Russia Seeks to Reopen Military Bases in Vietnam and Cuba

AnantS

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The US MIC is very powerful and very influential. If Trump tries to rock the boat too much, a very unfortunate thing can happen (don't ask, won't speculate).
I did not realize that US MIC is that influential, that they can change govts. And with republicans in power, MIC driven fp will be very much there. So I do see 10x pressure on India to buy US defense trinkets.
 
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pmaitra

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pmaitra

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I did not realize that US MIC was that powerful.
A large portion of the Pentagon's budget is outside of Congressional audit.

The US spends a lot of money in waging wars based on false or fabricated intelligence.

It took the US intelligence 40 years to declassify the Gulf of Tonkin incident, the casus belli for the Vietnam War. Now we know it was fake.

With so much money spent on so many programmes, while piling up debt, one should use the concept of qui bono.
 

SANITY

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Russia Announces Intent to Establish Air Base in Tajikistan

Russia is seeking to expand its military presence in Tajikistan by renting the Ayni airbase, Moscow's ambassador to Dushanbe has said.

Tajikistan already hosts the 201st military base, Russia's largest base outside its borders, but the base "needs an air component," said Igor Lyakin-Frolov at a December 27 news conference in Dushanbe. Russia is currently in talks with Tajikistan about the base, which lies on the outskirts of Dushanbe, Lyakin-Frolov added.

Russian media reported in 2013 that Moscow had started negotiations with Dushanbe over the base. "Signing of an additional agreement on the Ayni air force base, which Moscow also intends to rent and to consider part of the 201st military base, is expected," Nezavisimaya Gazeta reported at the time, citing unnamed officials, though that apparently went nowhere. That Lyakin-Frolov said this on the record gives it a bit more credibility, but the recent history of Ayni has featured a lot of disappointed expectations.

In the 2000s India renovated the base at a cost of $70 million, obviously intending to use it themselves, but that never came to pass, as by 2010 Russia had apparently thwarted India's designs. The Indian press still consistently promotes Ayni as India's military foothold in Central Asia, though Delhi officially seems to have given up.

“As and when any such proposal comes to us for helping them out and making [Ayni] functional, we would be more than happy to do that, but I don’t think that we are going in the direction which you are suggesting,” Indian Ministry of External Affairs Joint Secretary (Eurasia) G Srinivas said in a newspaper interview on the occasion of Tajikistan President Emomali Rahmon's visit to India in December. "Our engagement with Tajikistan is more in terms of training, as I just pointed out to you, and of course not to also miss out on that whole creation of infrastructure, bringing back that airfield of Ayni to such a position that it is one of the best airfields now in the region, so that is the engagement with that country."

Russia's own intentions for Ayni have never quite been clear, to say nothing of Tajikistan's. (Dushanbe has yet to comment publicly on Lyakin-Frolov's comments.)

Russia has been using Ayni on an apparently ad hoc basis; they sent a unit of helicopters to the base in 2015, and Su-25 attack jets there in early December 2016.

If Russia is in fact making a serious play for the base, the big question is likely cost. "Knowing Tajiks, I expect them to demand money, and not a small sum," said Andrey Merzlikin, a former commander of Russian border guards in Tajikistan, in an interview with Gazeta.ru. "Whether this makes economic sense is difficult to say." The two countries extended their agreement over the 201st base in 2012 for an additional 30 years, and while the specific terms have not been made public, they reportedly include over a billion dollars in (unspecified) military aid.

It's perhaps worth noting that just a month ago Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu promised that Moscow would provide Tajikistan with "a large quantity" of military aircraft.
 

Alekssmol67

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I once served in Tajikistan on 201 military bases. Tajikistan, as well as all former Soviet Union is the Russian zone of interests. Others countries shouldn't climb there.
This base once was a support for actions of our troops in Afghanistan. Now it has other tasks. But it has to remain there, otherwise there will be that what happened after our Russian frontier guards ceased to stand on the Tajik-Afghan border - Tajikistan was overflowed by a wave of drugs which go to Russia now. If there our base disappears, Tajikistan will be overflowed by a wave of Islamic radicalism and terrorism. Our base is the only thing that holds a stable situation in the country. The Tajik armed forces it isn't serious, there is no real force and they solve nothing. Will escape at the first shots....
 

airtel

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Russia Announces Intent to Establish Air Base in Tajikistan

Russia is seeking to expand its military presence in Tajikistan by renting the Ayni airbase, Moscow's ambassador to Dushanbe has said.

