OBOR News & Developments

[amoy]

@amoy How many projects under the BRI initiative have been completed or about to be, outside of Pakistan or POK?

Oh my friend the initiative is just x years old, so hardly any "completed" projects. Somehow I've got to be bored of the big brush "OBOR" or "BRI". Nowadays China seems to lump-sum every overseas venture under BRI umbrella.

Here's one I posted - China -Laos-Thailand Railway , of which China-Laos sections are due to finish in 2020. By then the land-locked Laos would be further integrated economically, needless to mention its geopolitical implications - Laos as a member of ASEAN, and overland extention to Thailand and beyond. Basically they'd be as dependent on China, as Bhutan / Nepal on India.

And Malaysia's East Coast Rail Line touted as a game changer

 

[amoy]

the simple reason OBOR won't be successful..... the great relations between India and Afghans. in fact, i would dare say Afghans are India's all-weather ally in the current geopolitical climate. the bonhomie between RAW-NDS makes for the undoing of OBOR if it ever were to cross through the Durand Line.

Oh my friend... u (like many others) forget geography. India even doesn't border Afghanistan.

So all-weather, or bon homie... or other goodies, hinge on a port entry & rail link through Iran. It's really really unreliable and costly - just a click of sanction button by Trump or NATO, or toppling of the incumbent Ayotollah, phewww, would make it inaccessible.

 

[IndiaRising]

Oh my friend... u (like many others) forget geography. India even doesn't border Afghanistan.

So all-weather, or bon homie... or other goodies, hinge on a port entry & rail link through Iran. It's really really unreliable and costly - just a click of sanction button by Trump or NATO, or toppling of the incumbent Ayotollah, phewww, would make it inaccessible.

lol we dont share border with afghans still your pet slaves feel the heat in FATA and Baluchistan everyday. the link between india and afghanistan is centuries old, but i dont expect chinese to understand. you are better off bullying your own people in Hong Kong

 

[Flame Thrower]

Yes, you can. But you can't list the projects that are finished and are making profits. Chinese investment in OBOR is massive, we don't expect all of the investment to be fruitful, but let us say even 60% of them are, it's worthy.

List them out for me..................................

 

[jat]

Yes, you can. But you can't list the projects that are finished and are making profits. Chinese investment in OBOR is massive, we don't expect all of the investment to be fruitful, but let us say even 60% of them are, it's worthy.

Thats whats called a bad investment. I suspect, the level of investment is not as big as it is or as large. Its probably a man made figure of long term expected costs. I don't think it would make a large dent, but many small ones. With out India's cooperation, the effect will remain minimal. Maritime trade is always the largest. But express shipping costs would be reduced, allowing smaller trades where there were none.

 

[sthf]

Oh my friend the initiative is just x years old, so hardly any "completed" projects. Somehow I've got to be bored of the big brush "OBOR" or "BRI". Nowadays China seems to lump-sum every overseas venture under BRI umbrella.

Here's one I posted - China -Laos-Thailand Railway , of which China-Laos sections are due to finish in 2020. By then the land-locked Laos would be further integrated economically, needless to mention its geopolitical implications - Laos as a member of ASEAN, and overland extention to Thailand and beyond. Basically they'd be as dependent on China, as Bhutan / Nepal on India.

And Malaysia's East Coast Rail Line touted as a game changer

So the answer to my question is none.

Weren't these two projects initiated before BRI was officially declared on May 2017?

Chinese are also vying to invest in Indian railways and highways. If that happens it doesn't mean that India has suddenly become a part of BRI.

 

[amoy]

So the answer to my question is none.

Weren't these two projects initiated before BRI was officially declared on May 2017?

Chinese are also vying to invest in Indian railways and highways. If that happens it doesn't mean that India has suddenly become a part of BRI.

AFAIK the BRI was first proposed in 2013. By your May 2017, it's not even 1-yr old.

If we leave those dazzling jargons - OBOR or BRI aside, there've been numerous infra projects fitting into the Silk Road Belt coverage.

Some (completed) projects of STRATEGIC significance are elaborated in threads:
China-Myanmar oil pipeline bypasses Malacca trap
COSCO Shipping's investment in Piraeus port multi-win for China, Greece, Europe

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet

As for Indian railways, Chinese don't always win in every highly competitive bid.

