High Speed Railway Corridor

[ladder]

Cockeyed and populist projects cannot be taken as doing anything for NE.

If you are hinting at segregation of railway lines and projects related to India's defense preparedness and mobility from populist ones I am for it, but projects that have already been declared can't be scrapped as it would create dangerous precedent.

But, all 600 odd projects that has already been declared all over India too can't be completed. Some have to be put into the back burner. But which ones? The net result of the answer of the same is the cause for the dire consequences that Indian railway faces today.

 

[Ray]

If you are hinting at segregation of railway lines and projects related to India's defense preparedness and mobility from populist ones I am for it, but projects that have already been declared can't be scrapped as it would create dangerous precedent.

But, all 600 odd projects that has already been declared all over India too can't be completed. Some have to be put into the back burner. But which ones? The net result of the answer of the same is the cause for the dire consequences that Indian railway faces today.

I am not against the principle of your contention.

I am for scrapping projects which are useless and populist. Save that money from further squandering and instead plough it into something profitable and worthwhile that benefits India and the Indian travelling public.

If I were the Railway Minister, I would have the Garib Rath at the prevalent rates with no modernisation to include dirty coaches and toilets.

And on the other have have Garibi Super Deluxe Rath will all the amenities and comfort to include ticketing.

Let us then see how many dolt use the original dirty and filthy Garib Raths.

Indians, poor as they maybe, still want a smooth ticketing and journey where they are treated as fare paying humans.

And ticket-less travelling requires immediate apprehending and sending to jail!

Corruption in the railways from the highest to the lowest is legend. Pawan Bansal is a case in point, There should be a CBI wing that nabs them and sent to the jail and then allowed to appear in Court, Indians are high on prestige, If one is jailed, he comes to mother earth and cannot show his face at home or his community.

By adding trains, one only clogs the rail and traffic. Yet, that is what the public loves. Note what that fool Mamata has said.

It is time to de-congest the traffic, but more lines, have a dedicated goods corridor and do traffic management and then add trains.

Connecting India should not only be populist, it should be also economically viable.

Like the Bullet train is a high flying dream. India cannot afford it. Yet, if it can be done on BOLT with domestic or foreign investment, then it is par for the course. It will help the businessmen and give the airlines a run for the money. Competition. The airlines will have to think of how to better the Bullet train!

Our mentality is very sluggish, We want everything, but only if it is free or subsidised.

Not our fault, It is drummed into us by the populist socialism from the Nehru days.

We are a crippled people, who don't want to earn our bread - reservations, quotas and whatever you want, but nothing on merit or hard work!

I am sure you heard the pathetic bleats of the ex Railway Minister regarding the Budget, when they are the porcine breed that has brought the railways to this sad state! Trivedi who tried to change was removed.

Populism, thy name is Indian politics and India!

Time to wake up and smell the coffee!

 

[ladder]

I am not against the principle of your contention.

I am for scrapping projects which are useless and populist. Save that money from further squandering and instead plough it into something profitable and worthwhile that benefits India and the Indian travelling public.

If I were the Railway Minister, I would have the Garib Rath at the prevalent rates with no modernisation to include dirty coaches and toilets.

And on the other have have Garibi Super Deluxe Rath will all the amenities and comfort to include ticketing.

Let us then see how many dolt use the original dirty and filthy Garib Raths.

Indians, poor as they maybe, still want a smooth ticketing and journey where they are treated as fare paying humans.

And ticket-less travelling requires immediate apprehending and sending to jail!

Corruption in the railways from the highest to the lowest is legend. Pawan Bansal is a case in point, There should be a CBI wing that nabs them and sent to the jail and then allowed to appear in Court, Indians are high on prestige, If one is jailed, he comes to mother earth and cannot show his face at home or his community.

By adding trains, one only clogs the rail and traffic. Yet, that is what the public loves. Note what that fool Mamata has said.

It is time to de-congest the traffic, but more lines, have a dedicated goods corridor and do traffic management and then add trains.

Connecting India should not only be populist, it should be also economically viable.

