ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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Zebra

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[Here I am posting an article by an American author (Name at the end). The article contains very negative analysis (with very little positive analysis) of Indian capabilities as a fighter jet producer. I shall say that he is mocking Tejas. Strong heart needed to read. About: Tejas Mk1. Are you agreed with his views?]

T H E L I G H T W E I G H T C O M P O N E N T
THE TEJAS MARK 1

............................
.............................
Author: Ashley J. Tellis
Source Article: TROUBLES, THEY COME IN BATTALIONS
Subject/About: The Manifold Travails of the Indian Air Force
© 2016 Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

Did I missed source link in your post......!

Anyway, let me post it here ---> http://carnegieendowment.org/files/Tellis_IAF_final.pdf
 

Superdefender

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Don't worry about these Articles by so called Experts.

Most of the Critics were silenced in Bahrain Airshow.

On IAF Day, we will have Tejas flypast.

Next, watch out Tejas performance in Aero India 2017 between 6-9 Feb.
Yes, perhaps that so called "export" had written it before BIAS. Now after watching Tejas there, I am rest assured that he will never utter more words against Tejas, atleast.
 

sorcerer

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India’s Lethal 2204kmph 4.5 Generation Tejas Fighter Jet

India’s elite indigenous fighter jet crosses a major benchmark this week ahead of being deemed combat ready providing the country with a masterful fighter jet at a fraction of the cost of Western fighter jets.

India entered a new era in its budding arms manufacturing industry this week when the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) completed its maiden flight without incident ahead of the vaunted fighter jet being deemed ready for combat applications giving the Indian people a potentially major new industry and saving the country’s taxpayers a massive amount of money on providing for their national defense.

The Indian Air Force’s (IAF) third series production of the Tejas LCA, nicknamed Tejas-SP3, completed its first maiden flight in Bangalore on September 28 with the sortie lasting 15 minutes during which time the performance of the aircraft was tested.

"The flight was restricted to just 15 minutes due to low-hanging clouds, but it was enough to profile it in detail," said Gopal Suttar, spokesman for Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL).

The fighter jet awaits two more test flights in the coming days before the aircraft will be transferred to the possession of the Indian Air Force with the Tejas-SP3 expected to join two earlier Tejas LCA in the Indian Air Force during this year’s 84th Air Force Day parade on October 8th just outside of New Delhi.

Western defense analysts have largely criticized the Tejas LCA as inferior to its Western counterparts citing over 50 flaws in the fighter jet discovered upon analysis – a number that seems overwhelming but is far from unusual for high-end aircraft following production.

The Tejas LCA, however, flies at a swift clip of 1,370 MPH (2204kmh) with advanced thrust shifting capabilities making the jet an elite aircraft for dogfights and its small size provides it will stealth-like characteristics with a reduced radar signature and the jet costs only $33 million per unit compared to $40-50 million for F16s or $100 million for the Rafale.


India also hopes that an indigenous fighter jet will allow the Indian Air Force to modify the jet to its specifics providing it a practical edge in the air unlike with the purchase of Western fighter jets which not only payments to foreign defense contractors but also often slow down repairs and modifications.

The onboard technologies on the Tejas LCA include Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missile firing capability along with a highly advanced radar system providing for the system to put the nearly three tons of weapons it is certified to carry – including laser-guided 500kg (1,102lbs) bombs and short-range R-73 missiles – to full use.
https://sputniknews.com/military/20161002/1045930017/india-tejas-fighter-jet-maiden.html
 

tejas warrior

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India’s Lethal 2204kmph 4.5 Generation Tejas Fighter Jet

India’s elite indigenous fighter jet crosses a major benchmark this week ahead of being deemed combat ready providing the country with a masterful fighter jet at a fraction of the cost of Western fighter jets.

India entered a new era in its budding arms manufacturing industry this week when the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) completed its maiden flight without incident ahead of the vaunted fighter jet being deemed ready for combat applications giving the Indian people a potentially major new industry and saving the country’s taxpayers a massive amount of money on providing for their national defense.