 

[Butter Chicken]

Heavy security and a ‘climate of fear’ surround China’s flagship port in Pakistan

For the thousands of attendees it was meant to be a conference to showcase China’s flagship Belt and Road project in Pakistan – the port in southwestern Gwadar that gives Beijing access to the Arabian Sea.

In the evenings the almost 8,000 delegates were wowed with cultural shows and a firework display at the newly opened five-storey Gwadar Exhibition Centre which was host to about 100 companies last month.

Yet what really caught the attention of some investors were the hundreds of Pakistani troops patrolling the roads and guarding high-end hotel lobbies.

“Nobody will come and invest in this climate of fear,” said Muhammad Zafar Paracha, director at the Pakistani partner of MoneyGram International Inc.

With national elections due in July, Pakistan’s government is keen to trumpet the commercial viability of the deep seaport in the once sleepy sea town of about 200,000 people in a province long racked by separatist insurgency. To secure Beijing’s funding of more than US$50 billion in infrastructure projects, Pakistan has raised a special 15,000 strong security force.

The port is scheduled to start transshipment on March 7. Yet for all the fanfare, some question Gwadar’s prospects amid heavy security. Balochistan is mostly off limits to outsiders and there’s no visible foreign presence beyond the Chinese. Journalists and visitors are closely monitored by Pakistan’s intelligence agencies.

“It doesn’t feel like a normal investment location or an enabling business environment if that level of protection needs to be provided,” said Andrew Small, who has written a book on Pakistan-China relations and is one of a handful of westerns to have travelled to Gwadar.

Beijing has become increasingly vocal over the risks in Pakistan. In December, its embassy in Islamabad warned of imminent terror attacks on Chinese targets. This month a Chinese manager at Cosco Shipping Lines Co, was gunned down in an upmarket area of Karachi. Following the murder, China called on Islamabad to take more measures to ensure security.

 

[Guest]

Yes, you can. But you can't list the projects that are finished and are making profits. Chinese investment in OBOR is massive, we don't expect all of the investment to be fruitful, but let us say even 60% of them are, it's worthy.

60% is highly ambitious, going by current record, I doubt even 5% of the investments is giving returns, be It Gwadar line, or Hambantota port.

the simple reason OBOR won't be successful..... the great relations between India and Afghans. in fact, i would dare say Afghans are India's all-weather ally in the current geopolitical climate. the bonhomie between RAW-NDS makes for the undoing of OBOR if it ever were to cross through the Durand Line.

Chinese have been wooing Afghans for a long time, 1st they tried by Talking with Taliban but Pakis, spoiled everything.

IMO Pakistan is very important piece in this endeavor, their insecurity and panicky behavior will remain a big nuisance for all parties, due to Paki behavior Chinese lost the Indian market and Afghan support which is important in both Afghanistan and Pakistan for OBOR to become an economically feasible endeavor.

And in all this I see USA playing the part of the monkey between Cats, using right pressure, covert and overt to make sure Pakis keep panicking and become a bigger nuisance and ultimately reach the size where Chinese have to come in and bring in order, hence fall in the trap ultimately. This situation can be good or bad for India depending on how we handle It.

 

[ezsasa]

the simple reason OBOR won't be successful..... the great relations between India and Afghans. in fact, i would dare say Afghans are India's all-weather ally in the current geopolitical climate. the bonhomie between RAW-NDS makes for the undoing of OBOR if it ever were to cross through the Durand Line.

This assumption that afghans would ignore China for the sake of India may not the right.

It’s more to do with America than China. As long as Americans have boots on ground in Afghanistan, China would be discouraged.

As and when Americans leave, China is in play.

In another 2-3 years we will start hearing about China being the biggest net importer of food and agriculture products, if it hasn’t happened already. Every country will want to sell Agri products to china.

We have to remember that China’s middle class is larger that population of America. China cannot possible feed the increasing demands of middle class, from its existing farm lands and live stock.

