Brahmaputra diversion by China: How should India respond?

johnee

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yes you are right,secularism always doesn't mean appeasing the minorities,but look at the following flow of things-----1-babri masjid brought down,2-gujrat riots,3-pak brings up muslim discrimination and kash,4-bjp talks of ram rajya,5-bjp talks of bringing up ram mandir at the place of babri,6-pak once again wd get a chance to bring back those issues if bjp was elected,thankfully they are not.,what does thease suggest????.............................bout environmental problems due to the project--------this things sd be brougt upon by proffesionals,not the vishya hindu parishad,if asked this people won't be able to utter a word more,clearly they lack proper and complete knowledge on the issue................hindus in india don't have to give up their religion,they just have to be more clear minded bout where to bring in religion.
Mate,
If India is going to be thinking only in terms of what others(particularly Paks) will say about our internal matters, then we are doomed for sure. Pak uses all kinds of excuses. They want us to believe that terrorism in India started with destruction of Babri structure, but that is not true. Nor is it true that Gujarat riots or Mumbai riots are the reason for increase in terrorism in India. ISI has created jihadi groups that cultivate youngsters(naive/misguided/dejected/rotten....etc) in the name of religion or by making them believe that their religion is under attack. This has absolutely nothing to do with anything BJP(or Congress, third front and Left) has done.
And for record, Pakistan has more sectarian violence than India. More muslims get killed in Pakistan than in India(though the number of Muslims is roughly the same). So, stop looking at our internal matters from Pak's point of view. It is your argument that is flawed. You are saying that Pak will be allowed to bring up our internal issues if BJP comes to power?!? Who comes to power is completely our internal issue and Pak cant do squat about it. Pak had military dictators coming to power and India dealt with them. Pak has taliban taking jiziya from its Sikh minorities. Pak has a record of Nuclear proliferation, Pak has been formenting terrorism in India from the land that it controls. Yet, India has dealt with them.
As for VHP, it is clear that you have no idea about them and further you look down upon them. But to assume that they are dim-witted thugs is not right. Dont have pressumptions about others without knowing all the facts. As a matter of fact, some of the ppl in VHP/RSS are PhDs, Lawyers......etc.

btw,i still support india's stand on our nukes,atleast we dont have reports coming out every day questioning security and prolification,we had to show the world ,we have nukes ,and we did that in 1998,thats enough:bye.....thnx:mornin:
Mate, you are too concerned with what world(even Paks) will say. That is a wrong attitude(specially in a dog eat dog world). There are reports about possiblities of Pak's nukes getting into terrorists' hands. Has Pak lost anything due to it? Pak's aid got trebled! India's nukes are not in any danger. What have we gained? US want us to sign CTBT and NPT! Being a good boy has not earned us anything, nor will it do in future. We need to look out for interests and not for a pat on the back by the 'world'.
 

Ray

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India has to understand its own interests and thereafter work assiduously in pursuing the same.

While continuing to being a responsible nation in the international comity of nations, we must not be deterred by what other nations feel about us or pander to their (other nations’) interests.

Unfortunately, on the surface, it appears that we are still floundering in identifying our national interests, be it any political party running the govt.

While there is much talk about India becoming a global powerhouse, we continue to pursue populist policies that appear caring for the poor and yet the sops rarely reaches the poor in the measure it is intended to do. If heavily subsidised goods and services are doled out, then where are the finances to speed India towards being a global powerhouse? In fact, freebies are an insult to the ingenuity of man and a blow to the concept of dignity of labour! NREGS is, however, a scheme that has merit, but it is badly administered and politicians and local administrators are believed to be making a killing. Statistics are flaunted to show the downward trend in inflation and yet, at the same time, prices shoot trough the ceiling!!

We speak of protecting our sovereignty and national territorial integrity and at the same time fail to buy the wherewithal to kit our forces to deliver. We talk of demilitarising Siachen and Kashmir just to appease foreign nations, knowing fully well that it would put India in dire straits, given the mischief Pakistan is capable of doing!!

Therefore, we are not consistent in our aim to become a nation of reckoning.

In such an environment, if India is to cater to other nations’ interest and worry as to what they will feel about India, I am afraid we would be making greater mistakes than what we are already doing.