Tajikistan already hosts the 201st military base, Russia's largest base outside its borders, but the base "needs an air component," said Igor Lyakin-Frolov at a December 27 news conference in Dushanbe. Russia is currently in talks with Tajikistan about the base, which lies on the outskirts of Dushanbe, Lyakin-Frolov added.

Russian media reported in 2013 that Moscow had started negotiations with Dushanbe over the base. "Signing of an additional agreement on the Ayni air force base, which Moscow also intends to rent and to consider part of the 201st military base, is expected," Nezavisimaya Gazeta reported at the time, citing unnamed officials, though that apparently went nowhere. That Lyakin-Frolov said this on the record gives it a bit more credibility, but the recent history of Ayni has featured a lot of disappointed expectations.

In the 2000s India renovated the base at a cost of $70 million, obviously intending to use it themselves, but that never came to pass, as by 2010 Russia had apparently thwarted India's designs. The Indian press still consistently promotes Ayni as India's military foothold in Central Asia, though Delhi officially seems to have given up.

“As and when any such proposal comes to us for helping them out and making [Ayni] functional, we would be more than happy to do that, but I don’t think that we are going in the direction which you are suggesting,” Indian Ministry of External Affairs Joint Secretary (Eurasia) G Srinivas said in a newspaper interview on the occasion of Tajikistan President Emomali Rahmon's visit to India in December. "Our engagement with Tajikistan is more in terms of training, as I just pointed out to you, and of course not to also miss out on that whole creation of infrastructure, bringing back that airfield of Ayni to such a position that it is one of the best airfields now in the region, so that is the engagement with that country."

Russia's own intentions for Ayni have never quite been clear, to say nothing of Tajikistan's. (Dushanbe has yet to comment publicly on Lyakin-Frolov's comments.)

Russia has been using Ayni on an apparently ad hoc basis; they sent a unit of helicopters to the base in 2015, and Su-25 attack jets there in early December 2016.

If Russia is in fact making a serious play for the base, the big question is likely cost. "Knowing Tajiks, I expect them to demand money, and not a small sum," said Andrey Merzlikin, a former commander of Russian border guards in Tajikistan, in an interview with Gazeta.ru. "Whether this makes economic sense is difficult to say." The two countries extended their agreement over the 201st base in 2012 for an additional 30 years, and while the specific terms have not been made public, they reportedly include over a billion dollars in (unspecified) military aid.

It's perhaps worth noting that just a month ago Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu promised that Moscow would provide Tajikistan with "a large quantity" of military aircraft.


I once served in Tajikistan on 201 military bases. Tajikistan, as well as all former Soviet Union is the Russian zone of interests. Others countries shouldn't climb there.
This base once was a support for actions of our troops in Afghanistan. Now it has other tasks. But it has to remain there, otherwise there will be that what happened after our Russian frontier guards ceased to stand on the Tajik-Afghan border - Tajikistan was overflowed by a wave of drugs which go to Russia now. If there our base disappears, Tajikistan will be overflowed by a wave of Islamic radicalism and terrorism. Our base is the only thing that holds a stable situation in the country. The Tajik armed forces it isn't serious, there is no real force and they solve nothing. Will escape at the first shots....


it seems (russia , china , iran , pakistan , turkey ) & USA want to fight their proxy wars in Afghanistan & central Asia .


 

I am otm shank

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USSR has supplied weapons to both India and China.

Had the US and USSR not come together to force a ceasefire in 1965 war, we would have won decisively and taken control over strategically important areas.

After the Indian victory in 1971 it was the USSR which put pressure on India alongside the US to release those war prisoners, hence despite the fact that we spilled our blood and won a war we could not make any territorial gains or punish the war criminals.

You can see a pattern here, both US and USSR wanted the disputes to linger.

After the fall of the USSR, India-Russian relation has generally been friendly but if Russians expecting us to shower him/her with praises and gratitude, then that is never going to happen at least from my end. USSR did all that because USSR required a strong ally in the IOR. All those loans and grants had a purpose, this was not charity.

Those Praises and Gratitude must be reserved for our own Heroes.

Back on topic, I don't see any reason for a stable country offering military base to a foreign power when such move can potentially destabilize the region.

Vietnam gains nothing, Russia is already on China's side.
Cuba gains nothing from unnecessarily poking the US in it's eye.
India trained LTTE while being a partner of the Lankans. .what's your point? If world diplomacy is too much for indian society we should just remain an isolated and irrelevant country..what has India done for Russians to make Russia forsake all other avenues of diplomacy and income with China or anyone else?

