ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[tomthounaojam]

Korean and Turkish have progressed way ahead of us, even if we have started early. We are stuck with Mk2 concept 4.5+ aircraft replacing almost 4.5 gen aircraft. We are the fourth largest Air Force in the world without 5th gen aircraft, Chinese is almost 20 years ahead now. I feel some of our lack of a clear road map especially in aircraft procurement is really frustrating, HAL should be privatised, and with that diktat they will start working proficiently.

 

[NutCracker]

Korean and Turkish have progressed way ahead of us, even if we have started early. We are stuck with Mk2 concept 4.5+ aircraft replacing almost 4.5 gen aircraft. We are the fourth largest Air Force in the world without 5th gen aircraft, Chinese is almost 20 years ahead now. I feel some of our lack of a clear road map especially in aircraft procurement is really frustrating, HAL should be privatised, and with that diktat they will start working proficiently.

Privatisation is not an option . We are not USA with budget of 900B$ to pay through nose to these B@stard leeches of defence corridor. Private players are not interested in domestic projects because it has very low margin.
Watch this.

 

[DeadCritic]

Korean and Turkish have progressed way ahead of us, even if we have started early. We are stuck with Mk2 concept 4.5+ aircraft replacing almost 4.5 gen aircraft. We are the fourth largest Air Force in the world without 5th gen aircraft, Chinese is almost 20 years ahead now. I feel some of our lack of a clear road map especially in aircraft procurement is really frustrating, HAL should be privatised, and with that diktat they will start working proficiently.

IMO,
The role of a 5th Gen fighter is limited and has a huge operation burden. Even USA is still buying also of 4.5 gen fighters.
India has a clear aim to achieve objectives suitable for India and not for the export market.

India is behind China by 2 decades?
IMO That's true but most of it is because of Geo politics.
If you are in good books or the US, you benefit a lot as they try to use you for proxy wars. That was the case in 80s/90s/20s.

This is what exactly they are trying to do with India but India is playing smart. On the other hand, China still lacks in many areas compared to the US, primarily silicon chips and metallurgy.
Whoever can produce the smallest chip and powerful processor wins the advanced engineering race.

China is already facing the wrath of US geopolitics. Because of this it's losing a lot of money on exports and will lose more in the near future which indirectly affects the money you can spend on Military R&D.

In the next 20 years, India will have better weapons and jets than China.

 

[tomthounaojam]

Privatisation is not an option . We are not USA with budget of 900B$ to pay through nose to these B@stard leeches of defence corridor. Private players are not interested in domestic projects because it has very low margin.
Watch this.

Private sector is not strong cause the ecosystem is not there and it will take some time for it, if we have HAL as the sole aircraft manufacturer then the monopoly will be always there with them. Since it is Government's own they don't need to worry about salary in layman's terms. If we were to build say next 200 aircraft in the next 20 years some should go to the private sector so that at the end of the 200 aircraft they are capable of making their own aircraft. Low margin is there because the number is also low, however, Tata getting Cn-295 is something to be cherished, I wish the Do-228 manufacturer be given to another private player so that we have at least 3 aircraft manufacturers in the country.

IMO,
The role of a 5th Gen fighter is limited and has a huge operation burden. Even USA is still buying also of 4.5 gen fighters.
India has a clear aim to achieve objectives suitable for India and not for the export market.

India is behind China by 2 decades?
IMO That's true but most of it is because of Geo politics.
If you are in good books or the US, you benefit a lot as they try to use you for proxy wars. That was the case in 80s/90s/20s.

This is what exactly they are trying to do with India but India is playing smart. On the other hand, China still lacks in many areas compared to the US, primarily silicon chips and metallurgy.
Whoever can produce the smallest chip and powerful processor wins the advanced engineering race.

China is already facing the wrath of US geopolitics. Because of this it's losing a lot of money on exports and will lose more in the near future which indirectly affects the money you can spend on Military R&D.

In the next 20 years, India will have better weapons and jets than China.

