11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 injured

[sob]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

@Singh, first of all I am not really that ancient as you have portrayed me.

My point in asking for clarification from @Ray sir on the Lajpat Nagar Punjabis was because in all my years I have never heard of this term. I was only aware that Lajpat Nagar was one of the many resettlement colonies for people fleeing the partition. Model Town is another such colony, which is quite posh.

As per my Grandparents there was no question of being called a refugee because

1. They were shifting from one part of their own country to another.

2. Calling themselves refugee meant a defeatist mindset. That generation had a single point agenda to get back on their feet rather than exist on Government Dole.

In this thread I see lot of generalisation with the terms Punjabis/Sikhs. Those who have seen the history unfold in Punjab would know otherwise.

further about Punjabis/Sikhs being brave or coward I do not know, even after 6 decades of creation of Pakistan my family still has the Zamindari in Pakistan and are doing well for themselves. The lands are still more or less intact-- and all this by still remaining hindus.

 

[sob]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

Why do you even bother to enter discussions?

Just in case your extended stay has not enlightened you, I shall spend a few precious moments changing the fuse of your enlightenment bulb.

(Ya, I know, I am going to miss these few minutes of my life......The moments lost for eternity)

You see, you are not meant for political discussions. And most definitely you should stay away from intellectual ones.

As far as technical ones are concerned. You presence or the lack of it is of no concern to anyone. You actually need to be at least a teenager in ur head to attempt to understand technical terms...

Your brain is best utilized in debating whether a particular style is gay or lesbian or you know....
Then comes your skills in debating whether Indians are whacko, which I should add, you make a fine specimen in support of your argument.

No need to thank me, just make sure the enlightenment reaches the inner parts of your cobweb filled head

Well said.

 

[PredictablyMalicious]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

@Singh : Not going to get into an argument. Don't care. Don't get what's so great about punjabis/sikhs. They're just like other north indians except hairier and louder. If they were so superior, punjab would be as devloped as Japan. There is nothing great about you lot, no matter how much you wish there was.

 

[Singh]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

@Singh : Not going to get into an argument. Don't care. Don't get what's so great about punjabis/sikhs. They're just like other north indians except hairier and louder. If they were so superior, punjab would be as devloped as Japan. There is nothing great about you lot, no matter how much you wish there was.

 

[Ray]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

@Singh, first of all I am not really that ancient as you have portrayed me.

My point in asking for clarification from @Ray sir on the Lajpat Nagar Punjabis was because in all my years I have never heard of this term. I was only aware that Lajpat Nagar was one of the many resettlement colonies for people fleeing the partition. Model Town is another such colony, which is quite posh.

As per my Grandparents there was no question of being called a refugee because

1. They were shifting from one part of their own country to another.

2. Calling themselves refugee meant a defeatist mindset. That generation had a single point agenda to get back on their feet rather than exist on Government Dole.

In this thread I see lot of generalisation with the terms Punjabis/Sikhs. Those who have seen the history unfold in Punjab would know otherwise.

further about Punjabis/Sikhs being brave or coward I do not know, even after 6 decades of creation of Pakistan my family still has the Zamindari in Pakistan and are doing well for themselves. The lands are still more or less intact-- and all this by still remaining hindus.

The people who are evicted from the homes and land and take refuge in safer haven are called 'refugees'.

When these people moved out of their ancestral land the country was either India or Pakistan.

If they did not recognise the new country (part) as their own (no one stopped them for staying on), but identified with the other part, then they are taking refuge.

ref·u·gee
/ˌrefyo͝oˈjē/
Noun
A person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.

 

[Singh]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

The people who are evicted from the homes and land and take refuge in safer haven are called 'refugees'.

When these people moved out of their ancestral land the country was either India or Pakistan.

If they did not recognise the new country (part) as their own (no one stopped them for staying on), but identified with the other part, then they are taking refuge.

ref·u·gee
/ˌrefyo͝oˈjē/
Noun
A person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.

They are by definition Refugee, but I am not aware of them calling themselves or being referred to as Refugees (or Lajpat Nagar Punjabis) , whether in parlance or derision. When the refugees outnumber the locals, then refugees stop being refugees.

Delhi Punjabis are no Muhajirs of Karachi.

 

[Simple_Guy]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

@Singh : Not going to get into an argument. Don't care. Don't get what's so great about punjabis/sikhs. They're just like other north indians except hairier and louder. If they were so superior, punjab would be as devloped as Japan. There is nothing great about you lot, no matter how much you wish there was.

You should not confuse between Indian Sikhs and Khalistani types living outside India. Most of the anti-Dogra, anti-Hindu bakwaas on the Internet has been cooked up by the Khalistani traitors, not Indian Sikhs. And none of that junk can be verified on Google Books.