Jawans spilled their bloods for our community but political and social incompetence and cowardice made our jawans sacrifice for nothing. Russia gave India everything to win the war and you blame them because our society are scared to be assertive? Dont blame other people for our people's lack of decisiveness or we will never be able to make the next sacrifices mean something.

It was Russian nuke subs and indira's backbone that kept India from cowarding down from nuclear blackmail from the west in form of task force 74 and a British carrier naval group. Russia gave indos time to decisively win the war but because we couldn't take advantage of that gain as a nation and people it's another nation's fault?

If Russia USA and UK didn't exist we would still have a civilizationial conflict with muslims/middle east so don't try to pass off blame on others. we had this conflict far before any of these countries had influence in bharat. Blaming the country that actually helped save India from being overrun again by salafis is plain stupid.

of course you don't have gratitude or compliments for friends. everything that you've posted shows you are very self centered and selfish. if you wanted Russians to win the peace for us after they supplied bharat to win the war then India should have joined the USSR and put Russians in charge of their country.

It's just sad and pathetic you blame others for (world renowned) indian indecisiveness and timidity.
 
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I am otm shank

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksei_A._Rodionov

"in 1971 when the Soviet Union directed a secret message to PresidentYahya Khan to come up with a peaceful political settlement for the East Pakistan to avoid going through the conflict with India.The now-declassified Rodionov message ultimately warned Pakistan that "it will embarking a suicidal coarse if it escalates tensions in the subcontinent."



..

.


It has been documented that President Nixon requested Iran and Jordan to send their F-86, F-104 and F-5 fighter jets in aid of Pakistan.[146]

When Pakistan's defeat in the eastern sector seemed certain, Nixon deployed Task Force 74 led by the aircraft carrier USS Enterpriseinto the Bay of Bengal. Enterprise and its escort ships arrived on station on 11 December 1971.:xxxx[147] According to a Russian documentary, the United Kingdom deployed a carrier battle group led by the aircraft carrier HMS Eagle to the Bay

..

On 6 and 13 December, the Soviet Navydispatched two groups of cruisers and destroyers and a submarine armed with nuclear missiles from Vladivostok;[137] they trailed US Task Force 74 into the Indian Ocean from 18 December 1971 until 7 January 1972. The Soviets also had a nuclear submarine to help ward off the threat posed by the USS Enterprise task force in the Indian Ocean.
 

pmaitra

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@I am otm shank, thank you for your post. I agree with what you said, but I'll try to explain to @DingDong without being harsh, so that we can get along.

There are two types of Bangladeshis:
Type 1: Those that are thankful to India for whatever India did in 1971/72.
Type 2: Those that act uppity and pretend as if they owe no gratitude to India.

So, @DingDong, I trust you are better than Type 2. Just like we would be offended by Type 2, I think Alexei has good reason to be offended here. We should never forget those that have helped us when we were in need. I hope you will understand.
 

DingDong

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@I am otm shank, thank you for your post. I agree with what you said, but I'll try to explain to @DingDong without being harsh, so that we can get along.

There are two types of Bangladeshis:
Type 1: Those that are thankful to India for whatever India did in 1971/72.
Type 2: Those that act uppity and pretend as if they owe no gratitude to India.

So, @DingDong, I trust you are better than Type 2. Just like we would be offended by Type 2, I think Alexei has good reason to be offended here. We should never forget those that have helped us when we were in need. I hope you will understand.
This is like Congress (I) asking us to worship it's leadership and never talk ill about it just because it gave us "Freedom".

Comparing Russia in context of India with India in context of Bangladesh?
We gave our blood for Bangladesh's freedom, we fought a war and won it. We made sacrifices.

We can brag about our victories, but not in a manner which demeans or trivializes the contribution of the Bangladeshis in their war. I can completely see the reason behind a Bangladeshi getting offended by statements like "We gave you your freedom".

Only person who deserves to be offended here is an Indian who doesn't wants to hear why a "3rd world good-for nothing population" must be eternally grateful to the great USSR (Russia) for being so kind and charitable and how India would have been nothing without USSR.

Whatever USSR did in 1971 wasn't selfless service, just like whatever the US did for Pakistan wasn't selfless service.
 
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pmaitra

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This is like Congress (I) asking us to worship it's leadership and never talk ill about it just because it gave us "Freedom".