5th gen may be limited now but in the next 20 years, they might become the mainstream as the current fleet of aircraft might become too old to fly. The enemy we have up north is a formidable one and has two active 5th gen programs and J-20 will reach 200+ in the next few years second one might become operational too. Even if they send 10 aircraft for a patrol 3-4 might be 5th gen and have advantages.
US need 5th gen cause they don't want to use expensive aircraft to bomb someone who living in a 100$ tent house, hence either a drone or cheaper Aircraft.
Chip, China has one Ace card they might not be able to make very advanced chips but they do have plenty of rare earth material for making the chips. All am saying is we don't need to have a huge mixed fleet number just some high-end quality aircraft.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Korean and Turkish have progressed way ahead of us, even if we have started early. We are stuck with Mk2 concept 4.5+ aircraft replacing almost 4.5 gen aircraft. We are the fourth largest Air Force in the world without 5th gen aircraft, Chinese is almost 20 years ahead now. I feel some of our lack of a clear road map especially in aircraft procurement is really frustrating, HAL should be privatised, and with that diktat they will start working proficiently.

I don’t even know why this stupid argument is bought again and again? HAL has nothing to do with the current problem. This problem has to do with the Modi Govt.


HAL is doing stuffs for free. Best of luck trying to get that from private companies. For HAL to
Privatize, there should be multiple competitors. There are no competitors to HAL which makes privatization of HAL Idiotic. HAL is delivering LCH and LUH without orders. Tell me one private company which does that?
It’s delivering Dhruv ahead of schedule. It developed HTT40 without formal order from IAF or GOI. It developed HTFE engine without govt funds. Try doing that with private sector. They won’t move fingers without 15% initial money. HAL has its problem but privatization is not the solution.

 

[Eagle Eye]

Lack of opposition voice in Parliament to force govt to do meaningful changes.

MOD needs Gadkari-politican or Ashwini-technocrat kind of guy. Not a 'file pusher' Rajnath.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

MOD needs Gadkari-politican or Ashwini-technocrat kind of guy. Not a 'file pusher' Rajnath.

Rajnath is an politician. RM might not be good fit for him. Should be given some other portfolio. But he is an BJP heavyweight given one of the heavyweight portfolios.
I doubt even Gadkari or even Modi can understand the technicalities of defence procurement. MP was an engineer. Having too many technocrats is not good for winning votes. They should be made top advisors and decisions should be moved through them.

 

[tomthounaojam]

I don’t even know why this stupid argument is bought again and again? HAL has nothing to do with the current problem. This problem has to do with the Modi Govt.

Hey Dude, I am offended, did I write anyone of your post "STUPID", if you don't like what I have written why not ignore it, I have my right to share my view here right or wrong, if You were to reply can say politely this has been discussed here and you can see it. What privilege do you have to insult me? "If you don't know why" have a self-reflection, I don't have track of what is written in this 423 pages thread, have a little courteous when replying to someone.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Hey Dude, I am offended, did I write anyone of your post "STUPID", if you don't like what I have written why not ignore it, I have my right to share my view here right or wrong, if You were to reply can say politely this has been discussed here and you can see it. What privilege do you have to insult me? "If you don't know why" have a self-reflection, I don't have track of what is written in this 423 pages thread, have a little courteous when replying to someone.

With due respect, offending or insulting you was not my intention. I did not call you stupid but this line of argument. I do apologize for making you feel like this.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars

View attachment 218854


View attachment 218853

Ya'll Nibbiars

 

[prateikf]

Ya'll Nibbiars

View attachment 218871

What is that ?

 

[DumbPilot]

What is that ?

Clearing The Mist On the IAF's Airborne EW Suites For Combat Aircraft & Helicopters

The integrated EW suite (shown below) for the Tejas Mk1 MRCA as envisaged by the DRDO’s Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and designed...

trishul-trident.blogspot.com

According to this, they are transmitting antennas. Most likely for ECM jamming in different modes

 

[DumbPilot]

Clearing The Mist On the IAF's Airborne EW Suites For Combat Aircraft & Helicopters

The integrated EW suite (shown below) for the Tejas Mk1 MRCA as envisaged by the DRDO’s Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and designed...

trishul-trident.blogspot.com

View attachment 218920

According to this, they are transmitting antennas. Most likely for ECM jamming in different modes

Looks like people started to realize it even 10 years ago.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Clearing The Mist On the IAF's Airborne EW Suites For Combat Aircraft & Helicopters