The Indian Air Force’s (IAF) third series production of the Tejas LCA, nicknamed Tejas-SP3, completed its first maiden flight in Bangalore on September 28 with the sortie lasting 15 minutes during which time the performance of the aircraft was tested.

"The flight was restricted to just 15 minutes due to low-hanging clouds, but it was enough to profile it in detail," said Gopal Suttar, spokesman for Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL).

The fighter jet awaits two more test flights in the coming days before the aircraft will be transferred to the possession of the Indian Air Force with the Tejas-SP3 expected to join two earlier Tejas LCA in the Indian Air Force during this year’s 84th Air Force Day parade on October 8th just outside of New Delhi.

Western defense analysts have largely criticized the Tejas LCA as inferior to its Western counterparts citing over 50 flaws in the fighter jet discovered upon analysis – a number that seems overwhelming but is far from unusual for high-end aircraft following production.

The Tejas LCA, however, flies at a swift clip of 1,370 MPH (2204kmh) with advanced thrust shifting capabilities making the jet an elite aircraft for dogfights and its small size provides it will stealth-like characteristics with a reduced radar signature and the jet costs only $33 million per unit compared to $40-50 million for F16s or $100 million for the Rafale.


India also hopes that an indigenous fighter jet will allow the Indian Air Force to modify the jet to its specifics providing it a practical edge in the air unlike with the purchase of Western fighter jets which not only payments to foreign defense contractors but also often slow down repairs and modifications.

The onboard technologies on the Tejas LCA include Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missile firing capability along with a highly advanced radar system providing for the system to put the nearly three tons of weapons it is certified to carry – including laser-guided 500kg (1,102lbs) bombs and short-range R-73 missiles – to full use.
https://sputniknews.com/military/20161002/1045930017/india-tejas-fighter-jet-maiden.html

Good to see Foreign media have started calling Tejas a Lethal 4.5 Generation fighter !!
 

Adioz

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India’s Lethal 2204kmph 4.5 Generation Tejas Fighter Jet
Western defense analysts have largely criticized the Tejas LCA as inferior to its Western counterparts citing over 50 flaws in the fighter jet discovered upon analysis – a number that seems overwhelming but is far from unusual for high-end aircraft following production.
Waiting for the day when Tejas flies in Indradhanush and red flag exercises.:drool:
Would be more than enough to silence these bloody "western defense analysts".:hat:
 

ezsasa

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Waiting for the day when Tejas flies in Indradhanush and red flag exercises.:drool:
Would be more than enough to silence these bloody "western defense analysts".:hat:
Don't think single engine aircrafts are taken there....
 

abingdonboy

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[Here I am posting an article by an American author (Name at the end). The article contains very negative analysis (with very little positive analysis) of Indian capabilities as a fighter jet producer. I shall say that he is mocking Tejas. Strong heart needed to read. About: Tejas Mk1. Are you agreed with his views?]




T H E L I G H T W E I G H T C O M P O N E N T


THE TEJAS MARK 1

For many years, the IAF resisted the notion that the Tejas Mark 1 was an adequate combat

aircraft because of its myriad weaknesses. It accepted the lightweight fighter in small numbers

only in test units with a series of waivers to its desired requirements. The many shortcomings

of the aircraft are by now well-known: it was developed by civilian design bureaucracies—

primarily the Aeronautical Development Agency in collaboration with Hindustan

Aeronautics Limited—without any significant IAF input until very late in the engineering

and manufacturing development phase.

The net result was an aircraft that is overweight, possesses a suboptimal thrust-to-weight

ratio despite the heavy use of composites, has poor energy addition and a limited top speed,

and an egregious ergonomic design of the cockpit. Even the aircraft’s remarkable instantaneous

turn capability—superior to that of the MiG-21—does not compensate for the limitations

of its compound delta wing design, which, like other aircraft with similar planforms,

produces an extremely high airspeed bleed-off rate in any turning fight. As one Indian

engineer, Prodyut Das, savagely concluded, “We have a fairly mediocre fighter somewhere

between the Gnat F1 and the MiG-21 on our hands.”