Does it matter to us if Pakistan feels that Kashmir is the cornerstone to their having peace with India or for that matter, Pakistan becoming a desert if India build minor dams on the rivers of Kashmir and which are within the clauses of the Indus Water Treaty?

All this brouhaha of Pakistan turning a desert is a sleight of hand to garner international support for their demand that Kashmir should be a part of Pakistan, they having failed to annexe it or disturb it seriously with her terrorists.

Nuclear war? A laughable thought. They will be vaporised when we retaliate, we having a policy of No First Strike.

Pakistan will collapse under its own contradictions!

We should not bother as to what they say or do.
 

Singh

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Sino-Indian water divide

Sino-Indian water divide

China’s hydro-engineering projects and plans are a reminder that Tibet is at the heart of the India-China divide. Tibet ceased to be a political buffer when China annexed it nearly six decades ago. But Tibet can still become a political bridge between China and India

As China and India gain economic heft, they are drawing ever more international attention at the time of an ongoing global shift of power to Asia. Their underlying strategic dissonance and rivalry, however, usually attracts less notice.

As its power grows, China seems determined to choke off Asian competitors, a tendency reflected in its hardening stance toward India. This includes aggressive patrolling of the disputed Himalayan frontier by the People’s Liberation Army, many violations of the line of control separating the two giants, new assertiveness concerning India’s northeastern Arunachal Pradesh state — which China claims as its own — and vituperative attacks on India in the state-controlled Chinese media.

The issues that divide India and China, however, extend beyond territorial disputes. Water is becoming a key security issue in Sino-Indian relations and a potential source of enduring discord.

China and India already are water-stressed economies. The spread of irrigated farming and water-intensive industries, together with the demands of a rising middle class, have led to a severe struggle for more water. Indeed, both countries have entered an era of perennial water scarcity, which before long is likely to equal, in terms of per capita availability, the water shortages found in the Middle East.

Rapid economic growth could slow in the face of acute scarcity if demand for water continues to grow at its current frantic pace, turning China and India — both food-exporting countries — into major importers, a development that would accentuate the global food crisis.

Even though India has more arable land than China — 160.5 million hectares compared to 137.1 million hectares — Tibet is the source of most major Indian rivers. The Tibetan plateau’s vast glaciers, huge underground springs and high altitude make Tibet the world’s largest freshwater repository after the polar icecaps. Indeed, all of Asia’s major rivers, except the Ganges, originate in the Tibetan plateau. Even the Ganges’ two main tributaries flow in from Tibet.

But China is now pursuing major inter-basin and inter-river water transfer projects on the Tibetan plateau, which threatens to diminish international-river flows into India and other co-riparian states. Before such hydro-engineering projects sow the seeds of water conflict, China ought to build institutionalised, cooperative river-basin arrangements with downstream states.

Upstream dams, barrages, canals, and irrigation systems can help fashion water into a political weapon that can be wielded overtly in a war, or subtly in peacetime to signal dissatisfaction with a co-riparian state. Even denial of hydrological data in a critically important season can amount to the use of water as a political tool. Flash floods in recent years in two Indian frontier states — Himachal Pradesh and Arunachal Pradesh — served as an ugly reminder of China’s lack of information-sharing on its upstream projects. Such leverage could in turn prompt a downstream state to build up its military capacity to help counterbalance this disadvantage.

In fact, China has been damming most international rivers flowing out of Tibet, whose fragile ecosystem is already threatened by global warming. The only rivers on which no hydro-engineering works have been undertaken so far are the Indus, whose basin falls mostly in India and Pakistan, and the Salween, which flows into Burma and Thailand. Local authorities in Yunnan province, however, are considering damming the Salween in the quake-prone upstream region.

India’s government has been pressing China for transparency, greater hydrological data-sharing, and a commitment not to redirect the natural flow of any river or diminish cross-border water flows. But even a joint expert-level mechanism — set up in 2007 merely for “interaction and cooperation” on hydrological data — has proven of little value.

