Breaking India: Romila Thapar

Discussion in 'Religion & Culture' started by Das ka das, Jul 4, 2013.

  1. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    Romila Thapar is one of the most famous Marxist historians on Ancient India. Her books and writings are a source of reference and inspiration for many of FOIL’s ideas on Hindus and India. She has heavily influenced the way Indian history is written and studied in India and abroad. Thanks to her efforts, Indian history books continue to peddle the racist theory that India was invaded by light-skinned foreigners known as Aryans, who drove the indigenous people known as Dravidians down South and imposed their Brahminic/Vedic religion on the indigenous people.

    Malhotra and Neelakandan highlight Thapar’s views briskly:

    Hindu spiritual experiences are devalued as even pathological. She resorts to a quasi-scholarly speculation of racial hatred as existing in entire Indian traditions when she wonders, ‘as to whether the references to the rakshasa, the preta and the daitya, demons and ghosts of various kinds, could have been a reference to the alien people of the forest. Demonizing the ‘other’ is sometimes a technique to justify holding such people in contempt and even attacking them’. This is exactly the same thesis that is being spread today by Maoist insurgents working among remote tribes in central India, namely, that demons mentioned in Hinduism are actually references to tribal people.[1]

    Thus, Maoist insurgents, deemed as a major national security threat by the Prime Minister of India, use analyses of scholars like Thapar to justify their violent war.

    She accepts the myth of St. Thomas and his martyrdom in South India as “credible”[2]. “Thapar does recognize the legitimacy of Jesus as the Christ and accepts the historicity of his existence while denying the historicity of Rama”.[3] As a further example of Thapar’s biased views, in 2005, she worked with western Indologists like Michael Witzel and Steve Farmer and lambasted several edits proposed by California Indian parents with respect to the portrayals of Hinduism in 6th grade textbooks. Though they were factual errors, Thapar and her cronies dismissed them entirely and blasted several individuals and organizations as “Hindu fascists” that were bent on changing history and religious texts.

    Such ‘authoritative’ writings are also utilized by the Church to harvest Indian souls. Malhotra and Neelakandan, point out to the example of Cambridge Jesuit theologian Michael Barnes. According to the authors, Barnes defines the “…the recent phenomenon of ‘low-caste insurgency’…as an ‘agitation against the hegemonic culture of Brahminically dominant elite’”.[4] Barnes then proceeds further to campaign the Church’s support for these insurgents who consider a unified Indian civilization and nation as a “…narrow interpretation of Indian culture, derived from Vedic times as a creation of the Aryan people”[5]. He cites Romila Thapar and states that “‘influence of both oriental and Hindu-nationalist concepts of ‘Indian identity’ are being held up to an increasingly critical scrutiny’”.[6]

    In another instance, Robert Eric Frykenberg, professor emeritus of History and South Asian Studies at University of Wisconsin-Madison, in his paper entitled, Hindu Fundamentalism and the Structural Stability of India at the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, he states that the ideas of India and Hinduism are “by-products of official policies of the British Company’s Raj, and he dismisses ‘the fallacy of assuming that some sort of inclusive Hinduism existed”.[7] His source is none other than Thapar, especially her statement that ancient Indians should be seen as merely “‘a cluster of distinctive sects and cults’”[8]. This portrays India as a chaotic cluster much like the various tribes of third-world nations before the European conquest. Under this purview, Hinduism as an entity is a recently machinated phenomenon.

    Thapar was appointed as the holder of the Kluge Chair at the Library of Congress in 2003. In 2008, she accepted the $1 Million prize with another recipient Peter Robert Lamont Brown.[9] However, while Thapar gladly accepted the $1 Million prize, she twice declined the Indian government’s highest award, the Padma Bhushan.[10] Perhaps she wanted to stay award from being seen as politically aligned to a particular ideology or government. However, Malhotra and Neelakandan point out that the Kluge award is well-known for being often given to Christian evangelicals.[11] Even more interestingly, according to Kluge Center’s website, “The Center seeks to bring a group of the world’s best senior thinkers – the Kluge Scholars – into residence, to stimulate, energize, and distill wisdom from the rich resources of the Library and to interact naturally over a period of time with political Washington [Emphasis Added]. There is great flexibility in the interaction between the scholars and Members of Congress [Emphasis Added] within the Jefferson Building, where lawmakers find a haven for serious discourse only a short walk from the Capitol.[12][Emphasis added]. Why then, did Thapar accept an award that is politically close to Washington (though not offered directly by the American government)?