Comparing Russia in context of India with India in context of Bangladesh?
We gave our blood for Bangladesh's freedom, we fought a war and won it. We made sacrifices.

We can brag about our victories, but not in a manner which demeans or trivializes the contribution of the Bangladeshis in their war.

Only person who deserves to be offended here is an Indian who doesn't wants to hear why a "3rd world good-for nothing population" must be eternally grateful to the great USSR (Russia) for being so kind and charitable and how India would have been nothing without USSR.
  • Nobody is trivializing the contribution of Bangladeshis.
  • Nobody is trivializing the contribution of Indians.
  • Nobody is denying that Indians gave blood. Indians would have given more blood and probably lost territory to the PLA and Pak Army, and got fried by Uncle Sam, had it not been for the USSR.
  • And that 3rd world good for nothing population comment came after a series of escalating back and forth that started from the posts below:
I think that Putin mixed horse piss in your Vodka. :pound:
Are all Russians/boderline-Ukrainians mentally unstable or only 99% of them?
Honestly, I don't know what Putin puts in vodka. But if you say horse piss, then I'm not going to argue with an expert horse piss like you. You know better, perhaps you have long been accustomed
I think I have done my best to de-escalate. I am near the end of my patience. I want both of you to stop responding to each other. Do not even attempt indirect or snide comments.
 

India22

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Both DingDong and Otm Shank are right. In 1965 it was Russia which pressurized India to stop war. But it cant be avoided Indian self-assertion's lack, was main reason for these. Iran despite being cornered during Iraq-Iran war fought alone for 8 years. Indian planning of 1971 war was faulty. Russia cant be blamed for this.
 

DingDong

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  • Nobody is trivializing the contribution of Bangladeshis.
  • Nobody is trivializing the contribution of Indians.
  • Nobody is denying that Indians gave blood. Indians would have given more blood and probably lost territory to the PLA and Pak Army, and got fried by Uncle Sam, had it not been for the USSR.
  • And that 3rd world good for nothing population comment came after a series of escalating back and forth that started from the posts below:


I think I have done my best to de-escalate. I am near the end of my patience.
I wrote that post on the introductory thread after I saw this guy edited an innocent post before quoting it (I think that was @Razor 's post).

You want to see the trail of escalation on this thread? See following posts:

15 -> 16-> 17-> 20-> 27

For example:
#17: "The world is divided into 2 half - those who for America and those who for Russia."
I say, Indians are for India.

How the tone changes from the central topic to: We are the Superpowaah, you are with us or against us.

India has come a long way since 1947, we no longer strive to join one club or another. We are going to become a Global Power on our own.
 

pmaitra

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I wrote that post on the introductory thread after I saw this guy edited an innocent post before quoting it (I think that was @Razor 's post).
Tell me something I don't know or about something I have not taken action on.

upload_2017-1-4_2-1-8.png
 
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Project Dharma

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And in Russia, a weak Indian organisms will not survive and they will become extinct.
In my city there are medical Academy where he studied a lot of Indians. In the winter it was pathetic - small, frozen, twisted...
Let's see how you do in the summer heat in India, Comrade. Give me warm clothes and a bottle of vodka and I too can be a Russian. You however will get sunburned after spending 30 minutes in the Indian sun if your lungs don't collapse because of the pollution first that is :laugh:
 

India22

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Let's see how you do in the summer heat in India, Comrade. Give me warm clothes and a bottle of vodka and I too can be a Russian. You however will get sunburned after spending 30 minutes in the Indian sun if your lungs don't collapse because of the pollution first that is :laugh:
Eating a meat based diet, drinking and wearing a lot of cloths can easily capable you of tolerating cold.

I have not however understood how Russia refused to hand over Smerch TOT when they hand over S 300 and other military machines to China although they know China will copy them.
 

I am otm shank

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@I am otm shank, thank you for your post. I agree with what you said, but I'll try to

I apologize to DingDong and to other forum members for getting upset and posting a thread while angered.

My gripes with Dingdong's perspective is that it disenpowers Indians from taking responsibility for our civilization destiny by Blaming others the outcomes of political decisions we've made.

The same thing that has destroyed many Indigenous indian adminstration of our lands in the last 500 years

Second it's just plan wrong to blame your friends and allies for your own failures..it's foolish like gora children in the west Blaming their parents and families when they aren't what they expect to be despite their own personal bad decisions
 

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