Like the Bullet train is a high flying dream. India cannot afford it. Yet, if it can be done on BOLT with domestic or foreign investment, then it is par for the course. It will help the businessmen and give the airlines a run for the money. Competition. The airlines will have to think of how to better the Bullet train!

Our mentality is very sluggish, We want everything, but only if it is free or subsidised.

Not our fault, It is drummed into us by the populist socialism from the Nehru days.

We are a crippled people, who don't want to earn our bread - reservations, quotas and whatever you want, but nothing on merit or hard work!

I am sure you heard the pathetic bleats of the ex Railway Minister regarding the Budget, when they are the porcine breed that has brought the railways to this sad state! Trivedi who tried to change was removed.

Populism, thy name is Indian politics and India!

Thanks for expanding the horizon from NE to whole of Indian Railways. It's where the problem lies. Yes NE has been neglected as it didn't get the international scrutiny that Kashmir got. We invested huge amount of money there but not in NE which required investments. But, that's a different topic altogether.

For railway lines which are strategic, I had proposed at a different gathering to set up a railway PSU in the model of BRO to look into those lines. Every project it takes up should be national project and railways shouldn't be asked to fund it. But it be funded from central govt. from a different head. That's what I meant in my previous post by the term segregation of strategic projects from rest. The positive and negative aspects of such a proposal can be discussed separately.

Now coming to the classification of useless and populist. I have a different take. If a infrastructure project ( not new trains) like new line or new factory if reaches it's logical end, I will never consider it useless or populist even if it is in/ links the constituency of Sonia G or Rahul G. As Indian investment 'earth' is such parched that any drop of water is welcome. Notwithstanding the fact that there were better and deserving candidates for the factory or the line. But, if the project is stalled midway due to change in govt. or minister then it becomes useless project as you have invested half the money but reaping zero benefits.

Now coming to introduction of new trains. I do concur with you it is a wasteful item which is done as a pseudo-populism feature because of 'nasha' of claps.( As the present Railway minister has termed it) and not for welfare of people as a railway study has shown that improving the signalling system will lead to a 3x density of trains in the existing lines. But that has not been done. This can't be the social obligation that the commies shout. Simply because the benefit is not reaching to the masses.

Now coming to new lines, yes it has to be economically viable. But that alone can't be the criteria. A line even if is not economically viable but runs through the moist infected area of Chattishgarh for example a new line between Raipur and Warangal in Telengana might not be economically viable but is a welcome step. But a bullet train between the two above mentioned location is a waste for the obvious reasons. ( If Raman Singh becomes rail minister and proposes so).

As the railway minister in his budget speech said the last 10 years were 'golden dilemma' to whether to run railway as a profiteering institution or as a social obligation. But the answer is not choosing the one from other. Even private entity has a CSR how can railway drop it's social obligation? But we have to decide the quantum of it in a scientific way.

Corruption as you rightfully mentioned is the cause of a lot of problem in the railways. The rail minister said he will remove the caterer if he serves unhygienic food and complaint is received against him/her. Is it new? Didn't the provision existed earlier? Didn't the people complain earlier? How does the contractor manages to slip? He bribes his way.

Accountability needs to be established. Not just in railways but everywhere in the country. But it's a tough ask, especially after reading what Sanjay Baru wrote.

Well if we classify what ails the railway into two heads one which is unique to railways and the other generic like corruption and accountability, we will notice the unique problems that railway faces are the lesser demon.

For Bullet train, as you pointed should be done by, BOT and BOLT. But in general the track speed should be increased for every train to represent a growing India. And that is a obligation of railways towards the country along with comfort, safety, health, transparency and friendliness.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

well this is really balanced budget. One terrible thing is operating cost 94%! Congressi attitude. Not to blame current govt.
.
one thing I found great is its doesn't tries to please big guys of parties like last govt did by railway factory at raibareily, or a separate railway provision of railway minister's district.