The most dangerous idea China is contemplating is the northward rerouting of the Brahmaputra River, known as Yarlung Tsangpo to Tibetans, but which China has renamed Yaluzangbu. It is the world’s highest river, and also one of the fastest-flowing. Diversion of the Brahmaputra’s water to the parched Yellow River is an idea that China does not discuss in public, because the project implies environmental devastation of India’s northeastern plains and eastern Bangladesh, and would thus be akin to a declaration of water war on India and Bangladesh.

Nevertheless, an officially blessed book published in 2005, Tibet’s Waters Will Save China, openly championed the northward rerouting of the Brahmaputra. Moreover, the Chinese desire to divert the Brahmaputra by employing “peaceful nuclear explosions” to build an underground tunnel through the Himalayas found expression in the international negotiations in Geneva in the mid-1990s on the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT). China sought unsuccessfully to exempt PNEs from the CTBT, a pact still not in force.

The issue now is not whether China will reroute the Brahmaputra, but when. Once authorities complete their feasibility studies and the diversion scheme begins, the project will be presented as a fait accompli. China already has identified the bend where the Brahmaputra forms the world’s longest and deepest canyon — just before entering India — as the diversion point.

China’s ambitions to channel Tibetan waters northward have been whetted by two factors: the completion of the Three Gorges Dam, which, despite the project’s glaring environmental pitfalls, China trumpets as the greatest engineering feat since the construction of the Great Wall; and the power of President Hu Jintao, whose background fuses two key elements — water and Tibet. Hu, a hydrologist by training, owes his swift rise in the Communist Party hierarchy to the brutal martial-law crackdown he carried out in Tibet in 1989.

China’s hydro-engineering projects and plans are a reminder that Tibet is at the heart of the India-China divide. Tibet ceased to be a political buffer when China annexed it nearly six decades ago. But Tibet can still become a political bridge between China and India. For that to happen, water has to become a source of cooperation, not conflict. — DT-PS

Brahma Chellaney is Professor of Strategic Studies at the Centre for Policy Research in New Delhi

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 

Daredevil

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China begins building dam on its side of the Brahmaputra

Pranab Dhal Samanta Posted online: Thursday , Oct 15, 2009 at 0253 hrs



New Delhi : So far, Beijing has denied any plans to build a dam on its side of the Brahmaputra river. But strong evidence has now emerged to suggest that China has begun constructing a dam on the river which it calls the Yarlungzangbo (better known as Yarlong Tsangpo to the Tibetans).

It’s learnt that the Zangmu hydroelectrical project was inaugurated on March 16 this year and the first concrete was poured on April 2.

The 1.138-billion Yuan (1 Yuan = $0.15) project has been awarded to a five-company consortium with China Gezhouba Group along with NIDR (China Water Northeastern investigation, design and research) involved in its construction.

Involved in its financing is the Huaneng Corporation, one of China’s biggest power companies.

From preliminary information available with India, the Chinese plan to have a series of five medium-sized dams along the river in the Nanshan region of Tibet at Zangmu, Jiacha or Gyatsa, Zhongda, Jiexu and Langzhen.

Of this, sources said, detailed information so far is available on the Zangmu dam.

This dam is expected to generate 540 MW; its height will be 116 m and length 389.5 m, it’s 19 m wide at the top and 76 m wide at the bottom.

According to information that is being circulated by companies involved in the project, the Zangmu dam is a gravity dam with water-blocking structures which could mean construction of a reservoir.

Some academic articles had set off fears of hydroelectric projects and water diversion plans on the Brahmaputra in Tibet about three years ago.

A worried India, as a lower riparian country, had taken up the matter with China. Beijing had then assured New Delhi that these were just articles in the press and “no concrete decision” had been taken.

The assumption here was that China was only looking at tributaries of the Brahmaputra but the Zangmu dam project is well after all tributaries have joined the river.

The two countries had then agreed to establish a joint mechanism for sharing technical data on rivers like the Brahmaputra and Sutlej.

This exchange, however, has been restricted to flood season data and Indian efforts to widen the scope of information-sharing have not moved forward.

China, sources said, never informed India about its plans or this specific project.

Significantly, according to information received here, the Nanshan Regional Administration issued orders as early as October 30, 2007 for evacuation of people from the area from November 1, 2007.

