

Mad Indian was talking about UTK's Prius, and in that context, he is correct. The electricity does come out of Petrol.

 

[LurkerBaba]

Mad Indian was talking about UTK's Prius, and in that context, he is correct. The electricity does come out of Petrol.

UTK mentioned a Chevy Volt too

 

[Mad Indian]