 

[Ashutosh Lokhande]

BTW, is bjp talking about the actual bullet train (320kph) or semi high speed trains (190kph).

afaik for bullet trains complete new infrastructure is needed from every nut and bolt to platform everything must be built from scratch.

 

[pmaitra]

On the Delhi Agra sector there was a pilot project with train running at 190 KMPH (max).

this is doable and needs to be done.

30 years back Delhi-Rajdhani used to take almost 17 hours and now also it is almost the same. This is indeed shameful.

It was reported at 160 kmph, not 190 kmph. The only thing about this is that it maintained 160 kmph for most of the time.

Do you have a different report that says 190 kmph?

 

[sob]

It was reported at 160 kmph, not 190 kmph. The only thing about this is that it maintained 160 kmph for most of the time.

Do you have a different report that says 190 kmph?

Seems I got the speed wrong. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[SLASH]

The Mumbai-Ahmedabad corridor is an industrial corridor. Even when there are so many trains in this sector it is still very difficult to get any tickets. Even after getting a first class ticket one cannot get a seat to sit in an unreserved compartment. Some of the richer Industrialist have started pooling helicopter to beat the traffic and trains. I think Mumbai-Ahmedabad bullet train will be feasible and the feasibility study will show the same. I hope they have stop at Vapi or Valsad.

 

[VIP]

The Mumbai-Ahmedabad corridor is an industrial corridor. Even when there are so many trains in this sector it is still very difficult to get any tickets. Even after getting a first class ticket one cannot get a seat to sit in an unreserved compartment. Some of the richer Industrialist have started pooling helicopter to beat the traffic and trains. I think Mumbai-Ahmedabad bullet train will be feasible and the feasibility study will show the same. I hope they have stop at Vapi or Valsad.

It won't, it will have Vadodara and Surat stop but not Vapi and Valsad...You know that, don't you ;p
I hope it would have Borivali atleast ;p

 

[xuxu]

I think India should be more realistic， in fact CHina's first high speed rail line started to be built in 2005, before that many many other things had been done, from 1997-2007, China's railway net raise the speed for 6 rounds,

first round in 1997.04.01, China only has 1398km speed>120KM/h, and 1340km>140km/h, only 752km>160km/h---total 3490km>120km/h

at the six round in 2007.04.18, China has 22000km>120km/h, 14000km>160km/h, 6000km>200km/h, 846km>250km/h---total 36600KM>120km/h

Then CHina mass built the high speed rail net at speed of 200km/h~350km/h.

Campaign to raise the speed of railway travel in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So I think if most of Indian rail way's speed is very slow, then to build one or two high speed line is useless, only a image projects with expensive money, India should updata most rail way net to reach the speed of 200km/h, then to build high speed railway >200km/h.

If the speed gap ,between most train with some Bullet Train, is big, will meet many problem, in China one rail line was used by the train with the speed of 120~200km/h and the train with >200km/h ,simultaneously, only need to let Bullet train to pass another at some station. If the speed gap is too big, only two way to chosen:1. one railway line only used by Bullet Train(Inefficient for the whole railway net); 2.let Bullet Train run at lower speed to use one line with general train(meaningless for Bullet Train).

 

[ramakrishna]

Seems I got the speed wrong. Thanks for pointing it out.

actually they are capable of touching 200 mark ... but as of now ... they recorded 160 speed ....

 

[Ray]

I think India should be more realistic， in fact CHina's first high speed rail line started to be built in 2005, before that many many other things had been done, from 1997-2007, China's railway net raise the speed for 6 rounds,

first round in 1997.04.01, China only has 1398km speed>120KM/h, and 1340km>140km/h, only 752km>160km/h---total 3490km>120km/h

at the six round in 2007.04.18, China has 22000km>120km/h, 14000km>160km/h, 6000km>200km/h, 846km>250km/h---total 36600KM>120km/h

Then CHina mass built the high speed rail net at speed of 200km/h~350km/h.

Campaign to raise the speed of railway travel in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So I think if most of Indian rail way's speed is very slow, then to build one or two high speed line is useless, only a image projects with expensive money, India should updata most rail way net to reach the speed of 200km/h, then to build high speed railway >200km/h.