The integrated EW suite (shown below) for the Tejas Mk1 MRCA as envisaged by the DRDO’s Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and designed...

trishul-trident.blogspot.com

View attachment 218920

According to this, they are transmitting antennas. Most likely for ECM jamming in different modes

Fast forward to 2023, the supposedly sub-par and sub-optimal DR-118 RWR receives a 129 unit order worth Rs.3700 crore for fitment onto Su30 MKI.

https://pib.gov.in/Pressreleaseshare.aspx?PRID=1910065

 

[silverghost]

Lack of opposition voice in Parliament to force govt to do meaningful changes. And that emboldens the govt to do almost nothing.

If the opposition was more powerful we wouldn't have gotten those 36 (Air Force) + 25 (Naval) Rafales. Rahul Gandhi is on record saying that if his Govt. came to power in 2019, he will cancel the Rafale order. Modi was new when he went & placed that order. He saw the hue & cry made by the opposition firsthand. He realized that the safest route is to do Make in India, no matter how long it takes or how starved IAF is for fighter jets. Now let's wait until our PSU churns out something meaningful.

 

[prateikf]

If the opposition was more powerful we wouldn't have gotten those 36 (Air Force) + 25 (Naval) Rafales. Rahul Gandhi is on record saying that if his Govt. came to power in 2019, he will cancel the Rafale order. Modi was new when he went & placed that order. He saw the hue & cry made by the opposition firsthand. He realized that the safest route is to do Make in India, no matter how long it takes or how starved IAF is for fighter jets. Now let's wait until our PSU churns out something meaningful.

Why to care for the opposition ? Modi needs to do his duty as the PM. He shouldn’t be scared or cowed down by the opposition parties.

 

[silverghost]

I don’t even know why this stupid argument is bought again and again? HAL has nothing to do with the current problem. This problem has to do with the Modi Govt.


HAL is doing stuffs for free. Best of luck trying to get that from private companies. For HAL to
Privatize, there should be multiple competitors. There are no competitors to HAL which makes privatization of HAL Idiotic. HAL is delivering LCH and LUH without orders. Tell me one private company which does that?
It’s delivering Dhruv ahead of schedule. It developed HTT40 without formal order from IAF or GOI. It developed HTFE engine without govt funds. Try doing that with private sector. They won’t move fingers without 15% initial money. HAL has its problem but privatization is not the solution.

The military doesn't want free stuff. It wants to buy stuff that is in line with its requirements. DRDO as is should be disbanded and placed under Army & Air Force just like the way the Naval design bureau.This will help resolve the disconnect in a large measure. The Govt. shouldn't have a controlling stake in HAL & other defense contractors significantly & they should be owned by capital markets. This will help them hire top talent, set up JVs, buy companies abroad to acquire technologies, etc.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

The military doesn't want free stuff. It wants to buy stuff that is in line with its requirements. DRDO as is should be disbanded and placed under Army & Air Force just like the way the Naval design bureau.This will help resolve the disconnect in a large measure. The Govt. shouldn't have a controlling stake in HAL & other defense contractors significantly & they should be owned by capital markets. This will help them hire top talent, set up JVs, buy companies abroad to acquire technologies, etc.

Well that's a load of bullshit if I ever heard one

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

If the opposition was more powerful we wouldn't have gotten those 36 (Air Force) + 25 (Naval) Rafales. Rahul Gandhi is on record saying that if his Govt. came to power in 2019, he will cancel the Rafale order. Modi was new when he went & placed that order. He saw the hue & cry made by the opposition firsthand. He realized that the safest route is to do Make in India, no matter how long it takes or how starved IAF is for fighter jets. Now let's wait until our PSU churns out something meaningful.

If the Opposition voice was more powerful then they would have forced Modi to go with 126 Rafales in whatever way conceivable. Rafale was not selected by Modi, but by UPA time.

All the opposition politicians care about kickbacks. I believe corruption has taken place in Rafale before 2016. French firms are notorious for corruption. And unfortunately Modi is protecting that corruption cos he has no option. If he starts to investigate that, we have to stop orders for Dassault.

But that’s an another matter altogether. There is no decent debate on defence preparedness in Parliament, that should have forced the govt to do something.