ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Azaad]

A paper plane is a paper plane

if MRFA RFP is issued 01/01/2024, delivery will not be before 2031-33, spread out well into the 2040s

inaction/sabotage of the last 3-5 years has ensured the 2030s are another lost decade for the Indian armed forces where the gap between them and their foes continues to grow

In the event I was referring to the GoI exercising the option for the 2nd tranche of Rafales up ing the numbers to 54 nos instead of 36 nos.
Add 26 nos Rafale M & you have 36+54+26.

I would've liked to see 2-3 squadrons of the second stage of the Su-57 with the Izdeliye 30 TF but even if we assume these FAs are certified by 2025 there's literally little time for negotiations & us getting the requisite numbers ( in the form the RuAF receives it & not some monkey model) by 2030 unless of course we've had a close look at the kind of progress the Su-57 has made & are in the loop for the various upgradations the FA has undertaken along with landmarks it has met along the development path & are already in secret negotiations with the Russians which though improbable can't be ruled out.

 

[abingdonboy]

In the event I was referring to the GoI exercising the option for the 2nd tranche of Rafales up ing the numbers to 54 nos instead of 36 nos.
Add 26 nos Rafale M & you have 36+54+26.

I would've liked to see 2-3 squadrons of the second stage of the Su-57 with the Izdeliye 30 TF but even if we assume these FAs are certified by 2025 there's literally little time for negotiations & us getting the requisite numbers ( in the form the RuAF receives it & not some monkey model) by 2030 unless of course we've had a close look at the kind of progress the Su-57 has made & are in the loop for the various upgradations the FA has undertaken along with landmarks it has met along the development path & are already in secret negotiations with the Russians which though improbable can't be ruled out.

This is what Indian defence fanboys are reduced to- complete fantasy pipe-dreams. It’s 2024 almost and the second tranche option hasn’t been exercised hence it has likely expired and anyway IAF had publicly stated they weren’t interested in merely 36 more and it was 114 or nothing

As for the Rafale-M talk:
1) they are NAVY fighters so matter zilch to IAF squadron numbers and will never be (routinely) deployed to northern land bases
2) as per both sides talks haven’t even begun on the deal so deliveries are at least another 5-7 years away for them at best (although I think the chances of the deal ever happening are worse than 50-50)

+I’m sure this is also the time to start throwing money at the Russians who are having to tell their women to breed more to make up for their losses in their war.

let’s keep discussion rooted in reality please

 

[Azaad]

This is what Indian defence fanboys are reduced to- complete fantasy pipe-dreams. It’s 2024 almost and the second tranche option hasn’t been exercised hence it has likely expired and anyway IAF had publicly stated they weren’t interested in merely 36 more and it was 114 or nothing

As for the Rafale-M talk:
1) they are NAVY fighters so matter zilch to IAF squadron numbers and will never be (routinely) deployed to northern land bases
2) as per both sides talks haven’t even begun on the deal so deliveries are at least another 5-7 years away for them at best (although I think the chances of the deal ever happening are worse than 50-50)

+I’m sure this is also the time to start throwing money at the Russians who are having to tell their women to breed more to make up for their losses in their war.

let’s keep discussion rooted in reality please

I don't see any reason why the option for the 2nd tranche cannot run parallel to the MRFA tender. Is there anything in our rule book against such a development?

Furthermore the price negotiations for the 26 nos Rafale M has already commenced. Aren't you aware of it? Why should it take 5-7 yrs which translates to 2031 when we're receiving the TEDBF from 2032 onwards give or take. Rafale M makes sense only if we receive the full complement within 5 yrs for which we have to conclude the agreement & issue the PO within a year else the entire exercise is one in futility.

The French contingent over at Strat Front are also gung ho about establishing a line for assembly at Mihan if we exercise the option for 36-54 nos for the IAF in addition to 26 nos Rafale M.

