Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russian

Discussion in 'Military Aviation' started by sesha_maruthi27, Oct 18, 2014.

  1. sesha_maruthi27

    sesha_maruthi27 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russian Envoy

    NEW DELHI: The French Rafale Fighter aircraft that India is planning to buy, in what is being billed as the largest defence purchase by the country - "will be swatted like mosquitos in an August night," says Russian Ambassador to India Alexander Kadakin.

    Mr Kadadin also claimed that Sukhoi-27 - aircraft manufactured in Russia that are supplied to China's People's Liberation Army (Air Force )- are far more capable and advanced than the Rafale fighters.

    Incidentally, Russian-made MiG- 35, as well as US-made F-16s & F- 18, Swedish-made SAAB Gripin and French-made Rafale were the key competitors for the defence contract. After a long and detailed evaluation, the IAF had selected the French-made Rafale Fighter jets to replace its ageing and depleting fleet. The deal is likely to cost India a whopping $23 billion.

    Going on to question India's strategic forays with the Unites States and the erstwhile 'Western Bloc', the Russian Ambassador said the US has "transferred zero technology to India".

    He cited the BrahMos Missile, a supersonic cruise missile jointly developed and produced by India and Russia, the Sukhoi-30MKi that is now being licensed and produced in India, and the Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant as examples of critical technology transferred by Russia to India.

    Russia, historically, has been a key strategic partner of India and the main supplier of weapon systems. But, in the last decade, India has increasingly looked towards Israel and US to meet its defence requirements. The shift, no doubt, has peeved Russia.

    These issues are likely to dominate the summit-level talks between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Prime Minister Narendra Modi. President Putin is scheduled to visit India on December 11.

    Russia is expected to push India to source conventional submarines from them. Submarines are key to the strategy of "Sea Denial" - preventing warships of adversaries from accessing specific areas in the sea. India has only eight functional conventional submarines.

    Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russian Envoy
     
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  3. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    Nuclear power plant tech is practically the only tech Russians are competitive Globally. Glad to see India trust western tech in key defence sourcing. Finland also shifted to western tech after collapse of SU and have not looked back since.

    Why not get the subs from Germany?
     
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  4. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    German submarines aren't necessarily the best, and they were also accused of bribery. If they can cut down on their level of corruption, German submarines might be considered.

    Germans may find it hard to sell their subs - The Hindu
     
  5. Dhairya Yadav

    Dhairya Yadav Regular Member

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    Ohkay, so if not Rafale, is MiG35 capable to match Chinese? :rofl:
    They are just grumpy because we didnt choose the MiG... :rolleyes:
     
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  6. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    So you are saying that Chinese new military will have the upper hand over the neighbours in the future?
     
  7. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    Germans are good: The famous grey wolves of the second world war were actually developed in Finland.

    Avalanche Press

    http://worldatwar.eu/index.php?esid...tegoryid=&articleid=617&diaryid=0&boardpage=2
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2014
  8. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    Rafale was chosen partially due to its performance in the invasion of Libya. Russia can simply invade a country to "spread democracy" and hopefully we will be impressed with their MiG-35.

    Jokes apart, the Rafale is tried and tested. The MiG-35 quite isn't, and neither was the eclectic Typhoon. That one would have been a big political headache with too many people trying to have a say on whether we should use them or put them in a museum for show.
     
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  9. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    German engineering is generally good, but they do make shoddy products from time to time.

    There is a joke in the US - "A VolksWagen spends more time in the repair-shop than it spends on the road."

    Not true always, but this joke exists for a reason.
     
  10. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    Too bad Mr. ambassdor, you lost the context for Indian MMRCA contract.

    I hope you were joking about observation that Chinese SU-27 can squash Rafale like summer night Mosquitos.

    Opinions like yours have also been expressed by Pakistani and Chinese members. Some believe falsely that the Pakistani JF-17 can make a minced meat of Rafale. Others believe that Chinese copy of SU- 27 can out perform Rafale anyday.

    That exuberance is self defeating. The JF-17 does not stand a chance while facing LCA-1. The Chinese SU-27 copy will fall an easy prey to SU-30MK1 any day.
     
  11. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    Russian radar is one generation behind the west all sukhois need an upgrade of zhuk radar suppose. To be done by 2018. Elta radar in lca by Israel is reported to perform better?
     
  12. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    Mr. Ambassador was comparing the Rafale and the Sukhoi-27, and I think he is correct in his claims that the latter is far more capable. Moreover, I wouldn't underestimate Chinese engineering.

    There is an ancient Indian philosophy, respect the enemy if he is worthy of respect.
     
  13. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    Not arguing with "pmaitra" at all.

    If he is right then there is a huge waste of money about to occur with the purchase of Rafale.

    I can understand why Russian ambassdor is sore about Rafale purchase. But not cannot understand pmaitra's argument that Su-27 is far more capable and can front and win in the air against Rafale.

    I have no confidence in stolen and copied technology. That is what Chinese are doing. A danger in copied and stolen technology is that expertise, metallurgy, manufacturing does not come with it. That is a crucial disadvantage.

    I believe more experts are needed to throw in their opinions.
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    German subs are good, but not great.

    India bought the HDWs, but the Kokums of Sweden was better.

    The Russian Ambassador is saying what any Russian would say.

    The grapes are sour!
     
  15. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    Sir,

    I think you should do a little bit more research about PRC, and its technological prowess, instead of relying on Sino-phobic rants, which is not very uncommon.

    PRC has the world largest High Speed railway (by distance) in service. The total in-operation length is 14,424 km. The next spot goes to Spain, at 3,100 km.

    PRC has put a man in space, and is already assembling a space station.

    Yes, please tell me more about expertise, metallurgy, manufacturing, etc..

    Now, coming to the Russian Ambassador's comments, he was not talking about Chinese copies, but about Sukhoi-27 manufactured in Russia and supplied to PRC.
     
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  16. anupamsurey

    anupamsurey Regular Member

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    no we should buy russian jets and see them go kaboom in air.
     
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  17. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    Because your western masters produce systems that are grossly expensive and complicated for Indian unforgiving environment. Moreover these idiots are unreliable defence suppliers, Germany has no qualms supplying Pakistan arms, but when it comes to India they act like sissies.

    How old are you really?

    When you drive a car there is a probability that you can get an accident, do you blame Nissan or Toyota for that?
     
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  18. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    You better hope that Chinese don't start to train their pilots in Finland. FiAF has the reputation of dominating the skies with even fewer and older planes than the advisory.
     
  19. SajeevJino

    SajeevJino Long walk Elite Member

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    :facepalm:

    Do you Think Finland is the One the Best Air Firce Pilots in the world
     
  20. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    It is not the pilots only, it is the complete package. In joint exercises with NATO countries our Hornets dropped 100 NATO planes and lost only six.
     
  21. SajeevJino

    SajeevJino Long walk Elite Member

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    Re: Rafale Fighters India is Buying Can't Match Chinese Fighters: Russ

    Exercises won't make your pilots and Fighters Best in the world . NATO Exercises happens somewhere in repeated intervals They are all not available for Public

    Your 100 Scores won't help you in real Battle field
     

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