    In another irony, Thapar was given the award even though here research has demonized Hinduism and demolished the sense of Indian civilization. Her co-recipient meanwhile, according to Malhotra and Neelakandan, “…is a historian of early Christian monasticism and his work has brought out a positive picture of Christian monasticism that is equivalent to the Indian spiritual culture which Thapar condemned as life-negating escapism.”[13]

    Romila Thapar | "The Forum of Intentional Liars"
    [HR][/HR]

    This is just a miniscule fraction of what Breaking India reveals about this foreign funded nexus in India. All the quotations in this article are from that book.
     
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  3. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Wrong. The brain-dead Hindutva mujtahids couldn't differentiate between a Marxist and non-Marxist historian to save their lives. Or even a temple.
     
  4. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    Wow you are calling Rajiv Malhotra a "brain-dead Hindutva mujahid"...do some research before you spew your venom.
     
  5. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    This is a old TOI article
    [HR][/HR]

    PM's daughter takes on Marxist view of history

    NEW DELHI: Just when PM Manmohan Singh has taken on his communist partners over the nuclear deal, his daughter, professor Upinder Singh, has come up with a book which challenges the Marxist version of ancient Indian history.

    While praising Marxist historians for uncovering the history of non-elite groups and other contributions, Singh disagrees with them for their reliance on unilinear historical models derived from western historical and anthropological works.

    She also delves extensively into ancient India's cultural past — art, literature, religion and philosophy — in sharp contrast to Marxist historians who focused on "social and economic interpretations".

    Singh, however, is not one to discard the Marxist approach altogether. "Being a student of history in the 1970s, I am a product of the shift from the nationalist to the Marxist view and so I have drawn from both," the DU historian told TOI, identifying herself as "belonging to the liberal space which is so important".

    Singh's 704-page A History of Ancient and Early Medieval India: From the Stone Age to the 12th Century is targeted at graduate and post-graduate students and will be released on July 18.

    With her keen interest in archaeology, Singh seeks to challenge Marxist historians like Romila Thapar, and provides, for those "writing the new NCERT school books," more than one interpretation of ancient Indian history, and encouraging them to look for more.

    Elaborating on her divergences with the Marxist school which have dominated the campuses since the 70s, Singh stressed the need for students of ancient Indian history to pay attention also to cultural aspects — art, literature religion and philosophy. "Religious doctrines, I feel, are important for students to understand things in context," she said.

    In the introductory chapter, Singh discusses the contributions and flaws of the various schools. "Marxist historiography also contributed towards uncovering the history of non-elite groups, many of whom had suffered centuries of subordination and marginalization. While making these valuable contributions, Marxist writing often tended to work with unilinear historical models derived from western historical and anthropological writings," she writes.

    Sketching out her differences with the Marxist school, Singh notes that shift of population from rural to urban areas did not take place as suggested in the model as "most people of the subcontinent continued to live in villages".

    Asked about likely controversies after the book's release, she said, "Given that a controversy came up about a book that did not exist, I must say it can really vitiate the atmosphere. History always has a political element, it is always connected with power and power structures, with strong views on it even among ordinary people. But ultimately the book will be judged in the long run by students of history."

    Explaining the purpose in the preface, she said, "It is necessary to expose them to the complex details and textures of history... unresolved issues... have been presented as such, rather than conveying a false sense of certainty. Where there are debates, the different perspectives have been presented, along with my own assessment of which arguments are convincing and which ones are not."

    PM's daughter takes on Marxist view of history - Times Of India

    [HR][/HR]

    So now Upinder Singh is a "Hindutva mujahid"?
     
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  6. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Actually, from the article you posted, it doesn't seem that Rajiv Malhotra himself is calling Thapar a Marxist (not that I care for him). It seems like the author is the one making the claim, and he does seem like a typical brain-dead Hindutva mujtahid.

    And can you yourself differentiate between a Marxist and non-Marxist narrative? I asked this to TrueSpirit on some other thread, and he responded with beating around the bush and more BS, which I interpret as "I have no idea what I'm talking about".
     
