ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[NutCracker]

Ok what way that thing liked to my comment.

Read slowly whole conversation again.. or in case you don't know , Google full form of MMRCA.

 

[sakalasiva]

Read slowly whole conversation again.. or in case you don't know , Google full form of MMRCA.

I still do not understand when we are speaking about class of fighter either medium or light, From where procurement of fighter comes in. Anyway I am not interested to prolong discussion on this one.

 

[MirageBlue]

All that may be related to strengthening for load but keeping the same wing shape helps reduce flight validation time.

As far as I recall, the wing span has been increased by increasing the fuselage width at the wing root, but the wing area itself hasn't been increased.

The Tejas Mk1 has a very low wing loading (I think one of the lowest of all fighters in operation) thanks to the very large wing area for a light fighter. Since the wing area isn't being increased on the Tejas Mk2, it's wing loading will be higher thanks to the higher empty weight as well as normal operating weight. At Max TOW it is almost 4000 kgs heavier than the Tejas Mk1, so the wing loading will be significantly higher.

 

[MirageBlue]

As far as I recall, the wing span has been increased by increasing the fuselage width at the wing root, but the wing area itself hasn't been increased.

The Tejas Mk1 has a very low wing loading (I think one of the lowest of all fighters in operation) thanks to the very large wing area for a light fighter. Since the wing area isn't being increased on the Tejas Mk2, it's wing loading will be higher thanks to the higher empty weight as well as normal operating weight. At Max TOW it is almost 4000 kgs heavier than the Tejas Mk1, so the wing loading will be significantly higher.

Confirmed. the Tejas Mk2's wing span is 8.5m whereas that of the Tejas Mk1 is 8.2m. So 0.3m increase in wing span, mostly by pushing out the fuselage at the wing root where the wing attaches to the fuselage.

 

[Johny_Baba]

Can someone explain how come Gripen E // F variants that is slightly bigger in terms of length and width, has higher empty weight and same fuel capacity as Tejas Mk2 and also powered by almost similar F414 engine with same rated maximum thrust of 98 kN is giving much higher payload of 7200 kg compared to Tejas Mk2's 6500 kg ?
i remember previously they stated it as 5300 kg even till very recently in 2021 that got increased as 6500 kg and now it is 7200 kg on Gripen E ? how come such dramatic increase of payload happening on same jet in barely one-two years ? is there some sort of development going on with Gripen-E or just...

 

[NutCracker]

Can someone explain how come Gripen E // F variants that is slightly bigger in terms of length and width, has higher empty weight and same fuel capacity as Tejas Mk2 and also powered by almost similar F414 engine with same rated maximum thrust of 98 kN is giving much higher payload of 7200 kg compared to Tejas Mk2's 6500 kg ?
i remember previously they stated it as 5300 kg even upto very recently in 2021 that got increased as 6500 kg and now it is 7200 kg on Gripen E ? how come such dramatic increase of payload happening on same jet in barely one-two years ? is there some sort of development going on with Gripen-E or just...

It always depends what "internal fuel" value each vender considers "sufficient".

SAAB dirtbags are notorious to fudge data. They have also fudged GirppenE as supercruise capable.

 

[ObiWanKenobi]

Can someone explain how come Gripen E // F variants that is slightly bigger in terms of length and width, has higher empty weight and same fuel capacity as Tejas Mk2 and also powered by almost similar F414 engine with same rated maximum thrust of 98 kN is giving much higher payload of 7200 kg compared to Tejas Mk2's 6500 kg ?
i remember previously they stated it as 5300 kg even till very recently in 2021 that got increased as 6500 kg and now it is 7200 kg on Gripen E ? how come such dramatic increase of payload happening on same jet in barely one-two years ? is there some sort of development going on with Gripen-E or just...

You have to use the ratio of MTOW to empty weight to answer this. That would account for internal fuel differences. Length and width is meaningless.

(MTOW - empty weight) / MTOW = payload fraction

Whichever has a higher payload fraction, is the 'lighter' aircraft...

Gripen C: 0.51(MTOW: 14t, empty: 6.8t) [0.49 if empty doesn't include two FOX2s]
Gripen E: 0.51 (MTOW: 16.5, empty: 8t)
Tejas Mk1: 0.48 (MTOW: 13.5t, empty: 6.5t)
Tejas Mk2: ? (MTOW: 17.5t, empty: ?)

Canards giving Gripen C the advantage in CLmax, hence MTOW. Its not only the additional lift from canards, but the lack of elevator deflection on main wing means you don't get a negative-lift pitch effect, and you don't loose a whole 4-5% lift from the main wing either.

Tejas Mk2 obviously has no such disadvantage. With its already larger wing area, and now the canards as well - it seems like it will leave the runway with a whole ton over the Gripen E.

PS: I don't know if the Gripen figures are for the Swedish winter from low lying airfields or standard conditions. Thats a 10-15% difference in thrust right there. Indian conditions are even worse than standard conditions.

 

[NutCracker]

Can someone explain how come Gripen E // F variants that is slightly bigger in terms of length and width, has higher empty weight and same fuel capacity as Tejas Mk2 and also powered by almost similar F414 engine with same rated maximum thrust of 98 kN is giving much higher payload of 7200 kg compared to Tejas Mk2's 6500 kg ?
i remember previously they stated it as 5300 kg even till very recently in 2021 that got increased as 6500 kg and now it is 7200 kg on Gripen E ? how come such dramatic increase of payload happening on same jet in barely one-two years ? is there some sort of development going on with Gripen-E or just...

