Japan's deputy PM apologizes for praising Nazi tactics

s002wjh

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China is one of the world's fastest-growing economies, but Tibet remains one of its poorest spots. Beijing pumps billions of dollars into Tibet each year, an infusion that's partly intended to stabilize the Himalayan region.
Tibetans and ethnic majority Han Chinese are constructing a dam on the Lhasa River, which has nurtured Tibetan civilization for centuries.
Once its turbines start spinning later this year, the dam will provide electricity to much of central Tibet, including the capital Lhasa. It's part of the roughly $2.5 billion that Beijing pumps into Tibet each year, mostly in the form of infrastructure projects.
The dam is supposed to benefit residents downstream, including 60-year-old farmer Gesang Quzhen.
"When I have some time to myself," she says, "I often reflect on how life has changed. In the past, we worked for others without pay. Now we farm our own land and we pay no taxes on our shop. As a young girl. I could see how hard my parents worked."
Quzhen was still young when the Chinese government took control of Tibet in 1951 and ended its feudal system. Quzhen's parents were "chabas," landless serfs who worked on a feudal lord's manor.
Today, Quzhen makes $2,500 a year from her roadside shop, and another $350 from her one-acre plot of barley and potatoes.
She says despite all the government construction over the past decades, most of what she's achieved in life has been by her own hand.
"The government has helped us build houses, and we can seek them out if we need assistance," Quzhen says. "But as for us, we've worked very hard, so we haven't needed much help from the government."
Tibet as a whole is not so self-sufficient. Herdsmen and farmers like Quzhen account for 80 percent of Tibet's 2.7 million inhabitants. Yet they produce less than 20 percent of the region's economic output. Tibet has the lowest economic output of any region in China. And a million residents in Tibet are still below the poverty line of $150 in annual income.
China's critics and Tibetan exiles blame Tibet's poverty on Beijing for stripping Tibet of its resources and neglecting its people's welfare.
Zhang Younian, the deputy director of Tibet's main economic planning agency, rejects such accusations.
He says Beijing exempts Tibet from all taxation and provides 90 percent of Tibet's government expenditures. "So there's no question of Beijing money out of Tibet," Zhang says. "Given our current economic circumstances, there's not much money to take out."
Zhang adds that China strictly controls the extraction of Tibet's rich mineral resources.
It's no secret that Beijing's spending in Tibet is partly intended to stabilize its border regions. Lhasa-based economist Wang Taifu points out that it's been this way for centuries, and remains the case today.
"If the central government did not make huge investments in its border regions, the income gap between these regions and the coastal areas would become too big, and Beijing would have no way to ensure peace and stability," Wang says.

Tibet's Economy Depends on Beijing : NPR


most tibet are farmer/monks etc most don't know how to write chinese/most don't have education pass middle school. yet they complain those high skill high pay jobs taken by chinese.
 

t_co

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@s002wjh

Agree with you wholeheartedly, but no need to argue with the DFIers about Tibet here - keep the focus on Japan.
 
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Ray

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@s002wjh

Agree with you wholeheartedly, but no need to argue with the DFIers about Tibet here - keep the focus on Japan.
Why?

Too embarrassing since you have nothing to refute with.

And have more than one children is some hell of a concession?
 
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t_co

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Why?

Too embarrassing since you have nothing to refute with.

And have more than one children is some hell of a concession?
Because the topic is talking about Japan and Nazis, and DFI rules state that we should keep things on-topic? You're a moderator here, you should know that better than most. If you want to argue China is pursuing Nazi-levels of genocide against the Tibetan and Uighur citizens of China, make a separate thread for it and we can go have unsere kleinen Pissenkrieg over there.

On topic: In the wake of these recent comments, public opinion in South Korea is now more pro-China than pro-Japan. Most notably, South Korean public opinion is arguing that South Korea should use the 2014 renegotiations of the US-Korea defense treaty to exclude Japan from any US-Korea mutual defense pact - even as it relates to passive military infrastructure, like radar networks. Past 2014, there is a very real chance that China will only have to deal with Japan and the US PACOM, and any threat from South Korean territory would be minimal.

Nice job breaking it Taro Asshole. Maybe the Chinese foreign ministry can pay for his future speeches by the word :lol:
 

cw2005

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Ray, I came here to read the discussion on Japan's turning right, not the Chinese crashing minorities. One might open a new thread for that, but please keep the forum in good shape.
Why?

Too embarrassing since you have nothing to refute with.

And have more than one children is some hell of a concession?
 

Ray

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Because the topic is talking about Japan and Nazis, and DFI rules state that we should keep things on-topic? You're a moderator here, you should know that better than most. If you want to argue China is pursuing Nazi-levels of genocide against the Tibetan and Uighur citizens of China, make a separate thread for it and we can go have unsere kleinen Pissenkrieg over there.