If the speed gap ,between most train with some Bullet Train, is big, will meet many problem, in China one rail line was used by the train with the speed of 120~200km/h and the train with >200km/h ,simultaneously, only need to let Bullet train to pass another at some station. If the speed gap is too big, only two way to chosen:1. one railway line only used by Bullet Train(Inefficient for the whole railway net); 2.let Bullet Train run at lower speed to use one line with general train(meaningless for Bullet Train).

Thanks for the advice and I am sure that is important.

However, knowing Modi, he does not do anything without detailed thought and discussions with expert to include the Japanese, the people who have the most experience on Bullet trains, technology and operations.

India is building dedicated corridors for passenger and dedicated for freight. The traffic is so immense that adding new trains as was being done was only clogging the movement with unacceptable delays and heartburns.

Bullet train between Ahmedabad - Mumbai is not only a Technology Demonstrator, but also to ensure businessmen can work even when travelling, which is not feasible when flying by aircraft. Not a moment to be lost, if India wants it businesses to be productive.

 

[SLASH]

It won't, it will have Vadodara and Surat stop but not Vapi and Valsad...You know that, don't you ;p
I hope it would have Borivali atleast ;p

They cannot have a stop at Borivali because according to the plan in had seen in TOI it said, BKC--Thane--Diva--Virar--Palghar. It did not mention any cities in Gujarat. However, after Palghar/Boisar, the only industrial town after it is Vapi (which is around 100 kms from Boisar). There needs to be a stop at Vapi as it would defeat the purpose of connecting the industrial towns to the two big cities in the region. Even in China I have seen a stop at every 50 kms. So the ideal stops should be BKC--Thane--Vasai/Virar--Boisar/Palghar--Umargaon--Vapi/Valsad--Navsari--Surat--Bharuch--Vadodra--Anand/Nadiad--Ahmedabad.

BKC to Thane is supposed to be underground. In that case they should think of starting the line somewhere in South Mumbai. BKC is proposed because the diamond bourse has shifted there. However, BKC is not connected by train or metro with the rest of the city. So getting to BKC will be a problem for daily traveller. But I think by the time bullet trains start operation Mumbai would have the entire metro system in place.

Bullet trains will only be feasible if it gets everyday travelling people. For that Industrial towns needs to be well connected not residential areas.

 

[मुल्लों का काल]

I think India should be more realistic， in fact CHina's first high speed rail line started to be built in 2005, before that many many other things had been done, from 1997-2007, China's railway net raise the speed for 6 rounds,

first round in 1997.04.01, China only has 1398km speed>120KM/h, and 1340km>140km/h, only 752km>160km/h---total 3490km>120km/h

at the six round in 2007.04.18, China has 22000km>120km/h, 14000km>160km/h, 6000km>200km/h, 846km>250km/h---total 36600KM>120km/h

Then CHina mass built the high speed rail net at speed of 200km/h~350km/h.

Campaign to raise the speed of railway travel in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So I think if most of Indian rail way's speed is very slow, then to build one or two high speed line is useless, only a image projects with expensive money, India should updata most rail way net to reach the speed of 200km/h, then to build high speed railway >200km/h.

If the speed gap ,between most train with some Bullet Train, is big, will meet many problem, in China one rail line was used by the train with the speed of 120~200km/h and the train with >200km/h ,simultaneously, only need to let Bullet train to pass another at some station. If the speed gap is too big, only two way to chosen:1. one railway line only used by Bullet Train(Inefficient for the whole railway net); 2.let Bullet Train run at lower speed to use one line with general train(meaningless for Bullet Train).

The engines used by Indian trains are capable of reaching speeds in excess of 200 km/hour however most of the tracks are still british era which cannot handle that speed

 

[xuxu]

Thanks for the advice and I am sure that is important.

However, knowing Modi, he does not do anything without detailed thought and discussions with expert to include the Japanese, the people who have the most experience on Bullet trains, technology and operations.