As far as the argument it's a Naval FA goes, we've already used the Alize in tandem with the IAF in the 1971 war. We're using the Predators & P-8i Poseidons over the Himalayas for ISR / AEW activities.

 

[stat231]

I don't see any reason why the option for the 2nd tranche cannot run parallel to the MRFA tender. Is there anything in our rule book against such a development?

Furthermore the price negotiations for the 26 nos Rafale M has already commenced. Aren't you aware of it? Why should it take 5-7 yrs which translates to 2031 when we're receiving the TEDBF from 2032 onwards give or take. Rafale M makes sense only if we receive the full complement within 5 yrs for which we have to conclude the agreement & issue the PO within a year else the entire exercise is one in futility.

The French contingent over at Strat Front are also gung ho about establishing a line for assembly at Mihan if we exercise the option for 36-54 nos for the IAF in addition to 26 nos Rafale M.

As far as the argument it's a Naval FA goes, we've already used the Alize in tandem with the IAF in the 1971 war. We're using the Predators & P-8i Poseidons over the Himalayas for ISR / AEW activities.

I dont want to sound like I am blackpilling but TEDBF by 2032? how? No sanction yet right?

 

[abingdonboy]

I don't see any reason why the option for the 2nd tranche cannot run parallel to the MRFA tender. Is there anything in our rule book against such a development?

Furthermore the price negotiations for the 26 nos Rafale M has already commenced. Aren't you aware of it? Why should it take 5-7 yrs which translates to 2031 when we're receiving the TEDBF from 2032 onwards give or take. Rafale M makes sense only if we receive the full complement within 5 yrs for which we have to conclude the agreement & issue the PO within a year else the entire exercise is one in futility.

The French contingent over at Strat Front are also gung ho about establishing a line for assembly at Mihan if we exercise the option for 36-54 nos for the IAF in addition to 26 nos Rafale M.

As far as the argument it's a Naval FA goes, we've already used the Alize in tandem with the IAF in the 1971 war. We're using the Predators & P-8i Poseidons over the Himalayas for ISR / AEW activities.

1) as per October 2023 they may have started price negotiations

The negotiations on pricing and other details are expected to take place after the defence ministry receives a response from the French side, the people familiar with the matter said.

India communicates to France decision to procure 26 Rafale Marine jets

The Indian Air Force bought 36 aircraft in fly-away condition. There is a thinking in the IAF that it should go for at least two more squadrons of the Rafale jets.

www.thehindu.com

1-2 years for that, 1-2 more years of the DAC—>CCS circus then 2-3 years for first deliveries. Again I’ll let you do the maths on that, it’s as good as 2024.

2) again IN numbers mean 0 to IAF fighter strength- surge operations are meaningless, in a full spectrum conflict naval fighters are for what their name suggests otherwise why does the naval air arm exist?

3) whatever some guys on the internet say is meaningless. Eric Tapier said ~2015 that they’d only look to start a Rafale (assembly) line in india for a minimum of ~90 units and given it took the best part of a decade to negotiate for the C295 good luck with that.

4) there’s NO, nada, zilch talks going on in parallel for 36-54 more jets, IAF has said 114 or nothing.

like I said- can we remain in reality and not what we would like to see it is almost 2024 and MRFA RFP is nowhere to be seen, LCA MK.2 funds are only just now hitting ADA and AMCA/engine clearances are all pending.

 

[Azaad]

I dont want to sound like I am blackpilling but TEDBF by 2032? how? No sanction yet right?

2032-34 is the T/L quoted but now all that is a thing of the past. Mk-2 was to have been flown first with the GE F-414 TF followed by AMCA Mk-1 & TEDBF. If we've no confirmation on the first flight of the Mk-2 owing to the problems we're encountering with the US over geopolitics, all bets are off.

 

[abingdonboy]

I dont want to sound like I am blackpilling but TEDBF by 2032? how? No sanction yet right?