  7. dhananjay1

    dhananjay1 Regular Member

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    She is a marxist historian. It was intellectually fashionable to be one before, but since the collapse of Marxist governments, people like her have toned down their Marxist rhetoric to suit new terms. It's weird to see secular sycophants like you who likes to grovel before the altar of pious Jihadis like Tipu Sultan, calling others mujahids. You are just confused.
     
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  8. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Lol. Show me where Romila uses a "Marxist interpretation" of history, and/or where she calls herself a "Mrarxist". You probably haven't read any of her work. Actual Marxist historians of India include D.D. Kosambi, R.S. Sharma, and Irfan Habib, though you probably haven't read any of them either.

    And the term I use for the Hindutvadis is "mujtahid", not "mujahid". Though the latter would probably be appropriate as well.
     
  9. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    Angana Chatterji

    Angana Chatterji is a Professor of Social and Cultural Anthropology at the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS).[1] Ironically, CIIS was established to bring the integral teachings of Hindu spiritual giant Sri Aurobindo and his Integral Yoga (Purna Yoga) in the US.[2] Chatterji uses her position in CIIS to basically do the opposite – i.e. to demonize Hinduism and the Indian state. One wonders how Chatterji, a rabid anti-India/anti-Hindu advocate, can even be associated with CIIS.

    Prior to joining CIIS, she worked in policy and advocacy research for the Indian Social Institute (ISI). This is an organization run by Jesuits and founded by Fr. Jerome D’Souza, Jesuit Priest and educationist[3]. On its website, the ISI, among its role and identity, mentions: For advocacy, the institute also bends its research methods in order to inflate the magnitude of the social problem [emphasis added] described, and thereby suggests social action to address the issue[4]. In other words, ISI feels quite comfortable showing one-sided research and inflating numbers to show the ‘human rights violations’ done by ‘Hindu extremists’ against Dalits, minorities, women and children. This is not surprising, since many of these types of NGOs (run by Christian organizations) tend to pump up the data and cast Hinduism/India in a negative light to strengthen their case of religious conversion in the name of human rights. Problems of discrimination are largely blamed on Hinduism, even though caste issues are prominent among Indian Christians[5] and Muslims[6]. Indeed, amongst the publications of the Institute is one book called Human Rights in Indian Situation by Joseph Benjamin, a professor at St. Francis de Sales’ College in Nagpur, India.[7] The book claims to ‘holistically’ document the human rights violations against Dalits, women, etc. by the Indian government and by the Hindu Caste System. What’s more, such data is used by other organizations (especially Christian organizations) across the world to highlight the ‘bad news’ about Hinduism. America Magazine, a prominent Catholic magazine, cites the ISI in the following sentence: “According to New Delhi’s Indian Social Institute, recent Hindu-Muslim riots and attacks on Christians are instigated by affluent, elite, high-caste Hindus who are trying to expel threats to the brahminic caste system, or Varna—the Hindu ideology of superiority and inferiority based on birth, profession, pollution and purity”[8]. Thus, Hindus are depicted as a violent lot that aims to rid anyone who challenges their social structures and systems.

    Chatterji is also involved in the Campaign to Stop Funding Hate (CSFH), another organization founded by members of FOIL and other Indian Leftists/Communists. Chatterji provided ‘critical assistance’ to a highly libelous and unsubstantiated report that damned a US-based Indian charity organization, India Development Relief Fund (IDRF), alleging that they were funding hatred and atrocities against Indian minorities.[9] The driving force behind this was that IDRF’s schools in Indian rural and tribal areas were providing a successful alternative to Christian missionary schools involved in conversion, and Chatterji was brought in to defame the non-Christian competition that IDRF provided.[10] More information about CSFH is provided later in the report.