 

[Ray]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

They are by definition Refugee, but I am not aware of them calling themselves or being referred to as Refugees (or Lajpat Nagar Punjabis) , whether in parlance or derision. When the refugees outnumber the locals, then refugees stop being refugees.

Delhi Punjabis are no Muhajirs of Karachi.

I have heard the crass noveau riche behaviour in Delhi labelled as 'the Lajpat Nagar mentality'.

Initially, I did not understand and so I asked.

I gave you what I heard when I was in Delhi.

Obviously, no one would like the label refugee once they have made good in life!

Here is a link;

http://timesofindia.hotklix.com/link/Bizarre/Here-s-what-makes-you-a-true-Punjabi

It is generalisation I will say and not universal.

But it is the image that one draws from a sojourn in Delhi.

It is not so in the Punjab rural area, which is the heartland of the real Punjab.

They are equally well to do, but it is different ethos wherein their wealth can be noticed, but they don't flaunt it as if it to generate competition of exhibiting wealth.

In fact, they prove to be real good friends.

 

[Ray]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

Sir,

I am not able to understand this point. I believe even @sob sir, asked for some clarification on this.

Frankly, I have only seen you use the term Lajpat Nagar and Punjabis, I guess it could be a generational thing, and I am certain that folks of @sob sir's generation nor mine are unaware of this.

Could be.

===

JJ and Kapoor are definitely individuals and their actions shouldn't be reflected on Punjabis/Sikhs in the forces, particularly when you have someone like Lt Gen Panag, a Sikh, at the other end of the spectrum.

I had written - JJ and Kapoor are but children of this culture though they have given a new 'high' to the rot!

And the culture was, which I mentioned in the same post - egalitarianism, espoused by Nehru and made into a fine art by Krishna Menon, and the slow politicisation of the Army through promoting the interests of favourites like Kaul etc, did these people realise that aligning to politicians was looking at gift horse in the teeth.

If you observe these two statements, you will see there is no mention of any community or class, excepting politicians and military lackeys who align themselves to this culture of employing politics for personal gains..

 

[Singh]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

I have heard the crass noveau riche behaviour in Delhi labelled as 'the Lajpat Nagar mentality'.

Initially, I did not understand and so I asked.

I gave you what I heard when I was in Delhi.

Obviously, no one would like the label refugee once they have made good in life!

I don't know whom you heard it from, or in which decade you heard it, but assuredly it is not a popular view. Must give credit, that it is certainly a unique and original view.

Here is a link;

Heres what makes you a true Punjabi! | timesofindia

It is generalisation I will say and not universal.

But it is the image that one draws from a sojourn in Delhi.

It is not so in the Punjab rural area, which is the heartland of the real Punjab.

Can be easily applied to Ludhiana, Chandigarh, Amritsar etc.

I can easily spot a Pendu Punjabi. Ludhianvis and Chandigarhites are much more "yuppies" then Delhites, atleast that's my opinion.

Maybe @Tronic or @hit&run can chime in.

 

[hit&run]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

I think there is problem with InA officers who are finding it difficult to digest and adjust themselves with new generation of 'Jawans' who are quite switched on, informed, daring and from well to do back ground.

It is high time they should understand modern work culture values and stop expecting juniors to be sycophants. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[hit&run]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

One of the thread on DFI has clearly brought out that punjabis never fought a war in their history. they always surrendered to the invaders meekly. The first round of battle used to be on Khyber and next Panipat. Nothing in Punjab. The short period of dominance of Punjabis in mid 18th century was due to the third battle of panipat which resulted in complete destruction of Afgan forces even after winning the battle, to such an extent that they never recovered from it. And pls have a look at the roll of dishonour of IA+IAF+IN, Punjabis have defeated evryone in that. Only place where they have been victorious.
two Punjabi Generals, JJ & Kapoor together have done more damage to IA than anyone else in the history of IA. They have tried to make IA same as PA, punjabian dee baap kee jaagir.

I have never heard a single Punjabi claiming that IA is Punjabion ke baap ke jagir. BTW I will read all your 'Punjabi' word as Sikh in all your next posts I will try to quote.

 

[Decklander]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

The culture of corruption was alien to Non-Punjabis and Punjabis brought it to India. Next you will say Brahmins are the best things to have ever happened to India ?
==


What if he was a Brahmin, what would he have done ?