According to the order, the dam site will include all areas up to 3310 m above sea level and people inhabiting these heights were asked to vacate.

Earlier this month, the Gezhouba group is said to have gone public saying it had successfully completed setting up the concrete feed line.

Satellite images from February show construction activity in Zangmu and Jiacha with evidence of labour quarters.

The consequences to India from this project and the others about which little information is known — can only be ascertained if more information is shared and teams are allowed to access the site.

It’s learnt that the tendering process for this entire project is being overseen by the Three Gorges International Corporation.

Along with India, Bangladesh is another country that would be affected by dams and has often voiced concerns in this regard.
 

Koji

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Does anyone have the date of completion for this dam?
 

qilaotou

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The dam will be finished by the end of 2015. It's being built on a branch river of Yaluzhangbu that passes down to Sichuan province.

The water of the branch river does not flow into India or Bangladesh.
 

badguy2000

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well, even if such a dam were being built, it would have no business with India ,I think....
 

badguy2000

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Cutting of water is a violation of UN codes.
well,

1. Indian in fact is suffering over flood from Yarlungzanbo River every year . a dam on the River is in fact is good to india too, because it help control flood.


2.India itself has a bad record of fair distribution water of Ganges River with
Bangladesh

So ,I feel it is very hypocritical that India cry for a chinese dam on Yarlungzanbo River when India built dams on Gange River regarless of the protests from Bangladesh..
 

Mohan

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well,

1. Indian in fact is suffering over flood from Yarlungzanbo River every year . a dam on the River is in fact is good to india too, because it help control flood.
Yeah and have flash floods when you cannot hold the water.

Also see the western side of India for the fair record.
 
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well,

1. Indian in fact is suffering over flood from Yarlungzanbo River every year . a dam on the River is in fact is good to india too, because it help control flood.


2.India itself has a bad record of fair distribution water of Ganges River with
Bangladesh

So ,I feel it is very hypocritical that India cry for a chinese dam on Yarlungzanbo River when India built dams on Gange River regarless of the protests from Bangladesh..
That was not Ganges River that was Tipaimukh Dam and India stopped it.
Bangladesh, India: No To Tipaimukh Dam | GroundReport
 

Koji

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The water of the branch river does not flow into India or Bangladesh.
Here is where you are wrong. They are daming the primary river, AFTER all the tributaries have joined. So it does affect India and Bangladesh greatly.
 

qilaotou

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Here is where you are wrong. They are daming the primary river, AFTER all the tributaries have joined. So it does affect India and Bangladesh greatly.
I got the location, went over there with google earth and checked the rivers. What have you done? What's your location of the particular dam? Show us that you are right.
 

Daredevil

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I got the location, went over there with google earth and checked the rivers. What have you done? What's your location of the particular dam? Show us that you are right.
Why don't you post the co-ordinates of the location, so that we can also check as to where the dam is being constructed, before the tributaries join or after the tributaries join.
 

Koji

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I got the location, went over there with google earth and checked the rivers. What have you done? What's your location of the particular dam? Show us that you are right.
From the article.

"The assumption here was that China was only looking at tributaries of the Brahmaputra but the Zangmu dam project is well after all tributaries have joined the river."

By the way, where is Rage? I remember him saying that India would "fast-track" their dam building on the Brahmaputra. Looks like it hasn't happened.
 

bengalraider

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well,

1. Indian in fact is suffering over flood from Yarlungzanbo River every year . a dam on the River is in fact is good to india too, because it help control flood.


2.India itself has a bad record of fair distribution water of Ganges River with
Bangladesh

So ,I feel it is very hypocritical that India cry for a chinese dam on Yarlungzanbo River when India built dams on Gange River regarless of the protests from Bangladesh..
India has a Ganges water sharing treaty with Bangladesh, which we follow sure the treaty has it's opponents in both countries but the rules remain rigid
http://www.indianembassy.org/policy/foreign_policy/ganga. htm

as far as Bangladesh is concerned the dam on the Brahmaputra shall hurt it way more than it shall hurt India, Bangladesh depends on the Brahmaputra for navigation , irrigation , drinking water and industry any dam on the river has the potential to break the Bangladeshi economy's back.Also china has no water sharing treaty with India or Bangladesh & has not consulted India and Bangladesh about the dam which makes the dam illegal according to
the 1997 UN watercourse convention i am attaching a copy read article 5 point 1 and article 6.
 

qilaotou

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From the article.