On topic: In the wake of these recent comments, public opinion in South Korea is now more pro-China than pro-Japan. Most notably, South Korean public opinion is arguing that South Korea should use the 2014 renegotiations of the US-Korea defense treaty to exclude Japan from any US-Korea mutual defense pact - even as it relates to passive military infrastructure, like radar networks. Past 2014, there is a very real chance that China will only have to deal with Japan and the US PACOM, and any threat from South Korean territory would be minimal.

Nice job breaking it Taro Asshole. Maybe the Chinese foreign ministry can pay for his future speeches by the word :lol:
Yes, it should not be off topic.

Interconnected issues do crop up during discussions and so sometimes the main subjects get its edges airbrushed.

If the currency swap with China is an indicator of South Korea moving closer to China, then that is it!
 

Ray

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Ray, I came here to read the discussion on Japan's turning right, not the Chinese crashing minorities. One might open a new thread for that, but please keep the forum in good shape.
We have to cater to all whole lot of people with a variety of viewpoints.

I am sure we all want an on topic discussion, but then it always veers tangentially and the Chinese are no St Peter in this matter.

We always try to keep thing on it keel though it does list at times.

We also try to avoid keelhauling as far as possible!
 

roma

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Ray, I came here to read the discussion on Japan's turning right, not the Chinese crashing minorities. One might open a new thread for that, but please keep the forum in good shape.
not sure how you read english ( the language of this forum ) ?

the title of this thread reads:- Japan's deputy PM apologizes for praising Nazi tactics

So, the discussion of Nazi tactics (( including their inhumane treatment of their minorities , not just jews but also other "non-aryans" eg gypsies, hungarians and others ) is obviously very relevant .

now in doing so, one cant have a good discussion ( discussing is something you may easily allow in your prc-china ) without taking a good look at reference points - indeed to look at reference points is a completely normal practice ..

..and that is how prc-china legitimately comes into the picture - a reference point , looking at how prc-china treats its minorities and how similar the two situations are ....and so we point to the parallels that exist in the two situations

it's rather a piity that you seem to mind - and your attempt to invoke some kind of breaking of rules and asking for intervention, well, ah , puhlease ! :rolleyes: ( rolleyes "smiley" didnt appear )

but at the end of the day, im confident the majority by far of the forum members will join me in saying that we intend to have a thorough discussion,

one that leaves no stone unturned,

- and we will not be coerced into giving up the right to a good discussion ! :thumb: ( thumb smiley didnt appear )
 
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t_co

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Yes, it should not be off topic.

Interconnected issues do crop up during discussions and so sometimes the main subjects get its edges airbrushed.

If the currency swap with China is an indicator of South Korea moving closer to China, then that is it!
1) What South Korean currency swap are you referring to?

2) Unfortunately, the edges here have not been airbrushed to the extent that you can start comparing Chinese policies towards Chinese citizens of Uighur or Tibetan descent to the Nazi final solution 'tactic' towards Jews, because the two are not at the same scale at all.

If you disagree with 2 and want to make it official DFI policy, I am going to bring up NaMo's inept handling of the 2002 Gujarat riots and Hindutva ideology whenever anyone talks about Muslims on DFI because it will be less of a rhetorical stretch than what you and @roma are doing here. Your move Ray - I have the rhetorical high ground, and unless you abuse your mod powers you cannot move me off it. :lol:
@cinoti @no smoking @s002wjh @Known_Unknown @Yusuf @pmaitra
 
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pmaitra

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@t_co, I am not sure why you referenced me. I doubt whether you will be able to extricate a response from me in this regard because I go by the epithet, "All is fair, in love and war."
 
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Known_Unknown

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@t_co I'm not a mod and I don't have any powers :) but my personal view is that it will be nice for once to not have every thread degenerate into a flame war of Indians blaming Chinese and vice versa. I am interested in learning more about the politics of East Asia, and I think for most of us here, that remains an unknown, unfamiliar (and perhaps, uninteresting) topic hence with nothing to contribute to the subject at hand (myself included), some members tend to make comparisons with what they do know about East Asia, i.e China & Tibetans etc.

From what little I know of Japan, just like post-war Germany, they were abjectly forced to"unbelieve" everything that they believed in by the Allies. Since there is a post-war narrative placing all the blame for the Holocaust on the Nazis (even though Allied governments were complicit by refusing to accept Jewish immigrants from Germany), anything that "rocks the boat" is considered to be bad, hence all the vitriol against the deputy PM.

His intent behind the statement though, is praiseworthy. Japan is a proud nation, and a strong, non-pacifist Japan is necessary to check the growing aggression of China.
 
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CCTV

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@t_co I'm not a mod and I don't have any powers :) but my personal view is that it will be nice for once to not have every thread degenerate into a flame war of Indians blaming Chinese and vice versa. I am interested in learning more about the politics of East Asia, and I think for most of us here, that remains an unknown, unfamiliar (and perhaps, uninteresting) topic hence with nothing to contribute to the subject at hand (myself included), some members tend to make comparisons with what they do know about East Asia, i.e China & Tibetans etc.