    Malhotra and Neelakandan state that “while she finds US intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan to be a violation of those countries’ civil rights…she still wants US intervention in India’s affairs, for example, through the US Commission on International Religious Freedom”.[11] In fact, “Chatterji provided testimony before the United States Congressional Task Force on International Religious Freedom on violence in Orissa, chaired by Congressmen Trent Franks and Joseph R. Pitts, both with strong right-wing evangelical connections.”[12] “She also sent an unsolicited testimony on Orissa to the Government of India, in which all her data came directly from the report by the All Indian Christian Council. Her data was so one-sided that she completely ignored some well-established facts about the aggressive evangelism involved and the nexus between Christian evangelists and Maoists in the state.”[13]

    “She describes the social services done by Hindu organizations, as ‘conscription into Hindu activism’, even as she praises the same kind of social work in ‘health care, education and employment offered by Christian missionaries”.[14]

    She is the co-convener of the International People’s Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Indian-administered Kashmir[15]. The Tribunal seeks to analyze the conditions in Kashmir wrought by Indian military occupation and the subjugation of movements for self-determination, as well as the cycles of violence they produced, including and the earlier armed militancy of 1990s until 2007.[16] Curiously, this Tribunal is ruthlessly focused on the Indian state and the ‘Hindu extremist’ support against Islamist terror. It completely ignores the human rights violations against Hindu Kashmiri Pandits and the situation in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK), thought it’s really meant to be an ‘International’ People’s Tribunal. She was invited to a conference on Kashmir, organized by the Pakistani Students Association at George Washington University, the Embassy of Pakistan, and Pakistan’s Minister of Kashmir Affairs and spoke of the “growing concern among civil society groups about human rights crisis in Indian-occupied Kashmir in the areas of social, political, cultural, religious and economic rights. She accused Indian of ‘continued occupation of [certain areas of] Kashmir.”[17]

    Malhotra and Neelakandan further discuss observation of Muhammed Sadiq, a Muslim and the editor of a Kashmiri news portal, on Chatterji’s lopsided statements and activities that find place in the hands of Islamic terrorists:

    [Angana Chatterji] announced the formation of the ‘International Peoples’ Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Indian Administered Kashmir’ on 5 April in Srinagar. Interestingly, this organization too insists that the focus of HR investigations should be on the Indian side of Kashmir and not in PoK too. Moreover, this is a fault-finding mission. Its only aim is to slam the Indian security forces, further highlight HR issues and vitiate the situation.[18]

    Thus, such academics continue to portray India as a land of Hindu savages and undemocratic state policies and try to erase the lines between the very real Islamic terrorism and what they call equally horrible ‘human rights violations’ against Muslims, Christians and Dalits. This seems to justify terrorist attacks on India as well-deserved.[19] Malhotra and Neelakandan remark the views of Julian Duin, the religion editor of Washington Times in the aftermath 2008 Mumbai terror attacks on India: “The terrorist assault – this time by Muslims – on Mumbai later in the year, highlighted the powderkeg (sic) India has become and how often in this Hindu-majority country, the oppressed don’t get a lot of justice. The perpetrators in Orissa have gone unpunished.”[20]

    Thus, biased research by the likes of Chatterji fluidly translates into the view of mainstream media.

    Angana Chatterji | "The Forum of Intentional Liars"
    [HR][/HR]

    With so many willing 'Jaichands' who needs enemies?
     
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  10. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    I just visited the "The Forum of Intentional Liars" and it looks like a honeypot for all frustrated formerly feudal and now disenfranchised lords, and their scions.

    I saw this interesting article: "Do you think NRIs (non-Resident Indians) are slaves of corporate America that are motivated by issues of exploitation and oppression of “desis” and others in the US?"

    Looks like someone is jealous of NRIs, but give him half a chance to go to USA, and watch him take to his heels! :rofl:
     
  11. dhananjay1

    dhananjay1 Regular Member

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    I don't keep pdf copies of all the nonsense that came out of Romila Thapar and then cite them to each and every looser who asks for references. What I have probably read or probably haven't read is beyond your ability to grasp. Labels like 'Marxist', 'Maoist', 'socialist' are used interchangeably by communist through out their history. I don't really care which particular title they adopt for themselves, the content of their rhetoric are more or less same. Romilla Thapar and the three retards you have named use the same language with slight variation.

    If this was your attempt to sound clever, it was a pathetic one.
     
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  12. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    In other words, you haven't read any of her work, and have no idea what you are talking about.

    I am not surprised one bit.
     
  13. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    All of the articles I quoted have had ample sources. Plus the owner of the blog is a NRI. "Disenfranchised lords and scions", wow another ad hominem.
     
