A Chinese joke called ADIZ

[Tolaha]

For your own knowledge again, it is Air Defence Identification Zone not Chinese air space, everyone has the right to fly within it as much as Chinese fighter flying in Japanese air defence identification zone for past several years. The best that Chinese or Japanese can do is to send a military plane following the plane who refuse to identify itself and get ready to shoot it down at the moment it enters Chinese/Japanese air space.

Again having comprehension issues, are we?

China has demarcated an "air-defence identification zone" over an area of the East China Sea, covering islands that are also claimed by Japan.

China's Defence Ministry said aircraft entering the zone must obey its rules or face "emergency defensive measures".

Bolded by yours truly but just so that you don't miss it again (and again....).

 

[bennedose]

For your own knowledge again, it is Air Defence Identification Zone not Chinese air space, everyone has the right to fly within it as much as Chinese fighter flying in Japanese air defence identification zone for past several years. The best that Chinese or Japanese can do is to send a military plane following the plane who refuse to identify itself and get ready to shoot it down at the moment it enters Chinese/Japanese air space.

OK that is a sensible and reasonable answer. Thanks.

But the language used in the announcements suggest that there is someone in the Chinese government who is trying to send some "We are strong and have a big one" signal to someone else. It is possible that the signal is directed towards someone in China rather than the US, Japan and Korea.

Interesting, if nothing else. Political dissent and disagreements in China sometimes reflect in posturing - and I would keep an open mind on this ADIZ business - it may be someone trying to deflect criticism about "weakness" in China.

 

[happy]

For your own knowledge again, it is Air Defence Identification Zone not Chinese air space, everyone has the right to fly within it as much as Chinese fighter flying in Japanese air defence identification zone for past several years. The best that Chinese or Japanese can do is to send a military plane following the plane who refuse to identify itself and get ready to shoot it down at the moment it enters Chinese/Japanese air space.

Guess your CCP interlocutors would be displeased with you for toeing a line different from your generals (OR CCP HAS BACKTRACKED FROM ITS ORIGINAL THREAT !!!!). What a subtle way of conveying this message :thumb:

 

[kseeker]

India for peaceful resolution of Chinese air defence zone row

Last Updated: Thursday, December 05, 2013, 16:48
New Delhi: India on Thursday called for "peaceful" resolution of the spat over China's new air defence zone, which is likely to adversely impact Air India flights to Japan.

Asserting that it does not support "threat as well as use of force" in the matter, India also refused to take sides.

"When you ask key people to do a dialogue, then you are on both sides," External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid said.

Asked about the current controversy over Chinese Air Defence Identification Zone (ADIZ), the minister said, "You know our position is the standard position that we believe in this region any issue must be resolved between the concerned parties through dialogue in a peaceful way.

"Both threat as well as use of force is something that we don't support. We certainly discourage that and we do continue to hope that the parties are responsible parties. They will be able to find ways to peacefully dialogue and find a solution."

He was speaking on the sidelines of an energy event here.

Last month, China announced a new ADIZ and said aircraft flying through the zone must follow its rules, including filing flight plans.

The ADIZ covers islands claimed and controlled by Japan, and a submerged rock claimed by South Korea.

The implementation is also likely to adversely impact Air India's Boeing 787 Dreamliners on the New Delhi-Tokyo route due to extremely narrow flight corridor being enforced by China in its airspace.

Now IA has to rework the flight path procedure to avoid the dangerous cumulonimbus clouds, which pervade the Chinese airspace and cause ice crystals to accumulate on the engine when the plane is above 30,000 feet.

Meanwhile, the US, Japan and South Korea have rejected China's ADIZ and flown undeclared military aircraft through it prompting China to harden its stance on the implementation of new defence zone over the disputed islands in the East China Sea saying its military has "unwavering" will to enforce it.

- PTI

 

[kseeker]

BEIJING: US Vice President Joe Biden has told Chinese President Xi Jinping that Washington will not recognise Beijing's new air defence zone over disputed islands in the East China Sea and asked him to take steps to reduce tensions arisen out of the unilateral move.

In a five-and-half hour long meeting with President Xi over dinner last night with handful aides, Biden had a "back and forth" conversation on the air defence identification zone (ADIZ) and a host of other bilateral issues.

"They covered every single topic in the US-China relationship. The conversation was very much a back-and-forth. It reflected the casual candor that the two leaders have developed," a US official said in his briefing after the meeting.

On the issue of the air defence zone, "the vice president laid out our position in detail," the official said.

"He indicated that we don't recognize the zone, that we have deep concerns."

Biden told Xi that "We are looking to China to take steps to reduce tensions."

On his part, "President Xi was equally clear in laying out their view of the zone and of territorial disputes in the region," the official said.

"He indicated that we don't recognize the zone, that we have deep concerns."

Biden told Xi that "We are looking to China to take steps to reduce tensions."

On his part, "President Xi was equally clear in laying out their view of the zone and of territorial disputes in the region," the official said.

"Ultimately, President Xi took on board what the vice president said. It's up to China, and we'll see how things will unfold in the coming days and weeks," the official sai ..