From what little I know of Japan, just like post-war Germany, they were abjectly forced to"unbelieve" everything that they believed in by the Allies. Since there is a post-war narrative placing all the blame for the Holocaust on the Nazis (even though Allied governments were complicit by refusing to accept Jewish immigrants from Germany), anything that "rocks the boat" is considered to be bad, hence all the vitriol against the deputy PM.

His intent behind the statement though, is praiseworthy. Japan is a proud nation, and a strong, non-pacifist Japan is necessary to check the growing aggression of China.
Well, we are testing how "strong" Japan is right now.
 
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Ray

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1) What South Korean currency swap are you referring to?

2) Unfortunately, the edges here have not been airbrushed to the extent that you can start comparing Chinese policies towards Chinese citizens of Uighur or Tibetan descent to the Nazi final solution 'tactic' towards Jews, because the two are not at the same scale at all.

If you disagree with 2 and want to make it official DFI policy, I am going to bring up NaMo's inept handling of the 2002 Gujarat riots and Hindutva ideology whenever anyone talks about Muslims on DFI because it will be less of a rhetorical stretch than what you and @roma are doing here. Your move Ray - I have the rhetorical high ground, and unless you abuse your mod powers you cannot move me off it. :lol:
@cinoti @no smoking @s002wjh @Known_Unknown @Yusuf @pmaitra
No big deal.

I am not Hinduvta man or a Modi fan.

I am for real secularism and not political opportunism or one not to recognise propaganda, sponsored or otherwise, that most of you indulge in!

Please understand, even though China is a 'secretive world', it is not that we are totally unaware of what's up in China and its double faced deceit!

As a Mod, I rarely move anyone!

Thank Indian democracy and the freedom the Indians and Indians have to air all types of view unlike China, which is sealed envelope marked 'Secret', wherein you know what is happening in India and the various sides people are taking.

Though I will concede it is a very juvenile rant that you have indulged in.

Your frustration does show indeed!

So, go ahead and enjoy yourself!
 
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no smoking

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@t_co From what little I know of Japan, just like post-war Germany, they were abjectly forced to"unbelieve" everything that they believed in by the Allies. Since there is a post-war narrative placing all the blame for the Holocaust on the Nazis (even though Allied governments were complicit by refusing to accept Jewish immigrants from Germany), anything that "rocks the boat" is considered to be bad, hence all the vitriol against the deputy PM.
Japan received far lighter punishment in the post-war era: only few war criminals were sentenced to death or long time prison. Some of the war criminals even got senior positions in the post-war government due to the USA's need in cold war. One example is 731, all of its members got free after they give their "scentific archievement" to americans.

His intent behind the statement though, is praiseworthy. Japan is a proud nation, and a strong, non-pacifist Japan is necessary to check the growing aggression of China.
Yes, his intent is praseworthy to his voters who would reward him in next election, but not sure for his country.
Japan is in an awkard position today, it needs the help from its neighbour economically and politically. It would need even more help from its neighbours on the confrontation with China. Thanks to these stupid speech from its senior poiliticians, it is isolating itself and push some potential friends like south korea into Chinese circle.
 
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s002wjh

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so you mean when Tibetans grew from 2.5 to 6 hans grew from 0 to 8-15 million
yeah why not its their territory. same with israel or europe immigration in 16-19th century toward S.&N. america
 

no smoking

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so you mean when Tibetans grew from 2.5 to 6 hans grew from 0 to 8-15 million
Well, you are accusing that Chinese has been eliminating Tibetans, then you better explain why Tibetans growing faster than any time in its history.
 

drkrn

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Well, you are accusing that Chinese has been eliminating Tibetans, then you better explain why Tibetans growing faster than any time in its history.
i never used the term "elimination",i say population growth in Tibet is due to immigration from china.well increased life span of individuals can be attributed to their faster annual net growth rater
 

t_co

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i never used the term "elimination",i say population growth in Tibet is due to immigration from china.well increased life span of individuals can be attributed to their faster annual net growth rater
And I'm assuming all those extra years of life can be purely attributed prayers, sheepherding, and silent yearning for an exiled God-King?
 

no smoking

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it's ineresting that both yourself and your coleage from prc avoid talking about uyghur situation

this can go on an on - so i'll end with this:-

the evidence is overwhelming

only those supporting the prc will look the other way
Where is your evidence.
The reason I didn't raise Uyghur situation because I didn't find datas. Unlike you, my friend, I would like to argue something with hard evidence instead of empty words.

Now, here is the evidence of Chinese elimination of Uyghurs:

In 1949, Uyghurs--3291000
In 2000, Uyghurs--8523000

The Uyghurs in Xinjiang – The Malaise Grows

Again, how did Yughurs archive such a popluation growth under Chinese elimination?
 

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