 

[SanjeevM]

CPEC was a plot of China to show rosy dreams to Pakistan to sell themselves to China. Now Pakistan is debted to the core to China. Pakistan wasted their valuable foreign exchange on CPEC projects and also got heavy debt from China. Pakistan in its Ego broke relationship with U.S. (that was giving military aid and arms for free) and also made Indians their enemies. China made sure the situation at LOC is heated by instigating Pakistan. Once Pakistan stopped getting military aid from US, and there is a fear of attackfrom India, now China can easily sell their junk arms to Pakistan for a price higher than they could get by selling the materials to junkyard.

China knows India is not their enemy as both civilizations have survived and lived as neighbors for thousands of years. Their real enemy is radical Islam of which Pakistan is the epicenter. If we look at the recent Chinese friendships, they are with Muslim world. On one hand China is banging Muslims in own country and on other hand, having friends in Muslimworld. It's a big game plan of China to weaken the Muslim world by increasing trade and controlling resources and infrastructure assets in Muslim countries and slowly bringing them in debt trap.

India should have a serious discussion with China. In case my assumptions are correct, we can partner with China andhave hands in gloveswhile China enslaveMuslim countries.

 

[Mikesingh]

Heavy security and a ‘climate of fear’ surround China’s flagship port in Pakistan

“Nobody will come and invest in this climate of fear,” said Muhammad Zafar Paracha, director at the Pakistani partner of MoneyGram International Inc.

“It doesn’t feel like a normal investment location or an enabling business environment if that level of protection needs to be provided,” said Andrew Small, who has written a book on Pakistan-China relations and is one of a handful of westerns to have travelled to Gwadar.

It's not only security. Gwadar is as dry as a bone. With little or no water, how will industries come up?

If you guys have the time, do read my answer in Quora relating to the CPEC in Balochistan and the problems in Gwadar which I wrote a couple of hours ago.....

https://www.quora.com/Do-Pakistan-c...om-the-CPEC-project/answer/Mahendra-Singh-111

 

[indus]

A view on how Chabahar makes life for cpec difficult.

 

[Butter Chicken]

CPEC’s transparency: NHA admits irregularities in award of $2.9b contract to Chinese firm

ISLAMABAD: The National Highway Authority (NHA) chairman confessed on Tuesday that there were irregularities in the award of a $2.9-billion contract to a Chinese firm for construction of a motorway under the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC).

The admission raises transparency concerns in the multi-billion dollar deals.

NHA Chairman Jawwad Rafique Malik admitted that concessions worth roughly $200 million given to the China State Construction Engineering Company (CSCEC) were not part of the original bidding documents Pakistan had floated for the construction of the 392-kilometre long Multan-Sukkur section.

 

[sthf]

AFAIK the BRI was first proposed in 2013. By your May 2017, it's not even 1-yr old.

rose by any other name would smell as sweet

I am sure some kind of tangible results would have been there for all of us to see.

Afterall, BRI was launched with much pomp and flair. A "game changer" for the world.

I am also not sure about the "strategic" label for pipeline. Pipelines are the best way to transfer fuel across great distances but are also the most vulnerable. If anyone is making things difficult for China in Malacca, a pipeline terminal in Myanmar will be targeted first. Its not like Myanmar can use it's non-existent stealth bombers to retaliate. But it is a good investment for China.

 

[Butter Chicken]

Chinese Prisoners Are Working on CPEC Projects, Says Pakistan Parliamentarian

New Delhi: A senior leader of Pakistan’s primary opposition – the PPP – has alleged that Chinese prisoners are being used in the construction work of the China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC).

Nawab Mohammad Yousuf Talpur, a senior leader of Pakistan People’s Party, said this in the lower house, or National Assembly, of Pakistan’s Parliament on Monday. He alleged that a large number of Chinese prisoners were working on development projects of the China Pakistan Economic Corridor.

"I have learnt that prisoners have been brought from Chinese jails and they are constructing roads. They can be involved in crimes so there should be proper security arrangements," Talpur said. He raised the question citing security concerns for Pakistan.

"I assume that a secret or unannounced agreement has been made between the two countries because prisoners cannot be sent from one country to another without taking the host nation into confidence. Chinese construction companies are using prisoners as labourers," he added.