Payload = everything on external pylons .
X= internal fuel
Y=External payload (arma + fuel tanks)

MTOW = X + Y + empty weight.

As per my theory, since it's MTOW hasn't changed since long time.
After some modifications on wings, GrippenE can carry "Z" more on external that increases"payload",

but you have to sacrifice Z amount from the internal fuel at the cost of range.
Thats how it's fudged.

 

[MirageBlue]

Can someone explain how come Gripen E // F variants that is slightly bigger in terms of length and width, has higher empty weight and same fuel capacity as Tejas Mk2 and also powered by almost similar F414 engine with same rated maximum thrust of 98 kN is giving much higher payload of 7200 kg compared to Tejas Mk2's 6500 kg ?
i remember previously they stated it as 5300 kg even till very recently in 2021 that got increased as 6500 kg and now it is 7200 kg on Gripen E ? how come such dramatic increase of payload happening on same jet in barely one-two years ? is there some sort of development going on with Gripen-E or just...

They are masters of PR and presenting data in a very different way. Unfortunately, all those competitions where they participate, they need to present real data backed by guarantees and then they fall short. They haven't been able to make a single sale since Brazil chose the Gripen E. That should tell you something.

 

[Bleh]

They didn't change the wing area. They perhaps changed the wing fuel tanks and strengthened it for more load .. but the wing area and shape are exactly the same.

The wing area changed.. 38.5m2 in LCA to 44m2 in MWF. The wings are longer to make up for widened fuselage.

 

[ObiWanKenobi]

The wing area changed.. 38.5m2 in LCA to 44m2 in MWF. The wings are longer to make up for widened fuselage.

Canards?

 

[MonaLazy]

Spoiler

IAF is seeking to equip 10 squadrons in total with the Tejas Mk 2: IHS Janes

Update: India sanctions Tejas Mk 2 fighter project

The Indian government has officially approved the Tejas Mk 2 fighter aircraft. The project has been sanctioned with INR66.17 billion (USD827 million) in funding.

www.janes.com

The Indian government has officially approved the Tejas Mk 2 fighter aircraft. The project has been sanctioned with INR66.17 billion (USD827 million) in funding.

The government's Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) approved the project for development, flight-testing, and certification on 1 September. The Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal V R Chaudhari told local media later that same day that the project will help reverse the Indian Air Force's (IAF's) declining squadron strength.

“The development of this indigenous aircraft is much needed. It will benefit the domestic aircraft manufacturing,” ACM Chaudhari said. “The number of squadrons in the Indian Air Force is declining − so therefore this project is necessary to fill a critical capability void.”

In July 2022 ACM Chaudhari said that the IAF would seek to equip six squadrons with the Mk 2. The IAF told Janes that it would like to induct the Mk 2s as soon as possible.

“With roughly 18 aircraft per squadron, we have an initial requirement for roughly about 108 aircraft,” an IAF source said.

Janes has learnt that the IAF is seeking to equip 10 squadrons in total with the Mk 2. However, it is unlikely that the aircraft will be made available to the air force before 2029−30.

The Mk 2 project completed its Critical Design Review (CDR) of the first prototype in November 2021. However, the project suffered from funding deficits, according to asource in the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).

 

[MonaLazy]

Goi is dragging IAF along until mwf starts production.

Spoiler

I better understand this sheepish video by Air Chief Chowdhay in light of this observation by BRF poster
Quote: "Sky-stars being pounded everyday. Being threatened with loss of control if they drag their feet any more. " https://youtu.be/SRUG7-sAQ0w

Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019 - Page 55 - Bharat Rakshak

There's some inside info in that cryptic post if someone could decipher.. but it does look like 114 MRFA is dead and Mk2 is the way to go.

 

[Blademaster]

Who is sky-stars? The air marshals? Land stars? the IA generals?

 

[MonaLazy]

Who is sky-stars? The air marshals? Land stars? the IA generals?

Pretty obvious. I'm interested in "C-type took over ADA 4 years back"- wut?

 

[Anonymouse]

Pretty obvious. I'm interested in "C-type took over ADA 4 years back"- wut?

Cmde. Balaji took over head of ADA in 2018. This guy is just BSing with cryptic code.

 

[NutCracker]

Cmde. Balaji took over head of ADA in 2018. This guy is just BSing with cryptic code.

2015..

 

[Vamsi]

Spoiler

I better understand this sheepish video by Air Chief Chowdhay in light of this observation by BRF poster
Quote: "Sky-stars being pounded everyday. Being threatened with loss of control if they drag their feet any more. " https://youtu.be/SRUG7-sAQ0w

Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019 - Page 55 - Bharat Rakshak

View attachment 170805

There's some inside info in that cryptic post if someone could decipher.. but it does look like 114 MRFA is dead and Mk2 is the way to go.

If true, then Ninda turtle is absolutely based imo. Enough reason for me to vote for him in next election

 

[Vamsi]

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Some firm official deadlines finally!
This sounds like its enough for around 7 squadrons?
Do we got the sauce?