Being a Brahmin, I hold Brahmins solely responsible for the rot of Hindu society. They being the learned, fooled people, distorted the Vedas, forced people to accept practices which were against the very basics of Vedas to strengthen their hold over the uneducated classes. They changed Karma based system of society to varna based system and also made it subject to birth of a child.
if Brahmins are just 6% of indian society today inspite of being protected thru the ages by kings, it for their own fault. I will never defend Brahmins for their acts which has left Hindu society divided forever and no solution to the caste system which they created in place of Karma system. Brahmins have done more damage to India than any muslim invader till date. Muslims cud get in only bcoz of the caste system. Imagine nearly 50% of the population not even allowed to defend their own country or religion.
by Brahmin, I mean the priest class of brahmins and not the warrior class of Brahmins.
I spare none, not even myself.

 

[Decklander]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

I have never heard a single Punjabi claiming that IA is Punjabion ke baap ke jagir. BTW I will read all your 'Punjabi' word as Sikh in all your next posts I will try to quote.

Pls read my post properly, even I have not called IA, Punjabian dee baap dee Jaagir. I have used that in relation to PA.

 

[Ray]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

I don't know whom you heard it from, or in which decade you heard it, but assuredly it is not a popular view. Must give credit, that it is certainly a unique and original view.



Can be easily applied to Ludhiana, Chandigarh, Amritsar etc.

I can easily spot a Pendu Punjabi. Ludhianvis and Chandigarhites are much more "yuppies" then Delhites, atleast that's my opinion.

Maybe @Tronic or @hit&run can chime in.

As a Delhiwallas you are just jealous of the Pendu Punjabis (as you so quaintly call them), Ludhianvis and Chandigarhites who are giving a run for your money and about to surpass you in all departments!

 

[Ray]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

I have never heard a single Punjabi claiming that IA is Punjabion ke baap ke jagir. BTW I will read all your 'Punjabi' word as Sikh in all your next posts I will try to quote.

Actually Sikhs are not monolithic in its true sense.

There are differences and when are amongst themselves, they are quite vociferous in acclaiming their difference as the sole issue that makes them the greatest!

I could enumerate these difference, but it would be treading those areas where angels dread to tread!

 

[hit&run]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

Being a Brahmin, I hold Brahmins solely responsible for the rot of Hindu society. They being the learned, fooled people, distorted the Vedas, forced people to accept practices which were against the very basics of Vedas to strengthen their hold over the uneducated classes. They changed Karma based system of society to varna based system and also made it subject to birth of a child.
if Brahmins are just 6% of indian society today inspite of being protected thru the ages by kings, it for their own fault. I will never defend Brahmins for their acts which has left Hindu society divided forever and no solution to the caste system which they created in place of Karma system. Brahmins have done more damage to India than any muslim invader till date. Muslims cud get in only bcoz of the caste system. Imagine nearly 50% of the population not even allowed to defend their own country or religion.
by Brahmin, I mean the priest class of brahmins and not the warrior class of Brahmins.
I spare none, not even myself.

There is no such class in brahmins of one worrier and other priest. People react differently in different situation I see no scientific data for the brahmins you are referring (Mohyals) to suggest they were able to keep their faith during hard times of history of sub continent. A large chunk converted to Sikhism and a smaller to Islam. Same is the case with all other Hindus from different casts.

 

[hit&run]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

Actually Sikhs are not monolithic in its true sense.

There are differences and when are amongst themselves, they are quite vociferous in acclaiming their difference as the sole issue that makes them the greatest!

I could enumerate these difference, but it would be treading those areas where angels dread to tread!

Every religion offer their own dose of bigotry and has their own share of paradoxes, exceptions and hypocrisies; why single out Sikhs ?

 

[Decklander]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

There is no such class in brahmins of one worrier and other priest. People react differently in different situation I see no scientific data for the brahmins you are referring (Mohyals) to suggest they were able to keep their faith during hard times of history of sub continent. A large chunk converted to Sikhism and a smaller to Islam. Same is the case with all other Hindus from different casts.

You need to get yourself educated about brahmins. Who were Dron & krip? ever heard of Tyagis, Gaurs, Bhumihaars? Who are they and what do they do as brahmins? Who took a pledge from them to give up Dakshshina and to become professional warriors?

 

[Ray]

Re: 11/10/13: 10 Sikh Light Infantry officers and jawans clash, 3 inju

Every religion offer their own dose of bigotry and has their own share of paradoxes, exceptions and hypocrisies; why single out Sikhs ?

My comment was on this

I have never heard a single Punjabi claiming that IA is Punjabion ke baap ke jagir. BTW I will read all your 'Punjabi' word as Sikh in all your next posts I will try to quote.
hit&run ↑

It would not be a truism to club Punjabis and their sub divisions and the different categories of Sikhs as a monolithic whole.

They are diverse and each with its singular ethos and psyche ( call it bigotry if you wish as you call it), even if it appears as minor.