"The assumption here was that China was only looking at tributaries of the Brahmaputra but the Zangmu dam project is well after all tributaries have joined the river."

By the way, where is Rage? I remember him saying that India would "fast-track" their dam building on the Brahmaputra. Looks like it hasn't happened.
Do you have an idea where Zangmu is? Ask google.
 

tigerhill

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How can India counter the threat of China building a dam on Brahmaputra

Before I make this post, I would like to point out that I was unsure of where to post this.This is a serious issue and I thought it deserved importance and was more than just an ASEAN AND FAREAST ISSUE

Firstly, as we all know , China is planning a major hydel project on the Brahmaputra

I would like to discuss on this tread , its significant ramifications for India, Best case and worst case scenarios for India.
It would also be very kind of the members if they could share how India plans to minimise this threat, or reduce the damage it may cause to the north east.

Most importantly
How can we respond to this major threat ,as it is almost cutting off our water supply in the north east
 
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Come clean on Brahmaputra dam, India tells China - dnaindia.com


Come clean on Brahmaputra dam, India tells China

New Delhi: India continued its verbal offensive against China on Thursday, saying it was opposed to the construction of a dam on the Brahmaputra, the lifeline of the north-eastern states, and was verifying if the project was underway despite denials by Beijing. In short, New Delhi made it clear that it could no longer take China's assurances at face value.

A media report on Thursday said China was constructing a massive dam on the river and that the project was inaugurated in March. The ministry of external affairs (MEA) does not generally react to newspaper reports, but with increasing strain in ties between the neighbours, India is not brushing these allegations under the carpet.

"The Indian side has taken up with the Chinese side reports about the construction of a large dam or diversion project on the Brahmaputra," MEA spokesman Vishnu Prakash said, referring to the meeting of an expert-level mechanism set up in November 2006.

New Delhi's understanding was that no work would be initiated till an agreement was reached to ensure that the diversion of the Brahmaputra waters would not adversely affect the north-eastern states.

The MEA statement went into the details of the media report, saying: "The Brahmaputra flows for about 1,625 km inside the Tibet Autonomous Region of the People's Republic of China and for a further 918 km inside India.

"The Chinese side has categorically denied that there is a plan to build any large-scale diversion project on the Brahmaputra... We are looking into the said newspaper report to ascertain whether there are recent developments that suggest any change in the position conveyed to us by the Government of China."

But if India's message was strong, Wednesday's editorial in the Chinese Communist Party mouthpiece Peoples Daily was scathing. India is "obsessed" with a "hegemonic mentality" and refuses "to drop [its] pretentious airs when dealing with neighbours like Pakistan", the editorial said.

It also sarcastically commented on India's developing ties with the United States, saying New Delhi followed a policy to "befriend the far and attack the near". The editorial said "resentment still simmered" from India's wars with China and Pakistan. "If India really wants to be a superpower, such a policy is short-sighted and immature."

Business leaders on either side of the border are worried about the deteriorating Sino-Indian ties. FICCI on Thursday said it was apprehensive that the growing economic links between the two countries would be affected because of fraying relations.

"FICCI notices that strident statements have been issued increasingly by China lately, and as a result if the overall atmosphere of India-China relations is queered, then business and economic relations can't but get affected," said FICCI president Harsh Pati Singhania.

FICCI quoted statistics showing bilateral trade was inching towards the $45-billion mark, making China India's largest trading partner.
 

no smoking

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Do you have an idea where Zangmu is? Ask google.
Sorry to interrupt your discussion.

You know, most people coming here is to share their knowledge and learn new knowledge. So, if you know sth that is unknown to other members, sharing it with others will help people to understand the problem better.

Furthermore, the one making a claim has the reponsibility to provide the direct link or quotation to support the claim. As my understanding, this is the underline agreement in the forum.

So, please provide your evidence, or just make the exlaination as Koji. Thanks
 

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