Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by H.A., Jul 10, 2012.
M777-ER is a 155/55 Cal gun not a 52 Cal one , targeted range is 70Km.
BHARAT FORGE has a declared capability to make one gun every two days or a production run of 15 units/month at it's existing facilities, this can be increased exponentially with the addition of facilities provided orders come through.
I seriously doubt it but it is possible. From what I gathered from the open sources is that it is 52 Cal.
M77 ER is 52 caliber : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M777_howitzer
It is in concept phase and not in operation use in any army. Also 70 km is rocket assisted projectile.
We now have indegenous artillery in every category of 155 mm possible:
1. 39 caliber : KALYANI ULH (Bharat 39)
2. 45 caliber : Dhanush, Bharat 45(Kalyani)
3. 52 caliber : ATAGS (DRDO + TATA+ KALYANI), Bharat 52 (Kalyani), OFB 52 cal based on Dhanush.
Within just a span of 7-8 years since 2010 we have become a world leader in 155 mm artillery systems.
All due to private firms...........
These are not DPiSU which employ reservation quota chaap Parasites a curse of Ambedkar to India...........
Do you Know Ordnance Factory Jabalpur was sitting on Blue Prints and technology transferred by Bofors to India to manufacture Bofors in India? With these they came up with Dhanush gun. Why now and not before? To save their Ass when they saw Kalyani steel is coming up with 155mm gun they jump on it to prevent their entry to save reservation chaap jobs for their reservation chaap Parasite brothers ...............
How many artillery shells are we capable of making? How much is the cost for artillery shell?
The wiki page is incorrect the M777ER is a 55 cal howitzer.
As of today all the 155/39/45/52 cal howitzers you've named remain concepts except for the Dhanush which is in limited production only.
The OFB manufactured 7552 155mm HE ERFB (BB) shells in 2014, value of one shell was approximately 67,000Rs.
Only 7552 that's too low.
We need to have capacity of minimum 10k rounds per day because in future we will have 3000+ 155mm guns.
In case of war those 7k rounds will be exhausted in minutes.
The cost of shell is empty or filled with explosives?
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In Kargil war, 2lakh + shells were used. I think, a cost of 1000 dollars per shell would have destroyed the economy back then for such a small scale war. But, history shows that artillery fire has been generous with very little cost. In WW2, final siege of Berlin by USSR, 1 million shell was used in 1 hour. History always shows artillery to be ver cheap. It is surprising to see it cost that much
Artillery shell is mass produced. It may be unfortunate that it was mismanaged
Peace time capacity of DPiSU OFB employing PARASITE reservation quota chaaps but for war time too these good for nothing won't be able to produce much I suppose. There should be a concerted efforts and a nationwide movement to remove these reservation quota chaap parasites from all PiSUs & DPiSUs to save tax payer money. It is like govt. robbing money from my pocket to give to these bastard robbers......
Here is excerpt from Baba Kalyani interview how they save the day during Kargil war:
Days Of Getting A Defence Contract Because You Know Somebody Are Gone: Baba Kalyani, Bharat Forge
"Q: While you are ready with these next-gen guns, the industry doesn’t have any control on the ammunition side. Does this affect your plans and sales?
A : We have been making empty ammunition for years and we have a whole line in our plant for this. But private sector is not allowed to fill explosives nor is the government beginning to open it up to the private sector. I have said this before that during the Kargil war, Army was running out of shells for the Bofors guns. So the Ministry of Defence came to me and said, start manufacturing from tomorrow. So I made special arrangements and made 100,000 shells and gave it to the government."
What stage is Dhanush after the muzzle break failure.
Are AFB making any progress?
You're correct the ARMY had an indent for 15000 shells, the figures i quoted were from a CAG report damning the OFB for not meeting targets, not much has changed yet.
Cost is for a complete ready to fire shell.
will go in for retests after corrections!
Correction of what - shell quality or the hardware..
Metallurgy skills are Kalyani Group’s springboard to defence production
The Kalyani Group's Bharat 52 gun, which is undergoing test firing at present
By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 23rd Oct 17
Indian engineers, who struggled for decades to design high-tech weaponry like the Tejas fighter and Arjun tank, are enjoying unusually quick success in developing what promises to be a world-class artillery gun.
At firing trials on September 4, prominent defence firm, Tata Power (Strategic Engineering Division), was cock-a-hoop when its Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS) fired three shells to a world-record 47.2 kilometres – three kilometres longer than contemporary guns.