For all of the shortcomings of the Tejas, what is perhaps most attractive to the government

of India right now is its supposedly low cost. The Tejas Mark 1 is advertised as costing

somewhere in the vicinity of $38 million apiece. If the development cost of the program

thus far—some $2.7 billion—is factored in, the unit cost of each aircraft rises to about $60

million, which if true would be about 72 percent of the price of the Gripen NG offered to

Norway in 2008. The publicized price of the Tejas, however, must be taken with a grain

of salt: senior Indian aerospace industry insiders expect that the aircraft will cost closer to

$50 million each and that its unit cost would actually rise to about $80 million when its

development bills are included. If true, the Tejas may end up being somewhat cheaper than

the least expensive foreign competitor on the horizon, the Gripen NG.

But the critical question that is as yet unanswerable is how much cheaper it would be, an issue

that bears fundamentally on the matter of cost effectiveness. Given the Gripen’s impressive

air combat capabilities, operational flexibility, and low operating and life-cycle costs,

it would be hard to make the case that the Tejas is, even at the low end of the cost range,

more than 72 percent as capable as its Swedish peer. That argument will become even more

untenable as the expenses of the ongoing rectification initiatives are added to the overall

development costs of the Light Combat Aircraft program. At $80 million per unit, the cost

effectiveness of the Tejas as compared to the Gripen NG disappears almost entirely, leaving

the IAF with a fighter in its inventory that is pricey, hard to maintain, and ultimately

suboptimal for the swing-role mission.

In any event, the lure of lower costs, however marginal the difference, appears to have

swayed the Modi government’s decision in favor of the Tejas. This accountant’s approach

to force modernization may be understandable, given the fiscal pressures on the Indian defense

budget, but it hardly meets the test of cost effectiveness, let alone mission superiority. Despite the

fact that it is still not obvious whether the domestic manufacturer, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited,

has the production capability to build the Tejas Mark 1 in the numbers required annually, the Ministry

of Defense has obliged the IAF to acquire six squadrons of this improved version to replace the

early model MiG-21s that will be retired in a few years. This translates into 126 aircraft, with

108 deployed in squadron service and the rest stored as maintenance, attrition, and war

wastage reserves.

Because no other alternatives appear to be viable, acquiring some 100-odd upgraded Tejas Mark

1s seemed to be the best solution that the government of India could come up with at this

point, despite the IAF’s well-founded and continuing reservations about the aircraft’s

performance. Some of the limitations of the Tejas will be addressed through specific fixes: it

appears that the final production version will be equipped for air-to-air refueling; will have an

Israeli active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, the EL/M- 2052, as its principal sensor; and

will be equipped with an Israeli weapons suite, consisting of Python short-range infrared-guided

and Derby long-range active radar-guided air-to-air missiles, besides various other free-fall

and precision-guided air-to-ground munitions.

With such improvements, the Tejas Mark 1 could be transformed into a serviceable fighter,

thirty years after its conception, but its aerodynamic deficiencies will almost certainly be

harder to correct. The claims from early 2016, as reported in the Indian newspaper Tribune,

that remediation engineering will produce an aircraft that is “1,000 [kilograms] lighter than

the existing version” are simply laughable. Consequently, it is still too early to declare, as

one unidentified Indian defense official did in an interview with the Times of India, that

the Tejas “will be more than able to outgun the similar JF-17, which Pakistan is acquiring

with China’s help,” let alone surpass the Chinese J-10, which has also turned out to be an

impressive lightweight fourth-generation combatant.