India is building dedicated corridors for passenger and dedicated for freight. The traffic is so immense that adding new trains as was being done was only clogging the movement with unacceptable delays and heartburns.

Bullet train between Ahmedabad - Mumbai is not only a Technology Demonstrator, but also to ensure businessmen can work even when travelling, which is not feasible when flying by aircraft. Not a moment to be lost, if India wants it businesses to be productive.

Another choice is, build one busy line which only uses Bullet Trains, just as from Beijing to Shanghai, many bullet trains on one line without other general trains.
Another very important point: build and made by your self when mass build, or that's a Money black hole，even for maintain the trains just as if you change all your parts of your car at 4S repair station, should spend 4-8times of buying a same new car

 

[xuxu]

The engines used by Indian trains are capable of reaching speeds in excess of 200 km/hour however most of the tracks are still british era which cannot handle that speed

China changed 12.5m short track to Seamless tracks with 500m~3km，or high speed train will dither when passing so many cracks.

Making the railway closed will let existing trains run faster

 

[मुल्लों का काल]

China changed 12.5m short track to Seamless tracks with 500m~3km，or high speed train will dither when passing so many cracks.

Making the railway closed will let existing trains run faster

Good for chinese...Indian railways need to change tracks...if they do so average speed will go up without any other changes to 120-160 and a maximum of 200-225 with existing engines itself...as of now those engines have potential of 225 km/hour...but they are run at 80-90 max due to ancient tracks

 

[मुल्लों का काल]

Another choice is, build one busy line which only uses Bullet Trains, just as from Beijing to Shanghai, many bullet trains on one line without other general trains.
Another very important point: build and made by your self when mass build, or that's a Money black hole，even for maintain the trains just as if you change all your parts of your car at 4S repair station, should spend 4-8times of buying a same new car

And how do we build ourselves.
In the case of high speed Chinese trains.The railway technology was acquired in the 1980s and early 1990s from France, Japan and Germany and "indigenised".
Indians don't copy like that,and our industry isn't a developed one really.

 

[VIP]

They cannot have a stop at Borivali because according to the plan in had seen in TOI it said, BKC--Thane--Diva--Virar--Palghar. It did not mention any cities in Gujarat. However, after Palghar/Boisar, the only industrial town after it is Vapi (which is around 100 kms from Boisar). There needs to be a stop at Vapi as it would defeat the purpose of connecting the industrial towns to the two big cities in the region. Even in China I have seen a stop at every 50 kms. So the ideal stops should be BKC--Thane--Vasai/Virar--Boisar/Palghar--Umargaon--Vapi/Valsad--Navsari--Surat--Bharuch--Vadodra--Anand/Nadiad--Ahmedabad.

BKC to Thane is supposed to be underground. In that case they should think of starting the line somewhere in South Mumbai. BKC is proposed because the diamond bourse has shifted there. However, BKC is not connected by train or metro with the rest of the city. So getting to BKC will be a problem for daily traveller. But I think by the time bullet trains start operation Mumbai would have the entire metro system in place.

Bullet trains will only be feasible if it gets everyday travelling people. For that Industrial towns needs to be well connected not residential areas.

I don't see many passengers boarding train at Vapi, Valsad. Most of people are from Surat, Vadodara and Ahmedabad. I don't know much about Maharashtra but don't you think having lots of stops would increase travelling time ?

 

[p2prada]

Another choice is, build one busy line which only uses Bullet Trains, just as from Beijing to Shanghai, many bullet trains on one line without other general trains.
Another very important point: build and made by your self when mass build, or that's a Money black hole，even for maintain the trains just as if you change all your parts of your car at 4S repair station, should spend 4-8times of buying a same new car

The idea is to connect the major cities with bullet trains. Kinda like this.

That entire "quadrilateral" is high traffic area. The above image is for highways.

So, we had the previous NDA regime starting a major road project called the Golden Quadrilateral and the current NDA regime is starting a new bullet train project called the Diamond Quadrilateral.

High-speed rail in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This will give you an idea of what's planned.