But Tata Power (SED)’s record lasted just one day.
The next morning, a second ATAGS gun, which the Kalyani Group has built according to a parallel development strategy, broke that record by achieving a range of just over 48 kilometres.
Both guns achieved this record-breaking performance with “high explosive – base bleed” (HE-BB) ammunition, which is optimised for longer ranges.
The Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO), which conceived and designed the 155-millimetre, 52-calibre ATAGS, has fed the design to Tata Power (SED) and the Kalyani Group. Based on those requirements, the two companies have built and are test-firing competing gun prototypes.
While Tata Power (SED) has worked with the DRDO earlier, the new partnership with Kalyani Group is proving to be an inspired choice. The Pune-based firm has engineered a barrel and breech so good that the Tatas are using it in their gun as well.
While Kalyani Group is relatively new to modern defence systems that incorporate advanced information technology, its flagship company, Bharat Forge – the world’s largest forgings manufacturer – is a global leader in metallurgy expertise.
Metallurgy is fundamental to any defence industry, since it underpins the construction of guns, armoured platforms and warships. The 430-year-old German metals giant, Krupp, spearheaded the emergence of Germany’s defence industry, and leads it even today. The Kalyani Group believes it can do the same for India.
Says the Kalyani Group’s hard charging supremo, Babasaheb (Baba) Kalyani: “Our basic technology competence lies in metallurgy. We make our steel, we forge it, we machine it, we heat treat it. Very few companies in the world can match our skills in products like gun barrels.”
Over the years, Kalyani Group has integrated upstream as well as downstream from Bharat Forge. Pune-based Kalyani Carpenter and Kalyani Steels make alloy steel for the ATAGS barrel. Another group company, Mysore-based Automotive Axles, specialises in “drive lines”, on which the gun is mounted. A high-tech fabrication shop in Satara assembles the gun.
Business Standard visited the Kalyani Group facility in Pune, where the company is developing several artillery systems at its own cost, in order to develop skills. The guns are built in an artillery factory bought from Swiss defence firm, RUAG, and shipped in entirety from Austria to Pune.
Its produces include the 155-millimetre, 52 calibre Bharat 52, which is undergoing test firing; a 45 calibre version of the same gun; a truck-mounted 105-millimetre gun called the Garuda, which the army found so promising it financed it through the Army Technology Board; and a 155-millimetre, 39 calibre, titanium ultra-light howitzer that Kalyani is pitching against the BAE Systems M777 gun that India has contracted for.
“The Indian Army has already bought 145 M777 guns. But, by March , my indigenous ultra-light howitzer will be ready to compete with the BAE Systems gun”, promises Kalyani.
Kalyani Group engineers who work on ATAGS say its exceptional range stems from its larger chamber – 25 litres, compared to 23 litres in similar guns. This allows the gun to be fired with more explosive, propelling the warhead further. To absorb the higher “shock of discharge”, Kalyani Group says it has built its barrel and breech with a complex new metallurgy.
Making ATAGS an easy-to-handle gun is an unprecedented all-electric system, in which machinery does what gun crews do manually in other guns: handling heavy ammunition, ramming it into the chamber and opening and closing the heavy breech.
Its one-of-a-kind, six-round “automated magazine” loads and fires a six-round burst in just 30 seconds. Most other guns in service have three-round magazines that must be reloaded after firing three rounds.
Firing off six rounds in 30 seconds is an important capability since artillery causes most casualties in the initial burst of fire, which catches enemy soldiers in the open. Once they dive into their trenches, artillery fire is less effective.
“The ATAGS team has created a new benchmark in artillery. For decades, no new artillery gun has been designed anywhere in the world. This is the first gun in 30 years designed afresh, from scratch”, points out Baba Kalyani.
The next test for the gun is “cold weather trials” in Sikkim in December. Before then, the gun will undergo some modifications. To expedite trials, Tata Power (SED) and Kalyani Group will start the building of three more ATAGs prototypes.
source : http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/
Defence Ministry clear 40 ATAGS for army.
Who's making it? Kalyani or TATA?
Chances are it was the ammunition that were faulty.
You can't really expect OFB or ECIL or both to mend their ways in a matter of months(The M-777 barrel bursting).
Barrels burst for both Bofor as well as M777 have happened before in India as well as abroad. Are these to be blamed on ammunition problems also.
Separate names with a comma.