Issues with WS-10A engine mean China can't power J-15, J-16

Discussion in 'China' started by bennedose, Sep 9, 2014.

  1. bennedose

    bennedose Senior Member Senior Member

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    Issues with WS-10A engine mean China can’t power J-15, J-16 | idrw.org
     
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  3. t_co

    t_co Senior Member Senior Member

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    Could you post the Kanwa article IDRW cited?
     
  4. CCP

    CCP Senior Member Senior Member

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  5. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

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    China has already strated mass production of WS-10.
    PAF will soon equip this engine in its growing fleet of JF-17 to and drop RD-93.
     
  6. kseeker

    kseeker Retired

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    What are the differences between WS-10 and RD-93?
     
  7. t_co

    t_co Senior Member Senior Member

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    The WS-10 is comparable to the AL-31F, which is a different Russian engine than the RD-93. The AL-31F was designed for Flankers and equivalent heavy fighters; the RD-93 is for lighter aircraft like the Mig-29. The Chinese project in the RD-93 class is the WS-13, which is slated for deployment in 2015.

    Defense Updates: Recognize AL-31F and WS-10A engine differences in comparison

    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/military-multimedia/6697-ws10-al31-side-side.html#post89445
     
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  8. t_co

    t_co Senior Member Senior Member

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    To take advantage of France's cancellation of the Mistral delivery, China is offering Russia access to her shipyards to build additional large surface combatants, since China now has more expertise than Russia in building ships. In return, China would like NPO Saturn to jointly develop their 155kn jet engine with Shenyang Liming.
     
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  9. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    The Indian and Western media are at least 5 years behind in news related material when it comes to China.
     
  10. bennedose

    bennedose Senior Member Senior Member

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    What on earth for? Did one engine fail and the plane nearly spiral out of control? :shocked:
     
  11. bennedose

    bennedose Senior Member Senior Member

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    Maybe they are using cheap China make clocks?
     
  12. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    Copied and stolen technologies do not produce a high performing engine.
     
  13. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    Cheap talks dont even make an engine.

    Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2
     
  14. Punya Pratap

    Punya Pratap Regular Member

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    China’s call for arms | Russia Beyond The Headlines ASIA


    China’s call for arms
    The Su-35 fighter may significantly boost China’s ability to react to conflicts. Press Photo
    Warming ties between Russia and China are reviving the arms trade between the two countries.
    One theory doing the rounds in the 2000s was that Russian-Chinese military-technical co-operation was going downhill and would inevitably cease altogether. Now, however, it is obvious that the situation has improved, with Russian military exports to China picking up again. The volume of exports has already reached the level of the 1990s and the early 2000s, and may yet beat that record.
    However, one difference is how insignificant the arms trade is in the overall structure of co-operation between the two countries. In the 1990s, military-technical co-operation was one of the pillars of mutual trade, and served as the basis for their bilateral partnership.
    After Russian arms exporters had broken into new markets in the 2000s, China’s share in the total volume of exported Russian military equipment decreased noticeably. According to published data, Russian arms exports to China peaked during the early years of the last decade.
    Engine exports for China’s warplanes remained at a relatively significant level throughout the past decade. China is expected to continue buying powerplants from Russia
    China is still a major buyer of Russian weapons, second only to India. However, China is no longer crucial to the survival of the Russian defence industry. According to a 2012 statement by Russian deputy prime minister Dmitry Rogozin, exports accounted for only 22 per cent of the national defence industry’s total revenues, while 45 per cent came from sales to the national armed forces.
    This growing domestic demand, and new export markets, and diversification into civilian markets, has lessened arms manufacturers’ dependence on Chinese contracts, while providing Moscow with a significant degree of freedom in negotiating future contracts with Beijing.
    The data available indicates that Russian military exports to China exceeded US$1.9 billion in 2011, and expanded last year. As for the newly signed contracts, Russia’s state arms exporter Rosoboronexport reports that China accounts for 12 per cent of the overall US$17.6 billion in new arms sales; this puts the total contracts signed with China at more than US$2.1 billion.
    Of this figure, US$1.3 billion worth of contracts have been accounted for. These include a US$600 million deal to deliver 52 Mil Mi-171E helicopters, and a US$700 million order for 140 Saturn AL-31F engines.
    These powerplants are intended for the Sukhoi Su-27 and Su-30 fighters previously sold to China, and for indigenous Shenyang J-11B/BS, J-15 and J-16 warplanes.
    No one really knows the nature of the contracts for the remaining US$800 million, but may assume that these represent a number of relatively minor orders.
    Aero engine exports to China stayed at a relatively significant level throughout the past decade. Sources in the Chinese aerospace industry say the country will continue to buy powerplants from Russia at the same rate in the years to come.
    In fact, the number of newly ordered engines may even grow. While Chinese air-framers have achieved impressive results, the country’s military warplane engine technology remains at a relatively low level of development. All the three indigenous fourth-generation fighter designs are powered by Russian engines: the AL-31F for the J-11B, the Saturn AL-31FN for the Chengdu J-10, and the Klimov RD-93 for the CAC FC-1.
    China’s newest Xian H-6K long-range bomber is also fitted with Russian engines of the Soloviev D-30KP2 design. The country’s two fifth-generation fighter programmes, the Chengdu J-20 and the Shenyang J-31, are in the flight-testing phase, and China is apparently interested in fitting them with Russian next-generation engines, including the Saturn 117S, which powers the Sukhoi Su-35. In addition, virtually all Chinese-built military and civilian aircraft designs are equipped with imported powerplants.

