MMRCA and the Chinese Threat

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by Mariner HK, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    Should india choose Rafale which has greater A2G (or) Eurofighter Typhoon which is by far best A2A .When China want to buy SU 35 which is far more superior than Rafale .Then whats the point of buying rafale ? Please shed some light on it.
     
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  3. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    Sure A2G can be carried out by su 30 mki , jaguar ,Tejas and missiles too... Is some thing fishy about selection of Rafale over ef ? As we all know tat ef was the first preference by IAF... Rafale re-entry ll be questionable ... Given the current scams exposee
     
  4. Sam2012

    Sam2012 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Rafale is true multirole fighter good in both A2A & A2G , agreed not somewhat inferior to Su-35 in A2A scenario . But not the lame duck it has advanced avionics , Subsystem & Radar ( AESA). End of the day Pilot wins the combat more than the fighter does

    But IAF has Air dominance fighter Su-30MKI & MiG-29SMT currently which can counter chinese threat for now , Super-30MKI will be at par or even better than Su-35, for which we have signed contract for 42 nos which might be increased if required

    IAF is lacking on multirole prospective , they have to bank on 50odd Mirage-2000 for that role . Mig-27 & Jaguar are not reliable in all terrain we saw that in Kargil , Hence Rafale really fits the bill in this sutuation

    Mig-21 is prime interceptor & point defence fighter with secondary ground attack capability which will be replaced by LCA Mk1 & LCA Mk2 in future


    J-20 Induction will take time may be 6-7 years if things go fine or even more , by that time hope we will have FGFA

    Indian Air Force - YouTube
     
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  5. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    but Euro fighter s defo bigger threat for both rafale and sukoi in A2A battle... As far as su35 is concerned chinese will mass produce its copy cat verson.Su 35 is superior to su 30 mki and even Super sukoi... With new radar and powerfull engine than previous version..
     
  6. Sam2012

    Sam2012 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Its like this our future war will be fought on High altitude similar to Kargil , over there A2G becomes prime job than A2A

    You are right Su-35 is superior to Su-30MKi & Rafale , i doubt Super-30MKi Apart from the engine . But trust me Su-30MKI & Rafale can hold their ground against 26 odd Su-35. Chinese buying Su-35 is to counter F-15 of Japan & USA in pacific , India ins secondary for them

    Eurofighter is good Air superiority fighter which has done well in Red flag against even Mighty F-22 , but it has two disadvantage

    1. It is build by European Consortium if even one country slaps sanction fearing India developing Agni Missile with 10,000+ KM range imagine what will happen to the fleet , the whole after sales service will come to halt then result in grounding of fleet even the existing fleet of Eurofighter are not getting spares properly Eurofighter Typhoon: It's EVEN WORSE than we thought [printer-friendly] • The Register

    2. Eurofighter is a Air dominance fighter than the multirole , we have Su-30MKI & Mig-29SMT for that role IAF does not require one more or else we will compromize on ground attack which army is very critical on IAF:thumb:

    Saudi Arabia has F-15 & Eurofighter in their fleet , based on my knowledge F-15 is best battle proven Air superiority fighter with 100+ kill and 0 loss in A2A , Eurofighter is the best in the business next only to F-22 on par with Su-35 . Then Saudi should have ruled Middle east and Asia why they are not able to tame ISREAL ? so its the pilot who wins the combat :rolleyes:

    The whole MMRCA deal is under dark tunnel now , not sure that will be signed or not after choppergate we have think about that not Su-35 of China:thumb:
     
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  7. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    If EFT was so much better than Rafale, it wouldn't have gotten its ass handed to it by Rafale in DACTS exercise. The only advantage is EFTs bigger radar, but that is a moot point with RBE2 AESA which is far superior. Rafale didn't have any problem with MKI at Garuda IV, so what does Su-35 bring to the table? A bigger PESA radar to give away its position... perfect for a Meteor kill.
     
  8. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    Stealth su 30 mki can out match rafale in a2a combat
     
  9. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    we need to be fair when u campare su 30 with rafale... Su 35 vs rafale its diffrent ball game...

    some comparison Rafale vs Su 30 mki
    Power plant 2 x 75 kN – 17k lbf 2 x 122 kN – 27k lbf
    Service Ceiling :17 km – 55k ft vs 17 km – 56k ft
    BVR AAM missile MBDA Meteor 100 km vs Vympel R-77M 160 not to mention Bramos 250+ km
    Speed (mph) 2640 vs 2970

    Sukhoi SU-30MKI is cheaper.
    Sukhoi SU-30MKI is more economical.
    Dassault Rafale is faster.
    Sukhoi SU-30MKI is better armed.
    Dassault Rafale is better dogfighter.

    Sukoi 30 mki with improved airframe ,stealth features, AESA radar (super sukoi can give hell lots of hard times for rafale..for sure
     
  10. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    +The new SUPER 30 MKIs will cost close to $100 mill/ac will have higher thrust engines with 3D TVC (Something Rafale doesn't have) ability to fire Bhramos, AESA and a lower RCS. Either way the IAF will be operating both these beasts in significant numbers and wil DOMINATE the region.
     