Read more at:
US will not recognise China's air defence zone: Biden tells Xi - The Economic Times

 

[W.G.Ewald]

 

[t_co]

Put up some AEW&C, missile destroyers, fighter patrols, maybe an aircraft or two - and invite the US to put as many floating eggs in the shadow of land-based Chinese sensors and launchers as possible to make a political point?

 

[t_co]

China Matters: Del Rosario Not Afraid to Be Stupid About ADIZ

We live in interesting times, at least as far as the PRC is concerned. Entire articles are spun out of threat perceptions, assumptions, inferences, assertions, and indignation.

The stirring call to arms is the "threat" that "raised concerns". There is "alarm".

Facts don't matter. To quote the song, It's feelings...nothing more than feelings..."

That, by the way, is why my current twitter handle is "Facts are stupid things".

Facts might be confirmed or rebutted by the focus of scrutiny and concern. But feelings are a subjective matter for the observer.


The only suitable recourse is "confidence-building"; and in some situations that oppressive sense of threat in the Western bosom is never relieved, no matter what the anxiety-provoking other does.

People with long memories (only me I guess) remember the run-up to the Iraq War, when everything that Saddam Hussein did or didn't do in his efforts to forestall the invasion were insufficient to allay the dreaded concerns. Until recently, the same tactic was used to declare that Iran was unable to allay the concerns of the international community about its nuclear program. Now the U.S. is reassured...but Israel isn't. What's a mullah to do?

The media variation is to blame the victim, i.e. blame the PRC for its disinterest or clumsiness in getting its message across to "allay the concerns" and "build confidence".


The whole concern/confidence-building dynamic is fundamentally flawed. Make that "logically unsound". Maybe "intellectually dishonest".

And I think it's deployed when the "concerned party" is unwilling to say what is genuinely on its mind.

For China, the ultimate confidence-building gesture for the West would be "Could the Chinese Communist Party please collapse under a wave of popular democratic unrest, the Chinese economy undergo a painful free market restructuring, and the PLA footprint get shrunk by a combination of budget reductions, mission modification, demoralization, and conciliation by a new pro-Western liberal democratic government?"

Don't be afraid. Ask for it!

And if you can't get it, start wondering if you're asking for the wrong thing.

I see a lot of idealists on DFI - people who wish for things relating to China where the costs are immediate, but the benefits to their own country will not happen without risking nuclear war.

 

[nimo_cn]

China Matters: Del Rosario Not Afraid to Be Stupid About ADIZ



I see a lot of idealists on DFI - people who wish for things relating to China where the costs are immediate, but the benefits to their own country will not happen without risking nuclear war.

i like the part where the author talks about the ultimate confidence building gesture for the west, sarcastic but very insightful!

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Tolaha]

China Matters: Del Rosario Not Afraid to Be Stupid About ADIZ



I see a lot of idealists on DFI - people who wish for things relating to China where the costs are immediate, but the benefits to their own country will not happen without risking nuclear war.

i like the part where the author talks about the ultimate confidence building gesture for the west, sarcastic but very insightful!

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

A blog (chinamatters.blogspot.com.au and posted by one named "China Hand" ) that is forced to use words like "stupid", "horse shit", "half cocked", "clueless strutting", "inflammatory blathering", "nothingburger", "piece of snark" and maybe more, to make its point, is an absolute winner! :thumb:

 

[happy]

China Matters: Del Rosario Not Afraid to Be Stupid About ADIZ



I see a lot of idealists on DFI - people who wish for things relating to China where the costs are immediate, but the benefits to their own country will not happen without risking nuclear war.

Wow !!! The interlocutor finally steps in !!! All hail !!!

Wait wait....how did you say it ????

With Horse Shit !!!!

Is it, How ???

Why, by quoting a blog (or rather a personal opinion) full of BS of course !! (BTW the above Horse Shit is taken from the 1st observation of that blog )

To the great interlocutor I ask a simple question. Does China risk nuclear war to get benefits ???

 

[asianobserve]

South Korea to Extend Defense Zone in Reaction to China
By Yewon Kang & Sam Kim - Dec 8, 2013
Bloomberg

South Korea will extend its air-defense identification zone to cover islands and an underwater rock, adding to regional tensions escalated since China last month declared control over airspace claimed by neighbors.

The nation's ADIZ will cover the islands of Marado and Hongdo and the underwater Ieodo seamount from Dec. 15, Kim Min Seok, a Ministry of Defense spokesman, said in a televised briefing in Seoul yesterday. China rejected a demand made Nov. 28 to exclude from its zone Socotra Rock, where South Korea operates a research station and heliport. The submerged rock, called Ieodo in Korean and Suyan in Chinese, also falls under Japan's air-defense zone.

"South Korea's announcement was not surprising, it was a tit-for-tat action" for the earlier Chinese move, Robert Kelly, an associate professor in the Department of Political Science & Diplomacy at Pusan National University, said by phone yesterday. "Tensions will rise and continue for years, now with three nations' overlapping zones."