Whether the Tejas ends up being superior to such comparable adversaries will depend on

many things, especially the aircraft’s flight performance; the quality of the situational awareness

enjoyed by its pilot, which hinges in substantial measure on its radar detection and

tracking range and the effectiveness of its integration with other onboard and offboard

sensors; the quality of its air-to-air weaponry, including their maximum kinematic range

and, more important, the size of their no-escape zone, the effectiveness of their guidance

systems, and their levels of electronic protection; as well as the sophistication of the aircraft’s

air-to-ground munitions and their associated targeting systems; and the sophistication of its

defensive avionics suites.

There are reasons for concern in some of these areas. A detailed evaluation of the Tejas as

an air-to-air fighter, both intrinsically and in relation to its rivals, cannot be undertaken

here, but the following issues are worth considering. For starters, it is unlikely that the

aircraft’s thrust and maximum speed can be dramatically improved at this juncture because

its General Electric F404 engine unfortunately cannot be replaced by the advanced General

Electric F414-INS6 successor without major modifications to the airframe—and, by implication,

without further delays in acquiring an aircraft that is unlikely to complete entering

service before the first quarter of this century. A high top speed is irrelevant for close-in

maneuvering, but it can make a huge difference in a fighter’s ability to engage and disengage

at will; a high thrust-to-weight ratio, meanwhile, is desirable, especially in maneuvering

air-to-air combat, because it affects a fighter’s climbing, acceleration, and sustained G performance,

giving it great advantages especially in the vertical plane and allowing it to regain

energy quickly after high-G maneuvers. The Tejas’s limited top speed and thrust-to-weight

ratio in particular will force the IAF to develop air combat tactics that minimize its vulnerabilities—

the latter especially in regard to vertical performance—given that the aircraft will

have to live with the General Electric F404 engine permanently. This is especially true given

that the IAF has decided to drop the Mark 2 variant, which was supposed to be powered by

the General Electric F414-INS6 engine; instead, all the Tejas fighters, in both Mark 1 and

Mark 1A variants, will be powered only by the General Electric F404.

Complicating matters further, the performance of the Israeli EL/M-2052 radar, the successor

to the EL/M-2032 that now equips the Tejas, is unknown because the system is still in

development. If the Tejas is to be able to pull off successful first-look, first-shot, first-kill air

engagements against comparable opponents without airborne warning and control system

(AWACS) support, its EL/M-2052 radar will have to perform significantly better than the

EL/M-2032 radar does in comparison to KLJ-7 radar that equips all fourth-generation

Chinese-origin fighters. Of particular concern is the troubling report that the EL/M-2052

radar, which Elta is supposed to co-develop with India’s Defense Research and Development

Organization, might already have been transferred to (or stolen by) China—a development

that, if true, could imply future transfers of some of its key capabilities to Pakistan.

The decision to equip the Tejas with the EL/M-2052, rather than some alternative

such as the U.S. Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR) or the Raytheon Advanced Combat

Radar (RACR)—both AESA radar systems—was apparently reached because Elta offered

the Defense Research and Development Organization the prospect of co-development.

While it is hoped that this gamble will pay off over time, the fact remains that the EL/M-

2052 is a developmental AESA radar that is not yet fielded on any combat aircraft, let alone

on Israel’s own fighters that are equipped largely, though not exclusively, with U.S. sensors

and weapons.

In comparison, the Israeli weapons suite intended for the Tejas offers more promising prospects.

The Derby active radar-guided air-to-air missile that will be the aircraft’s primary

beyond-visual-range weapon is excellent, with superb electronic protection features and a

range of pulse repetition frequencies that provide high accuracy in the intercept endgame.

But it is shorter-ranged than the comparable active missiles carried by Chinese fighters, the

Chinese PL-12, and by Pakistani fighters, the U.S. AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range

Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM). The versions already in Indian employ do not have a data

link, which presumably will be added as it is integrated with the Tejas’s EL/M-2052 radar.