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  11. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    Sure we will fight another kargil...but dont u think we got a huge threat via tibet and even in our eastern front china may need long range attack fighters surely Su 35 will full fill tis gab... And correct me if am wrong u fairly accepted that ef is better than rafale in A2A but as far as i know ef is planing for A2G abilities by 2014 too...If EF can have good A2G it may be a bettr choice...with great radar and powerfull engine...EYou are right Su-35 is superior to Su-30MKi & Rafale , i doubt Super-30MKi Apart from the engine . But trust me Su-30MKI & Rafale can hold their ground against 26 odd Su-35. Chinese buying Su-35 is to counter F-15 of Japan & USA in pacific , India ins secondary for them [/QUOTE]

    The Su-35 is definitely better than the Su-30MKI. The Su-35 has better airframe, better engines, better FCS and carries more fuel. The Su-35 can be equipped with the latest Zhuk radar and new Russian avionics.

    The Su-30MKI is a nice upgrade of the Su-27UB trainer. But the Su-30MKI is an older, less advanced design. Older airframe, weaker engines, older FCS. The Su-30MKI Bars radar is bulky and heavy and has poor field of scan.

    An upgraded Su-30MKK will be closer to the Su-35.Su 35 is far better than Rafale as well ..Why we should choose rafale instead of su 35 ...?Even with unit cost Unit cost US$45 million[4] to $65 million (estimated) cheeper than rafale or EF nearly 100 mil a peice.. ?
     
  12. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    Yes u r right.Su 30 mki and mig 29 are good for air fighting role but these are old fighters with old frames and higher rcs wont stand a chance in front of chinese j20 or su 35... We might think it will take another 8 years of chinese to induct j20 or other 5th gen fighter...but comon chinese can pull out a surpris like test flight of j20 and other secret projects aswel...What really concern me is road map for our fighters.Future indian aircrafts are mainly based on A2G ... example Tejas mk1 and mk2 N-Tejas Amca ll be multirole ,AURA is a UCAV for bombing so can u explain why we need Another A2G fighter when Jaguar and mirage 2000 are upgraded as well.? Where is Airsuperiority fighters? Pakfa but not untill 2024.Given reputation of our HAL in the past and procurment system

    F-15 is 100% a great fighter ofcourse but u should also take a note that USA never been to war with Country with decent Armed forces.. as far as i know .I dont think F 15 E will stand a 100% supiriority over other great nations... After all no fighters will be invisible including 5 gn jets..So i dont agree with this.
     
  13. mikhail

    mikhail Senior Member Senior Member

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    yeah i also have the same question here.when we all know that the Su-35BM is somewhat superior to the present Su-30MKI then why didn't our IAF choose them over the Su-30MKI in the latest deal to acquire 42 Super Su-30MKI!i mean both these aircrafts have a lot of similarities so the reason that a completely different platform means new infrastructure is somewhat lame in this scenario.so we could have easily opted for the Su-35BM instead of the Super Su-30MKIs.can anybody shed some light in this matter please.:confused:
     
  14. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    lol exactly...i too dont get it too.. Now we need rafale.. when china buys su 35 like some 40 of them..but chinese will place follow on order for 150 more like they did with su 27s... Just imagine 200 russian su 35 plus few 100s chinese copy cat version of su 35s...with j11 junks and 5th gen fighter ? Wat are we planing for ....RAFALE ? to match 400 su 35 fleet ?
     
  15. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    we are known for our poor planing for defence procurments with lots of corruption and delay
     
  16. Mariner HK

    Mariner HK Tihar Jail Banned

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    i think we are upgrading our current 230 sukoi fleet which is a good think ...if its better than su 30 mki... and we ll get knowledge on stealth and few 5th gen features too...We may use it for our AMCA aswell as Ucav...ADA mentioned about stealth tejas too few months ago... wat ever Finger crossed
     
  17. Agnostic_Indian

    Agnostic_Indian Regular Member

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    we can't match China on each and everything what we can do is maintain minimum credible deterrence..
    China is not likely to buy su35 on large numbers, what they are interested is in the radar and engine.

    as of now mki can handle them, in one more year we will sign deals to upgrade mki.
    mig 29 is being upgraded.
    rafale is multi role and that includes air superiority role as well, and it will be equal to mki in that role if not better.
    and don't forget lca also.
     
  18. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    There is no such thing as stealth MKI. Its RCS is 20m^2. Even if you cut that down to 5m^2 its radar still gives it away. Rafale with an a2a loadout is 1/40th of that. With AESA and Meteor any Super Flanker doesn't have a chance. It will be dead before it even picks it up on radar.
     
  19. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    cant we go for 20-30 su35 to fill the gap and counter china..
     
  20. Sunder singh

    Sunder singh Regular Member

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    Dear SU30MKI are different to Rafales, we are purchasing around 300 SU30MKI so have diverse or twin engine fighter jet, we cannot depend fully on Russia so we have to get other options also.
    Moreover SU30MKI is air superiority jets but Rafales omni role jets
     
  21. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    but brother our su30 will not stand against su35. They also have su30 .

    Well don't need to depend on one nation but we need option to counter them.
     

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