    In terms of helicopter exports to Beijing, apart from contracts for transport helicopters, it is expected that China will continue limited procurement of Kamov’s special-mission aircraft, which are either impossible or unfeasible to clone locally in the foreseeable future.
    One traditional aspect of bilateral arms trade is represented by joint research and development efforts, or by research and development programmes run by Russia in China’s interests.
    These include some key Chinese weapons systems, such as the PL-12 air-to-air missile, the HQ-16 SAM system, the Hongdu L-15 combat trainer, the CAIC WZ-10 combat helicopter, the FC-1 tactical fighter, the Project 054À frigate.
     
  15. Punya Pratap

    Punya Pratap Regular Member

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    The above news and link are from Russia who ought to know the real scenario regarding Taihang !
     
  16. CCP

    CCP Senior Member Senior Member

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    If it is true,then the J-11 pic took by P-10 must be fake.
     
  17. bennedose

    bennedose Senior Member Senior Member

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    Are you able to recognize the China make engine in the photo? That must be fake too then.
     
  18. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Good move by PRC.

    On the other hand, we are trying to buy ships from South Korea.

    I fail to understand why India's isn't offering to sell helicopter carriers to Russia, considering India has fairly good expertise in this field, and in return, get Kuznetsov to set up a turbine facility in India.

    I wonder whether PRC now will have to use imported engines like India is doing with the GE F-414. At least, PRC is trying to pay back in kind, unlike India, which is paying cash.
     
  19. t_co

    t_co Senior Member Senior Member

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    India doesn't have enough shipyard capacity to do that. Even if India did, India lacks expertise with large hull construction - that expertise can be acquired building things like dry bulk carriers, oil and gas tankers, and container ships - and the supply chain and human capital to support large shipyards (the foundries, marine metallurgy research institutes, marine engineers, world-class welders/riveters/machine operators).

    The PRC has always preferred paying back in kind with Russia, since strengthening certain parts of Russia's military (esp. the Navy) increases the PRC's overall security. Every modern warship or submarine that Russia gets in Europe is another less American ship or sub to worry about in Asia.
     
  20. Punya Pratap

    Punya Pratap Regular Member

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    CCP please provide links (creditable) for WS 10 development and its current status

    The J 11 serial no 24 that did a barrel roll is one of the earlier models that were powered by Al 31! If I m wrong please ellaborate with data to back your claim

    Since we know the J-11 was started in 1995 as a Chinese version of the Soviet-designed Sukhoi Su-27SK air superiority fighter after China secured a $2.5 billion production agreement which licensed China to build 200 Su-27SK aircraft using Russian-supplied kits. Under the terms of the agreement, these aircraft would be outfitted with Russian avionics, radars and engines. However, in 2004, Russian media reported that Shenyang co-production of the basic J-11 was halted after around 100 examples were built and this serial no 24 J 11 is from the 100 built with Russian Supplied kits including engine.

    If I m wrong than I will be more than willing to change my opinion about this J 11 BH which was fitted with two PL-8 short range air to air missiles and two PL-12 medium range air to air missiles as far as my visual clues goes.... I dont think anyone here can identify Taihang powered fighter even if they claim they can by just visual clues.

    This is what wikipedia has on J 11

    Serial manufacturing of the WS-10 and integration with the J-11, proved to be more difficult than expected. As a result, even though several related prototypes had been tested and at least one regiment converted to the Taihang powered J-11B version in 2007, these aircraft were later grounded for an extended period due to a poor operational reliability. A report in the Washington Times suggested that the Chinese engines lasted 30 hours before they needed servicing, compared to 400 hours for the Russian versions.[15] Defects were traced back to the engine manufacturer, Shenyang Liming Aircraft Engine Company employing sub-standard manufacturing and quality control procedures. Several subsequent batches temporarily reverted to the original, Russian AL-31F turbofans. The engines manufacturing problems had finally been solved by the end of 2009 and the WS-10A had reportedly proved mature enough to power the Block 02 aircraft

    Now as per the above statement it says Block 2 aircrafts but I dont know A) whether Serial No 24 qualifies as Block 2 & B) Nobody in western or Indian Media has any reliable inputs about China so we tend to take any news that comes from Russia on its face value!!
     
  21. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    why ? since you claim , then you prove that is a "the earlier models that were powered by Al 31"....LOL...

    as some senior member has pointed out... you even can't recognize AL31 and WS10 before you made stupid points.... LOL.

     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2014

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