Oh yes and this is another piece of reality- TEDBF isn’t even a sanctioned project formally. From when it is to delivery is at least a 10-12 year process

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

So when mk2 will arrive it maybe obselete thus reducing the no of orders
Yeh toh paida hone sa pehle hi khatam ho gaya

4.5 gen aircraft will continue to thrive till 2070 if not more

 

[jai jaganath]

4.5 gen aircraft will continue to thrive till 2070 if not more

Yeah ofc but there will be serious upgrades and ng tech being used on 4.5 gen aircrafts as time passes the mk2 which will be ready by 2035 will be present with current tech
Anyways too early to speak
But funds being released now is very concerning

 

[jai jaganath]

 

[raju1982]

If HAL is saying first flight in 2027, than Mahadev save us. You can easily add 4/5 years on top of that.

Timeline is just a number, do not take it seriously. - Govt babus

Mark my word IAF will get seriously screwed in next skirmish with China. All faults lies with Modi.


Only hope if FUFA and Ghatak. FUFA should be a private public partnership. But i do not think RSingh has any idea what is FUFA and why IAF needs it so much.

 

[Covfefe]

(blackpilling)
RSingh is no match to Mr Parrikar as RM. India suffered a huge blow when she lost Mr Parrikar. Forces and bureaucracy aren't mature enough to sort it out within themselves, provided they aren't compromised. Fufa, bua, Tata, Kalyani ain't gonna fix the problem that lies in MoD and Armed forces.
(/blackpilling)

 

[karn]

(blackpilling)
RSingh is no match to Mr Parrikar as RM. India suffered a huge blow when she lost Mr Parrikar. Forces and bureaucracy aren't mature enough to sort it out within themselves, provided they aren't compromised. Fufa, bua, Tata, Kalyani ain't gonna fix the problem that lies in MoD and Armed forces.
(/blackpilling)
View attachment 233020

Need a bellasarius cawl to sort this shit out.

 

[raju1982]

Need a bellasarius cawl to sort this shit out.

MoD returned unspent 2400 crores last year. They could easily buy gears for infantry with that amount.

I think RS is an Yes man, he does not understand much what is UAV and what is UCAV.

 

[Tejbrahmastra]

Even the 2027 is not sure for the first flight as long as the engine deal is not complete.

 

[Chinmoy]

Yo wtf is going on delayed again?

These guys are crying on a year old clause. Nothing more.

 

[jai jaganath]

These guys are crying on a year old clause. Nothing more.

But sir funds are being released now
Doesn't matter clause being year old or not

 

[Chinmoy]

But sir funds are being released now
Doesn't matter clause being year old or not

Look. We have enough Lal Topis here already. Try not be in queue.

Clause is put before any kind of approval. You don't change or put clause once approval for project is given. When you are saying that fund is getting released, it means the clause got ticked already.

We all know that we are not getting engine design ToT from GE, but the ToT in talk here is the manufacturing ToT. CCS approval for Mk2 was given on September 2022 and in August 2023 US congress has approved ToT for joint manufacture in India. Fund is getting released now.

 

[jai jaganath]

Look. We have enough Lal Topis here already. Try not be in queue.

Clause is put before any kind of approval. You don't change or put clause once approval for project is given. When you are saying that fund is getting released, it means the clause got ticked already.

We all know that we are not getting engine design ToT from GE, but the ToT in talk here is the manufacturing ToT. CCS approval for Mk2 was given on September 2022 and in August 2023 US congress has approved ToT for joint manufacture in India. Fund is getting released now.

Yes what's different then
Point whole project has got delayed bcoz the funds being released now
Yes clause has been achieved but funds being released after 1 year of ccs clearance is concerning coz now we can expect further delays

 

[Chinmoy]

Yes what's different then
Point whole project has got delayed bcoz the funds being released now
Yes clause has been achieved but funds being released after 1 year of ccs clearance is concerning coz now we can expect further delays

So?

You want the project to be stopped in mid because someone is US might think otherwise? That would have been better. Right?