These limitations will matter less in short-range engagements, but in the AWACS-supported

beyond-visual-range combat that will increasingly become the norm in southern Asia,

they could turn out to be costly. The Python 4 within-visual-range missile that the Tejas

is likely to carry, in contrast, outclasses anything India’s adversaries can bring to a close-in

fight, and the Israeli display and sight helmet (DASH) mounted sight will enable Indian pilots

to target adversaries in the beam or in other difficult geometries without having to pivot

the entire aircraft. Success in maneuvering combat, however—especially when it involves

multiple adversaries—is as much a product of comparative pilot proficiency and luck as it

is a function of technological superiority. The odds of success in this aerial combat regime,

therefore, will increase greatly if the Tejas is gradually armed with the even better Python

5, a weapon with significant range and countermeasure advantages over all the short-range

air-to-air missiles now carried by Chinese and Pakistani combatants.

Finally, the Tejas’s defensive avionics will need appropriate improvement if the aircraft is to

dominate the kind of combat to be expected in the future. The aircraft’s electronic warfare

suite has the four basic subsystems—a radar warning receiver, a missile approach warning

system, chaff and flares, and an automated countermeasures dispensing system—carried by

modern fighters, except for an onboard self-protection jammer. The solution now settled

upon seems to be a podded system, mostly likely the EL/L-8222, which is already carried

by several other IAF fighters. The EL/L-8222 is an excellent narrowband digital radio

frequency memory (DRFM) system. It is almost certainly superior to the Chinese KG300

DRFM-based jammer, which equips the JF-17; whether it surpasses the defensive avionics

system on the J-10 is unclear.

In any event, coping with Chinese airborne electronic warfare capabilities will be the test

facing the EL/L-8222, because although Pakistani capabilities are modest, the equivalent

Chinese threat is not. China’s airborne electronic warfare investments are enormous, with

diverse and often high-powered systems equipping fighter aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles,

and dedicated standoff jammer aircraft; they have also historically profited immensely

from both Russian and Israeli technology. A key component of Tejas modernization will,

therefore, have to include focused investments in upgrading its electronic warfare suites

to keep up with the Chinese fighters and combat support aircraft it is likely to encounter.

The critical issue here, however, is not simply improving specific components such as the radar

warning receiver or the missile approach warning systems or the self-protection jammer.

More important, the entire defensive avionics suite needs to be sufficiently integrated with the

new EL/M-2052 AESA radar to enable those jam-and-search, jam and-track, & jam-and-shoot

capabilities that would give it the upper hand in the face of its other maneuvering and energy state

deficiencies in air combat.

All this adds up to the sobering conclusion

that the Tejas has potential but that it is a

mixed bag. Accordingly, the Indian government

should be cautious about pushing

ahead with plans to acquire more than the six squadrons currently authorized until the

shortcomings of the aircraft as an aerodynamic platform and as a combat system are satisfactorily

addressed. Of those two deficiencies, the combat system may be easier to fix: the

IAF at least has the option of selecting the SABR or the RACR at some future point if the

EL/M-2052 does not deliver according to expectations, and the U.S. government has released

the AMRAAM for integration with the Tejas if India seeks to acquire this weapon in

addition to the Derby. Such a shift, however, is likely to be both time-consuming and costly,

and so one can only hope that the contemplated Israeli systems work as advertised. The

integration of any sophisticated AESA radar would transform the Tejas into at least a useful

standoff air intercept platform, especially when operating over Indian territory or above the

interstitial battlefields in southern Asia. Even with improvements, however, it is unlikely to

ever become a sophisticated air superiority fighter capable of operating in depth or successfully

against high-end opponents. But if its problems can be sufficiently corrected to allow

its acquisition in larger numbers—say, twelve squadrons, a prospect with which the IAF is

extremely uncomfortable, and for good reason—the shortcomings in the IAF’s lightweight

fighter force could arguably be mitigated, albeit with a compromise in capabilities in regard

to the all-weather point air defense and strike missions.