The leader said that a number of Chinese nationals had been arrested in ATM fraud cases, especially in Karachi. "Pakistanis are not capable of carrying out such crimes. I assume that Chinese prisoners are involved in ATM thefts and other computer crimes such as breaking into computers or computer networks," he said.

 

[Mikesingh]

Chinese prisoners working on CPEC in Pakistan

A Pakistani parliamentarian has revealed that Chinese prisoners are working on development projects of the over USD 60 billion China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) in the country.

Member of the National Assembly Nawab Mohammad Yousuf Talpur of the Pakistan Peoples' Party (PPP) raised security concerns on this issue, and demanded better security arrangements.

"I have learnt that prisoners have been brought from Chinese jails and they are constructing roads. They can be involved in crimes, so, there should be proper security arrangements," the Dawn quoted Yousuf, as saying.

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-chinese-prisoners-working-on-cpec-in-pakistan-2589801

Wow! Reminds me of what the Germans did during the great wars - employing prisoners for vast construction activities (and later executing some of them). They are paid a tuppence in exchange for their freedom. Recently, several Chinese nationals have been arrested for their involvement in the ATM skimming and other frauds and murders in Pakistan. Chinese hard core prisoners are roaming the streets of Pak committing crimes. But they are iron brothers of the Pakis and so no action can dare be taken against them for fear of a backlash by the Chinese govt.

Pak society is heading for the boondocks. Mandarin has now been made compulsory in schools and businesses, the Chinese have literally taken over the Pak stock exchange, airports, roads, railways, sea ports etc have been leased out to the Chinese, including sanitation of cities, Sino-Pak marriages are on the rise and so on!

The Land of the Pure has become a joke! If anyone wants to know the meaning of a failed state, check out Pak - a classic example - which is heading towards becoming the 6th Autonomous Region of China.

 

[HeinzGud]

Chinese prisoners working on CPEC in Pakistan

A Pakistani parliamentarian has revealed that Chinese prisoners are working on development projects of the over USD 60 billion China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) in the country.

Member of the National Assembly Nawab Mohammad Yousuf Talpur of the Pakistan Peoples' Party (PPP) raised security concerns on this issue, and demanded better security arrangements.

"I have learnt that prisoners have been brought from Chinese jails and they are constructing roads. They can be involved in crimes, so, there should be proper security arrangements," the Dawn quoted Yousuf, as saying.

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-chinese-prisoners-working-on-cpec-in-pakistan-2589801

Wow! Reminds me of what the Germans did during the great wars - employing prisoners for vast construction activities (and later executing some of them). They are paid a tuppence in exchange for their freedom. Recently, several Chinese nationals have been arrested for their involvement in the ATM skimming and other frauds and murders in Pakistan. Chinese hard core prisoners are roaming the streets of Pak committing crimes. But they are iron brothers of the Pakis and so no action can dare be taken against them for fear of a backlash by the Chinese govt.

Pak society is heading for the boondocks. Mandarin has now been made compulsory in schools and businesses, the Chinese have literally taken over the Pak stock exchange, airports, roads, railways, sea ports etc have been leased out to the Chinese, including sanitation of cities, Sino-Pak marriages are on the rise and so on!

The Land of the Pure has become a joke! If anyone wants to know the meaning of a failed state, check out Pak - a classic example - which is heading towards becoming the 6th Autonomous Region of China.

Chinese are using Prisoners in Sri Lanka also in their own construction works specially under state engineering firms.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

This assumption that afghans would ignore China for the sake of India may not the right.

It’s more to do with America than China. As long as Americans have boots on ground in Afghanistan, China would be discouraged.

As and when Americans leave, China is in play.

In another 2-3 years we will start hearing about China being the biggest net importer of food and agriculture products, if it hasn’t happened already. Every country will want to sell Agri products to china.

We have to remember that China’s middle class is larger that population of America. China cannot possible feed the increasing demands of middle class, from its existing farm lands and live stock.

Why would Americans leave??? Afghanistan is a perfect staging area for USA against Russia and PRC. It also provides them with real-life controlled test ground for their weapons.
USA will relace human strength with drones but will never withdraw from Afghanistan.

 

[Butter Chicken]

Chi-Pak affecting sensitive glaciers of China sponsored,Pakistan occupied Gilgit-Baltistan