China's 'gift' of Z-10 helicopters to Pakistan raises suspicion

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by Blackwater, Mar 17, 2015.

  1. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    [​IMG]

    China's reported decision to present Pakistan three Z-10 attack helicopters as a "gift" this year has raised suspicions of ulterior motives, says Duowei News, a US-based Chinese political news outlet.

    Citing unconfirmed Russian media reports, Duowei claims that although Pakistan had shown an interest purchasing the Z-10s, which are designed by Russia's Kamov Design Bureau under contract from Beijing, China decided to give the helicopters to its "closest friend" for free.

    The Z-10s, designed primarily for anti-tank missions with secondary air-to-air capabilities, will reportedly be added to the Pakistan Army aviation fleet and be deployed in the ongoing fight against terrorism in the country. The helicopter is said to be capable of targeting the enemy in the air or on the ground with a range of 3-4 kilometers without appearing on radar.

    Some military experts have cast doubt on the effectiveness of the Z-10 on counterterrorism operations, saying that its WZ-9 operation engine has relatively low power as well as a smaller payload and weaker defensive capabilities in comparison to other attack helicopters.

    Even if the reports of the gift are true, Duowei said, the new Z-10 helicopters will only enhance Pakistan's position against India, which is about to pair its domestically produced light combat helicopters with newly imported AH-64 Apache attack helicopters manufactured by Boeing. Though there is still a sizable gap between the power systems of Z-10s and Apaches, the Chinese aircraft's body design and weapon system configurations are comparable to the world's most advanced attack helicopters, especially because of the excellent performance of its TY-90 air-to-air missiles.

    For China, the "gift" to Pakistan could serve as a gift for the givers as well, as it might allow the PLA to see how the Z-10s perform in actual combat situations, providing valuable data for further research and development, Duowei said. China may have already been collecting information on its domestically produced weaponry acquired by Pakistan in recent years, including the MBT-3000 tank, the JF-17 Thunder combat aircraft and the F-22P general purpose frigate. The decision to make the Z-10s a gift instead of selling them could therefore stem from Pakistan's limited defense budget and China's relatively robust arms industry, Duowei added.
     
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  3. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    [video=dailymotion;x2ivvc3]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ivvc3_china-gifts-three-z-10-helicopters-to-pakistan_news#from=embediframe[/video]
     
  4. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    @sgarg
    @madindian
    @bangloreon


    :taunt::taunt::taunt::taunt::taunt:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  5. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I am not surprised.

    Pakistan to survive requires gifts since they are bankrupt and decadent.
    @Neo maybe able to explain.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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  6. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    IAF still have to place an order for Apache and pakis received their first Apache equivalent ..

    i am amazed with the ways pakis acquire military stuff
     
  7. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    like in a separate thread the world's leading arms exporters owe big thanks to u guys on top of the buy~buy, namely India and Saudi.

    we know u're filthily rich and it's a big pleasure to milk old misers as much as possible amid such a harsh economic slowdown.

    apache, tomahawk, mohican… open your wallet and suit yourself.

    ~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  8. smestarz

    smestarz Senior Member Senior Member

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    Frstly WZ-10 is nowhere equal to Apache AH-64D or Mi-28 or Ka-50 in terms of ability and maturity, but its good product by China.
    3 helicopters are not going to be a game changer for Pakistan or India. but surely if these are in action, they give the vital feedback of short comings to the Chinese who can then try and perfect the product based on actual combat experience and not just simulations.
     
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  9. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Looks like an attempt to prove the platform in actual war situation.
     
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  10. salute

    salute Senior Member Senior Member

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    military guys already expected that china will gave some free gifts to pakis because of purchase of apache by india even before the actual purchase.:taunt1:
     
  11. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    Perhaps it is to help them administer the newly acquired naval territory ?
    Territorial waters: Pakistan’s sea grows by 50,000 sq kms - The Express Tribune
    Territorial waters: Pakistan’s sea grows by 50,000 sq kms
    quote :-
    ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s exclusive economic zone has grown by 150 nautical miles, adding around 50,000 square kilometres of international waters to its territory.

    A United Nations commission has accepted Pakistan’s claim for extension of its continental shelf limits from 200 nautical miles to 350 nautical miles, according to a statement issued by the Pakistan Navy on Friday. “This adds over 50,000 sq kms of continental shelf to the existing 240,000 sq kms of EEZ under Pakistan’s jurisdiction,” its added.
    end of quote

    I think the issue was probably prompted by ccp-china ?

    and this happens while our Indian people are preoccupied with rape cases, murder of admin officers
    who are uncovering corruption and all sorts of basic and cannibalistic -level of problems


    meanwhile a clearly superior china is forging ahead and using packland and their resources .
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2015
  12. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Pakis want to show case that in their prade on 23rd March , bloody show off
     
  13. GUNS-N- ROSES

    GUNS-N- ROSES Regular Member

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    in india babus govern military. in Pakistan it is opposite. no wonder their pace of acquisition is much quicker. if u study their recent arms purchases they have effectively utilised the limited resources they have to plug gaps in defence capability.
     
  14. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    all three have been delivered and the assembly work on the way...

    if these birds could pass the Pakistani Evaluation, Z-10 might be chosen as the replacement of AH-1 gunships...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    They will pass the Pakistani evaluation. They have no options.

    The US can anytime, depending on its mood, but an embargo. China would not and would ensure a continuous supply.

    Further, the Chinese machines will be way cheaper.
     
  16. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Assembled Z-10 and the pilot from PA...

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    did he get training in china or pakistan???
     
  18. blue marlin

    blue marlin Regular Member

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    according to my sources
    these 3 choppers are for testing and evaluation purposes only and once the Pakistani army gives back improvement to china they will improve it and also Pakistan would place a large enough order to co produce with turkish t129 sub-systems and components. note my source told me that these choppers are not 'gifts' but a part of a larger deal/agreement. indians should not hate but but take note and learn from there actions to improve your own
    @Blackwater
     
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  19. Adioz

    Adioz Irregular member

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    I believe you are right in saying that they plan to test the system in combat and then offer an improvement to the Pakistan Army.
    That is the main cause for concern. I believe the initial order would be about as big as the Indian Apache deal. Somewhere on the web, they say the number is 17 copters.

    These Z-10s were innitialy designed by Russian Kamov helicopter co. The development from prototype stage onward was taken over by Changhe Aircraft co. Looks like the Russians are really desperate for money.
    :laugh:

    Maybe DRDO can have a similar contract that allows Russians to assist development in weapon systems DRDO is not comfortable in designing.
    :drool:

    How well would Z-10 fare in a Himalayan engagement?
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2015
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  20. blue marlin

    blue marlin Regular Member

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    yes that seems logical and straight forward

    russia is never desperate for money it just knows how to make money . and that is what has happened here. the chopper the Chinese but kamov gave design inputs to contribute to the chopper. it never designed the chopper wholly.

    anything is possible when money talks, but you need a defence budget as large as chinas. i wont be surprised to find out that russia helped with the LCA.

    i dont know. but i would imagine that they would be a variant with more powerful engines and other things that would contribute to allowing the z10 to do combat in high altitudes. india has the same idea with the HAL LCA. pakistani defence planners would have worked out they need some high altitude attack choppers. they may either deploy the viper which is being configured for high altitude combat. so it's either the z10 or the viper
     
  21. blue marlin

    blue marlin Regular Member

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    he might be from india, just check on that for me
     

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