The Chinese ADIZ covers a swathe of the East China Sea including islands at the center of a territorial dispute with Japan. The U.S., South Korea and Japan have all run unannounced military flights through the area in a test of Chinese resolve.

China has more than doubled defense spending since 2006 and continues modernizing its forces, even as the U.S. dedicates more military resources to the Asia-Pacific and Japan expands its own navy. The relative gap indicates China -- which also is advancing naval deployments in waters it claims in the South China Sea -- may be constrained to challenge incursions over East China Sea airspace.

Biden Comments

U.S. Vice President Joe Biden said Dec. 6 in Seoul that he had told Chinese leaders during his trip to Beijing that China's declaration wouldn't affect U.S. military operations in the region even as it increased the risk of miscalculations.

He spoke after receiving a briefing from President Park Geun Hye on South Korean's position regarding China's ADIZ when the two met in Seoul hours earlier, according to her presidential office.

"We appreciate the ROK's efforts to pursue this action in a responsible, deliberate fashion by prior consultations with the United States and its neighbors, including Japan and China," State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said yesterday in an e-mail, referring to South Korea's official name, the Republic of Korea.

Biden's trip to Japan, China and South Korea was originally intended to focus on the 12-nation Trans-Pacific Partnership trade pact and reinforce a renewed U.S. emphasis on the region. That agenda was overtaken by China's Nov. 23 ADIZ declaration.

As China gathers strength in the Asia-Pacific it will have to compete with a much larger U.S. military -- whose air force alone has more than 400 surveillance planes compared with 100 in all China's armed forces, for example -- as the Obama administration conducts what it calls a rebalance to the region.

South Korea to Extend Defense Zone in Reaction to China - Bloomberg

 

[no smoking]

Again having comprehension issues, are we?



Bolded by yours truly but just so that you don't miss it again (and again....).

Ok, you win!

In your dictionary, sending fighters to following foreign military plane is not "defensive measurement". I get it now.

 

[no smoking]

OK that is a sensible and reasonable answer. Thanks.

But the language used in the announcements suggest that there is someone in the Chinese government who is trying to send some "We are strong and have a big one" signal to someone else. It is possible that the signal is directed towards someone in China rather than the US, Japan and Korea.

Interesting, if nothing else. Political dissent and disagreements in China sometimes reflect in posturing - and I would keep an open mind on this ADIZ business - it may be someone trying to deflect criticism about "weakness" in China.

I don't think so!

The criticism is always there since 1945, but CCP already earned itself enough credit on foreign policy to offset these criticism

It is just a reflection of the progress of Chinese air defence capability. In the past, Chinese doesn't have the necessary means and equipments to manage such a ADIZ--J-7's range is too short, radars system can't cover the whole area and more importantly Chinese has no excuse.

Now, things changed: with the new fighters and completed radar network, they can monitor the whole area.

And the nationalization of disputed islands by Japan unilaterally, Chinese got their excuse.

 

[happy]

It is just a reflection of the progress of Chinese air defence capability. In the past, Chinese doesn't have the necessary means and equipments to manage such a ADIZ--J-7's range is too short, radars system can't cover the whole area and more importantly Chinese has no excuse.

And the nationalization of disputed islands by Japan unilaterally, Chinese got their excuse.

Your statement is wrong in the making. It should be, "China always had an excuse but, it didn't have the necessary means to enforce an ADZ and hence it did not do so until now."

Even now, china is not so much bothered about those islands as it is about the hydrocarbons which are plentiful under Japs ADZ. The islands have always been china's excuse.

AFAIK, China is just testing international reaction to its ADIZ. In the future, I fear that we would have to bear with more of chinese aggression.

 

[no smoking]

South Korea to Extend Defense Zone in Reaction to China
By Yewon Kang & Sam Kim - Dec 8, 2013
Bloomberg

South Korea to Extend Defense Zone in Reaction to China - Bloomberg

Are you sure that Chinese is the real target of this korea ADIZ expansion?

Look at the map in the link below

South Korea moves to expand its air defense zone | GlobalPost

Guess whose ADIZ covered the disputed Korea "Leodo" for 44 years----it is Japan, my friend.

So, Chinese just gives Korean an excuse to expand into the area used to be controlled by Japanese alone. It is really a good news for Japanese and Americans.

Now, we have to wait to see if Taiwanese has the gut to expand their ADIZ to cover "Diaoyu Tai".

 

[kseeker]

What would happen if all the states come up with their own ADIZs and cover disputed islands i.e. couple of rocks in the sea ?

It would be a stalemate situation for all right ?

 

[Sridhar]

 

[happy]

What would happen if all the states come up with their own ADIZs and cover disputed islands i.e. couple of rocks in the sea ?

It would be a stalemate situation for all right ?

Would love such a situation. It will help prove the hollowness in chinese threats.

 

[no smoking]

What would happen if all the states come up with their own ADIZs and cover disputed islands i.e. couple of rocks in the sea ?

It would be a stalemate situation for all right ?

Setting up an ADIZ is quite expensive, most of countries can't afford such a "money burning" game.