Serious problems would arise, however, if efforts to improve the Tejas fail to yield a satisfactory

outcome, because that would leave the service with a huge gap at the low end of

the force, given the hopes that this aircraft could still come to serve as the IAF’s principal

short-range air defense fighter and the backbone of its light multirole component. In such

circumstances, the IAF would be compelled to consider further expanding the medium (30

tons or less) and heavyweight (40 tons or less) segments of the combat aircraft inventory.

Such an outcome would bring considerable increases in war fighting capability, but at much

higher costs at exactly the time when the service is struggling to find the resources to fund

its medium-weight aircraft requirements as well as its future heavy acquisitions.

Author: Ashley J. Tellis

Source Article: TROUBLES, THEY COME IN BATTALIONS

Subject/About: The Manifold Travails of the Indian Air Force

© 2016 Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
Ashley Tellis seems to have made a career from criticising the IAF in every way possible since the IAF dumped the Americans fighters during the MMRCA , I don't bother reading his rants anymore.
 
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abingdonboy

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Don't think single engine aircrafts are taken there....
Indradhunush is held in India every other year and there is no technical reason why the IAF couldn't take their LCAs to Red Flag (UAE and French have taken mirages in the past) but I doubt they would as the IAF goes to Red Flag to practice/develop their offensive strike tactics.


It will be interesting to test the LCAs at home against the RSAF F-16 Blk.52s deployed to India.
 

mahesh

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If given a option to place a Rafale missile to fit on Tejas, can the Meteor BVR missile be equipped on Tejas, ? can Tejas handle that Far Long range targeting of meteor missile effectively ? that would be a mind blowing combination of may be like SU-30mki giving a target to much lesser radar signature Tejas to engage comfortably, this would be a nice combo.
 

Superdefender

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If given a option to place a Rafale missile to fit on Tejas, can the Meteor BVR missile be equipped on Tejas, ? can Tejas handle that Far Long range targeting of meteor missile effectively ? that would be a mind blowing combination of may be like SU-30mki giving a target to much lesser radar signature Tejas to engage comfortably, this would be a nice combo.
Tejas doesn't need Meteor. If we succeed in integrating Astra Mk. 2 with Tejas, it will be more than enough. It's primary job is an interceptor. I don't know which one will detect the other first in war between Tejas & F-16. But irrespective of what happens, Tejas will intercept F-16 as it will has 150km range Astra Mk.2. Pak will never have BVRAAMs of such range. F-16 medium bird will be outclassed by a Tejas light bird. Forget Su-30MKI or Rafale. They are for China centric.
 

Raj Malhotra

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It seems that we are also developing Ramjet AAM missile, Astra-3, which might each Indian service along with Meteor
 

tejas warrior

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Tejas doesn't need Meteor. If we succeed in integrating Astra Mk. 2 with Tejas, it will be more than enough. It's primary job is an interceptor. I don't know which one will detect the other first in war between Tejas & F-16. But irrespective of what happens, Tejas will intercept F-16 as it will has 150km range Astra Mk.2. Pak will never have BVRAAMs of such range. F-16 medium bird will be outclassed by a Tejas light bird. Forget Su-30MKI or Rafale. They are for China centric.
Tejas will detect F16s (what Pakis have) before F16s will detect them.

It's due to small size + composite materials used in Tejas.

BUT Tejas is a light combat aircraft , not an air superiority aircraft. Lets leave that to SU30mki.
We have 272 of them. So chances of F16 meeting Su30s are more than meetings with Tejas.

*With new ASEA, situation will swing in favour of Tejas in a long way.
 
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sorcerer

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Waiting for the day when Tejas flies in Indradhanush and red flag exercises.:drool:
Would be more than enough to silence these bloody "western defense analysts".:hat:


You will have your chance Adioz..you will have your chance!!
30 characters of Burrrrrrrrrrrrp
 
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