  14. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    Meera Nanda

    Meera Nanda is a John Templeton Foundation Fellow in Religion and Science (2005–2007), with a Ph.D. from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and an initial training in biology[1]. According to Malhotra and Neelakandan, “She was a visiting fellow at Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi during 2009, and has written several articles and books denouncing Indian culture as inherently anti-scientific and accusing Indian nation builders of paving the way for pseudo-science and even having a Nazi mindset.”[2]

    “Another of Nanda’s article – ‘Calling India’s Freethinkers’, accuses Swami Vivekananda and Bankim Chandra (forefathers of the Indian national resurgence) of the ‘cardinal sin’ of trying to appropriate modern scientific thought for Hinduism. All attempts to investigate Hinduism in the light of science are declared to be linked to Hindutva, including works by the ‘apologists associated with the Ramakrishna Mission and Aurobindo Ashram’”.[3] “Links between Indian culture and science resonate with ‘deeply Hindu and Aryan supremacist overtones’.”[4] “Nanda has supported Protestantism as being scientific, while describing Hinduism as the exact opposite.”[5] In an article in Open Magazine, Nanda comes down hard on Hinduism and Yoga and tries to destroy any link between the two. She adds: “Far from being considered the crown jewel of Hinduism, yogic asanas were in fact looked down upon by Hindu intellectuals and reformers—including the great Swami Vivekananda—as fit only for sorcerers, fakirs and jogis”.[6] Has Nanda ever read the writing of Vivekananda and other great spiritual giants of India? This is doubtful, because just a cursory look at Swami Vivekananda’s work on Raja Yoga shows ‘Yama, Niyama, Asana [Emphasis Added], Pranayama, Pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana, and Samadhi are the steps in Raja-Yoga…[7]. Why then, did Nanda choose to ignore this fact?

    According to Nanda, “…the physical aspects of yoga were hybridised (sic) with drills, gymnastics and body-building techniques borrowed from Sweden, Denmark, England, the United States and other Western countries. These innovations were creatively grafted on the Yoga Sutras…”[8] At another instance, Nanda has the following to say about Hindus’ claim on Yoga:

    Indeed, if any Hindu tradition can at all claim a patent on postural yoga, it is these caste-defying, ganja-smoking, sexually permissive, Shiva- and Shakti-worshipping sorcerers, alchemists and tantriks, who were cowherds, potters and suchlike. They undertook great physical austerities not because they sought to achieve pure consciousness, unencumbered by the body and other gross matter, but because they wanted magical powers (siddhis) to become immortal and to control the rest of the natural world.[9]

    In an inherent lack of context and an utter disregard for facts, Nanda cherry picks information and splice data together to conjure up a thesis.

    “The India Today review of her latest book (The God Market: How Globalization is Making India More Hindu, Random House, 2009) summarized succinctly her attitude towards India and Hinduism thus: ‘Meera Nanda doesn’t like India. And she hates popular Hinduism with even greater passion.’”[10]

    When confronted by Hindus with sources that question her ‘research’, Nanda simply labels these individuals as ‘Hindu Nationalists’, a practice all too common within the Marxists/Communist circles.

    Nanda’s writings are frequently featured on South Asian Citizens Web (SACW)[11], a site founded and run by one of FOIL’s old time members.
     
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  15. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    ^^
    :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: These people are idiots that is all I can say at the best :lol:
     
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  16. dhananjay1

    dhananjay1 Regular Member

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    You can declare yourself king of England and lord of the flying pigs but it doesn't mean anything to anyone outside your own fantasy world. One pathetic attempt to sound clever was enough, you don't have to continue it.
     
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  17. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    The bhodromohila Angana Chatterji was also the lover of a Dr. Ghulam Nabi Fai of Kashmiri American Council. Later it was revealed by US intelligence that this Fai was a long standing double agent for the ISI.
     
  18. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Typically I ignore motel-chhaap tramps, but even a cursory response is a welcome exception.

    Ouch! Did that ad hominem hurt? Then why did you start using ad hominems in the first place? You have been indulging in ad hominems since more than a year now. Now why complain?
     
  19. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    Ok. I will use report function from now on! BTW can you delete the post I made earlier?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  20. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Deleted several post. Now let's have a healthy debate.
     
  21. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    We clearly need some phoren members on dfi so we can argue them instead of fighting amongst ourselves.
     
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